Saturday, November 24, 2007

CIO Bootcamp

Please Note: There is a new version of this post. Please see CIO Bootcamp--Revised and Updated for an easier to read version of this post. For that reason, I have turned commenting off on this post.

CIO Bootcamp was derived when I had written a couple of posts to our BW Yahoo group on CIO (Cry It Out).

I think you need to do CIO for every nap and for bedtime. With my first child, I tried just at night, but that ended up making no sense; why rock him sometimes and expect him to do it himself others? I think in the CIO case, it is best to do it all at once rather than trying to ease into it.

It is SO HARD to listen to your baby cry. It put me in tears so many times with my first and the second time around was easier because I knew the benefits, but I still had my days of tears.

Know that the difficulties you experience are normal--especially if you start after you have soothed them for some time. BW says some crying is normal, but I don't think they really give an honest picture of what to expect. It is harder than they make it seem.

Also know that if you stick with it, it will get better. However, you also will have difficult days interspersed for some time. My little girl would have days with no crying, then a day where she cried at least thirty minutes for every nap when I did nothing differently. But as time goes, the hard days get fewer between and eventually are a thing of the past. You will think back to this time and remember how hard it was but realize how worth it it is. You will also think it wasn't that long after all and the benefits were worth the heartache. That is easier said on the happy side of things than at the beginning of the process.

Here is a synopsis of Kaitlyn’s CIO experience. For about 5 days she just slept basically around the clock, but when she was a week old, I started working to keep her awake after eating and putting her to bed awake. The first time, she cried between 5-10 minutes. Then she went days without crying at all. Then she started having some long crying sessions. Then she would go back to not crying at all. Then she started crying 20 minutes. Then down to 5 minutes.

I don't think you should do CIO at all if you aren't going to stick to it. If a baby knows they will be "rescued" at some point, they will cry until they are. Go big or go home, as the saying goes. Here is a list of basic tips I would have for CIO.


  • First, be sure you are both ready (see Should You Do CIO? post: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/should-you-do-cio.html)
  • Also, please take precaution about possible medical problems. Be sure your baby does not have reflux or bad gas.
  • Get to know the timing of your child's naps. The younger the baby, the more crucial it is to get them down at the right moment. As they get older, down-to-the-minute isn't as important, but timing is still important for my two year old. He won't cry if I put him down late, but he will play in his bed for X amount of time rather than going right to sleep. We've all experience the second wind or being too tired to fall asleep. So get to know your child's cue. This is a hard thing and unfortunately can require some trial and error on your part. My daughter would always yawn. My son would get fussy. Your child should get tired around the same time--for example my daughter stayed up for about an hour each wake time, so I started watching her at 50 minutes like a hawk so I didn't miss the sign. You also don't want to put them down too early. A young baby may only be able to do 45 minutes of waketime—including feeding. Take note of the timing of everything and how baby responds. Unfortunately, there is some trial and error here.
  • If you know you are putting baby down too late, don't do it. The baby will just cry and never go to sleep and you will eventually get baby. I wouldn’t put my 12 week old down if I knew I had missed my window--I would put her in the swing. And at 7 months, if she has missed a nap and needs to sleep, I will often put her in the swing just because I think the more tired she is the harder it will be for her to fall asleep without difficulty.
  • If your baby will be swaddled, I would do that at such a young age. My first wouldn't ever be swaddled, but my second would and is still swaddled partially. Around 3 or 4 weeks she protested the full swaddle, so she know has one arm out. The problem is that their arms will fling out and scare them awake, so if you can swaddle, it does help.
  • I like to sing the same lullaby every time once they are in bed. This lets them know it is bedtime, plus it is something you can take with you everywhere you go. That is nice when you aren't at your home, and also nice once you move them into a bed and out of the crib--it will come quicker than you think. You could also rock your child so they are more drowsy to start, but don't rock beyond the point of the sign of sleepiness. Rocking can be a good thing to do with younger babies, even if it is just for your piece of mind; then you know you did something to help.
  • When doing CIO, I would check on my daughter at some point if she hadn’t gone to sleep. Figure out your child's reaction to your interference. My first wouldn't ever go to sleep if I made my presence known after I put him down. And, if I ever got him out of bed after he had been crying, naps would be AWFUL for a long time afterward. He hated to sleep. He would even fuss to go to sleep in a swing. That is when you know you have a hates-to-sleeper. My daughter, on the other hand, did well with my presence if she had been crying for a while. When she was younger, I would go in after 20 minutes. At 11 weeks I waited 30. I didn’t pick her up because that made it worse for her. I pat her and tell her to go to sleep. Then she usually gets really mad when I leave but is asleep within 10 minutes. Now, this did not work for my son. If I ever checked on him, he would not go to sleep at all. For him it was better to be left alone. Once I left the room, I needed to leave him be. So, this is something else that you need to learn about your child.
  • If my daughter had not gone to sleep after an hour, I moved her to the swing so she could get some sleep before the next feeding. This way we avoided getting overly sleepy and getting way ahead of schedule. For her, if she hadn’t fallen asleep at that point, she just wouldn’t. This works for her, but for my son, that was asking for trouble. If I ever did that, he would cry double time for his next nap (and often for every nap for a couple of days) because he knew if he cried long enough he would get out of it. I don't know if it was his personality or if it was because I started him at 9 weeks so he knew there were other options. I started my daughter CIO at one week, so to her this is just the way it is.
  • I personally think that a swing is a better alternative to you rocking or doing something to help--then the baby is still "alone" and not relying on you and knowing you are doing it for them. 8- Expect things to get better, then to get bad again, then better, then bad. You will have dream days. Then you will have days that make you wonder what on earth you are doing and will reduce you to tears. But stick through it. This pattern is true of having a baby CIO at any age, from my observations.
  • With CIO, it is good to not let baby fall asleep (as best you can) while eating. If they do, they aren't quite tired enough to fall asleep while they CIO.
Good luck. Just know it gets better. I believe it is best for the baby, but that is obvious because I do it. Do what you think is best for your baby because you are his mom and no one will know better than you do. If you ever need support through it, let me know. I know it is so hard. I also know it is so worth it. I have a little happy two year old running around me in life who shows me the benefits of BW and a joyful 10 month old who is as content, happy, and pleasant as you could ever imagine a baby to be.

Both of my children got to the point of no crying for naps or bedtime rather quickly. Brayden at 4 months and Kaitlyn at around 8 weeks. She would cry on occasion after that age, but rarely and it usually meant something was wrong. If it was a cry to settle down into a nap, it wasn’t the screaming cry that breaks your heart but more of an off and on and half-hearted cry.

Overall, everything is connected. The better rested they are, the more awake they will be for eating, and the more they eat, the better they will sleep, and the more they are awake, the more tired they will be for sleeping.
If you are in the middle of CIO and need some encouragement, see the post When Does it Get Better? http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/when-does-it-get-better.html
Other CIO Posts:
Reader Questions:
  • AG said...
    My baby is 2.5 months old and I swaddle him in a Miracle Blanket for sleeping while he wears a lightweight sleeper and keep our home at 69 degrees. However, when I let him CIO after his nap has been ruined by the "45 minute intruder" he is completely soaked in sweat - usually just after 10 or 15 minutes. This concerns me since overheating is a SIDS risk. Also, I sometimes think it's useless to let him CIO every nap after the 45 minute intruder has arrived since he has NEVER cried himself back to sleep before the next feeding. Am I accomplishing anything??
    January 7, 2008 9:06 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    If I remember correctly, CIO after going waking early is mentioned in BW II, but not in the first book (my baby is sleeping in the room with the books right now, so I will have to check that later). At that young of an age, 1 hour is an acceptable nap length. at 45 minutes, he is so close to the right time that it might not be worth the crying. You will have to decide what you want to do. I personally would either move him to the swing and see if he will fall asleep or get him up and try to hold him off until it is the next feeding time.
    January 8, 2008 11:13 AM
  • Meredith said...
    We are having a terrible time with this. He gets so upset that he can cry all the way until the next feeding - even if it is 2 whole hours. Moving him to the swing or bouncer doesn't work. So, basically I wind up picking him up and feeding him when it is time and he is learning that if he cries long enough, he will be fed. WWYD? Let him cry to sleep, interfering with the feeding, and hope it only happens a few times? Postpone CIO until he is on a 4 hour schedule?? Other options? I am dying! He just cries for all 4 naps (unless the nap is totally assisted, so I know it is not pain/not tired)! I forgot to mention that he is 8 weeks old.
    January 21, 2008 10:27 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    This is how Brayden was. He was 9 weeks old when we started. He would have times he cried right on through to the 2.5 hour mark. The swing, etc. didn't work for him either. I just got him up and fed him when it was time. I would stick with it. It will be SO HARD--I know, I did it. But the payoff will come, and it will come sooner than you think. If he will swaddle, I would do that. Brayden wouldn't, he hated it. I would figure out when you should interfere and work to calm him down, but then leave. Some babies cannot be picked up. Some can't even have any interference. Keep persevering!
    January 21, 2008 10:53 AM
  • David said...
    Hi, my daughter is 8 weeks old and we haven't really had to do CIO yet, at least not for daytime naps--she is a sleeper and when she gets sleepy/fussy I can just put her down and she goes right off to sleep by herself. However, that goes out the window after the 4pm feeding, because she gets very fussy in the evenings, some nights are full blow colic episodes. The fussiness generally starts anywhere between 5pm and 7pm and can go as late as 10pm. So, we tried CIO a few nights when she was much younger, but she never stopped crying--even if you hold her she is crying. I've found that when she really gets going and nothing will calm her, the one thing that seems to work is walking around with her in the baby bijorn, and she will calm down and eventually sleep some. Sometimes I can put her down after that, but not usually (she generally wakes up within 10-15 min of being put down from the carrier). So, generally in the evenings she just kind of naps off and on (in the carrier or in her bed) for short naps between her feedings and then eventually falls asleep for the night sometime between 8:30 and 9:30. I then feed her again around 10:30 and she wakes only once in the night to eat (usually around 3:30). So, my question is, should I worry about doing CIO during these fussy episodes since she seems able to go to sleep on her own otherwise (as demonstrated by her daytime naps), or should I be trying to do it anyway to establish bedtime sleep? It seems kind of cruel to do it since she is obviously so uncomfortable and unhappy during that time of day, but I don't want to develop bad habits either (being helped to sleep at bedtime). Any thoughts?
    January 22, 2008 1:57 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    It seems to me she has it down if she is doing fine for her other naps. It isn't uncommon for a baby to have a fussy time in the evening. I would say continue as your are so long as 1-she remains fussy that time of day and needs you to continue (because she will grow out of that) and 2-you don't see any problems creep up at other naps--if that happens, you know the nighttime routine of holding her is affecting her daytime napping.Have you tried a swing? I know not all babies go for it, but if yours does, that could be another nice alternative for you in the evening.
    January 22, 2008 2:10 PM
    David said...
    I would LOVE it if she would go for the swing, but she is not crazy about it. She will tolerate it for a while, but gets fussy after about 10 minutes in it, and rarely falls asleep in it. It is difficult in the evenings to keep her in that carrier to make and eat dinner, but otherwise she screams. And, if my husband is working nights (about twice a week) or out of town (like he is now) it is SO difficult to get my 3-year-old ready for bed, with the baby either screaming or in the carrier the whole time. I hope that eventually she does start to like the swing, bouncy seat, etc. Right now she doesn't like ANY of them--during waketimes laying her down on a blanket and talking to her is about as much as she can take (she seems to get over-stimulated very easily). Thanks for the thoughts and tips!
    January 25, 2008 10:08 AM
  • artsychic76 said...
    I have this issue too. DD doesn't really like the swing. I'd like her to tho...should I try putting her in it when awake? She DOES like rocking and bouncing when very fussy....I'd think the swing would work too? I hate to have it as a sleep prop tho. Do you find they get more independent at 3 months and don't want you there AT ALL when its time to nap. Maybe I should just leave her alone and walk out of the room to see if she can go to sleep on her own? I find she doesn't like being held when fussy like this...she likes to stretch out and have her pacifier, and if you stand there and try to soothe her, it sometimes makes her really mad! I wonder if that's the signal that she wants to be left alone?
    January 27, 2008 12:55 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    My son didn't like the swing, either. He just learned to sleep. There were some short naps, but eventually he got it and naps became just how I wanted them to be.My son also didn't like to be held when he was mad. He isn't a touchy-type. As he has gotten older, that has become more obvious. Before we started BW, he would get really mad when I rocked him to sleep. He cried just as long in his bed as he did when I rocked him, but he stayed asleep longer if he did CIO than if I rocked him.
    January 27, 2008 1:57 PM
  • mommynik said...
    We are having a similar problem. I am trying to get my 17 wk. son to sleep better naps while CIO'ing at night & naps - trying to put him at 9:00 am nap but he doesn't even make it to 8:00 am some days. So I put him down to nap and then he sleeps about an hour but wakes up tired. So I leave him in there and see if he will settle. It really doesn't work unless I give him pacy, which I am trying not to do anymore. But if I go get him, he is SO sleepy. I want to get him and nurse him, but that won't even be quality eating b/c he's so tired. It sounds like you & BWMom say you just let baby stay in crib and cry until time to nurse again? I guess I should do that? Then we can play and try for the next nap & hope it works out?At night he can put himself to sleep but he wakes & cries several hours later. Even though he is breastfeeding, he is still SO sleepy - he isn't really nursing, he is just getting my comfort. I am so confused!! We have been CIO for about 1.5 weeks. I am in pure turmoil here.
    February 21, 2008 9:08 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Keep in mind that, unfortunately, it gets better before it gets worse. But then it does get better. I only leave my daughter in bed when she wakes early if she is happy. Like I said about nighttime crying, to do CIO for the original nap and then when they wake early from a nap will likely be too much for you. I would work on the original falling asleep and then see if when he gets that down he can be better overall. See this post for ideas for what to do in the meantime:Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html
    February 21, 2008 10:08 AM
  • ckim56 said...
    I have an 8 week old son and just started trying to really stick to CIO and a schedule recently (i had tried CIO since he was 4 weeks but was not consistant) I have been letting him cry in 20 min increments and then i go in and try to give him a pacifier- is this wrong to do, I suppose i'm not really helping him self soothe but sometimes he will suck on it and go right to sleep- so it works. Other times when i dont give it to him he will cry for an hour or more, sometimes screaming. Is this ok to let him do? has anyone else had to do this?? it's terrible to listen to him cry...sometimes even when i pick him up he doesnt calm down...like he's just gotten so upset he can't calm down. Any advice? i would appreciate it.another question- i think this is right according to BW but I'm unsure. I have been doing an evening feeding(7:30/8 pm) and then feed him again before i go to bed (about 10:30) I usually have to wake him though, should i do this or just let him sleep?? he is still getting up in the middle of the night though. usually around 3:30...I am very thankful for ANY advice!!!
    March 26, 2008 6:16 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    You have to decide what you want to do about the pacifier. You can continue to go in and reinsert it if you want to, but be aware that it is likely to be something you have to do for months to come. Some moms do a rule that they will only reinsert once. Like I said, you can do it if you want, but just be aware that it is something that has a chance of happening continually until baby is able to pick it up himself. There is a good post on growingkids.org about pacifiers. That post should help you with that decision. It doesn't lean one way or the other. Your night feedings look just right. That 10:30 feeding is what is called a "dreamfeed."
    March 27, 2008 2:37 PM
  • mommynik said...
    I am trying CIO but it really is rough. I have tremendous guilt b/c I'm the one who held him until 1.5 weeks ago. He is now 17 weeks (yesterday) and our entire household is crazy with sleep-deprivation.I want this to work but he didn't sleep more than 3 hours in a row last night. He cried off and on for about 2. I had this idea that he would start sleeping through the night in like, 4 nights. By what you write that is SO far off. What should our daytime schedule look like? I think if I just work to the schedule then *maybe* we can get to the sleepING nights?
    February 21, 2008 8:35 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    First of all, don't feel guilty! You have always been doing the best with what you knew! The vast majority of mothers and fathers out there are doing what they think to be best for their baby. If what you have been doing isn't working overall for your family, then good for you for looking for a different solution! When I started CIO with Brayden, he was 9 weeks old. I started with all daytime naps and bedtime. But I didn't do CIO in the night. Every time he woke up, I just fed him and put him back to sleep. After about a week of daytime CIO, he was down to one waking a night. I would suggest you do the same. To handle CIO, you need to be emotionally strong, and you can only do that if you get the most sleep you can. Once days get better, nights most likely will follow suit. If not, you can move on to nights. But to take both on at once can be too emotionally taxing! Good luck.
    February 21, 2008 10:02 AM
    mommynik said...
    You give great advice and thank you. I will try the day 1st... you'll see another comment I just posted saying I would start with nights, but scratch that for now.THANK YOU
    February 21, 2008 10:59 AM
    mommynik said...
    I had to write you back & let you know that our nights are MUCH MUCH better & naps are getting easier too. I am not trying to get it perfect just yet, but I am so thankful that my little boy is now only waking twice to nurse in the night (then going straight back to sleep), doing about 11 hours total. I'm also pumping after he nurses to increase my milk supply & I think that in a few more days he won't even have to wake that often, but I really think he is a little hungry still - growing lots. For naps, he is pretty much putting himself to sleep everytime. Sometimes they are only 45 minutes, but we've had a few 1.5 and 2.5 hour naps in there too.I figure this is all new to him, but he is hitting his stride and life is calming down. It took about 4 days & nights of really rough crying and fussing for things to start to balance out. It really doesn't take that long for them to get comfortable on their own. I wish I had done this WEEKS ago, but I think he was really ready for it now.Thank you for your comments and your great blog. I don't think I'm necessarily "baby wise" now, but I am more "mommy wise" and that helps the whole house!
    February 26, 2008 10:22 AM
  • Catherine said...
    Hello,I don't know if this really fits in this section, but I couldn't find the perfect one! :) Just looking for some help with an issue I'm having with my 5 week old son. Here is what is happening, day in and day out:Here is our feed cycle:He eats for 5-10 minutes of very hard sucking, then maybe 5-7 of milder sucking, but not always, then pushes away. He won't eat anymore for 10-12 minutes, then starts doing mild hunger cues. (Slightly jumpy breathing, sticking out his tongue, cooing sounds, sucking on fist, sucking, batting his arms.) I try to get him to eat again, thinking he's still hungry, and he either completely refuses or mildly sucks for 1-2 minutes. I wait another 5-10 minutes, and try again. So our feeds last like an hour- 15-20 minutes he's eating pretty constantly, then 10 min without eating, 1-2 of eating, 10 minutes without eating, 2-3 of eating, etc. Finally after like an hour of this I just stop offering and start waketime. After 10 min. exactly of waketime he starts doing the little cues again. He does this every single feed. I keep him awake for about 30 min total, then put him to sleep.Then I put him down, and he either makes little cooing sounds then cries right away and won't stop crying the entire nap period, cries 35 minutes into the nap after making little noises that whole time, starts crying after 35 min of silence, or falls asleep. (He will usually sleep like 2-3 out of 5 of his daily naps on a really good day, 1 one or none on a bad day) . (And whenever he starts crying, he will not stop the entire nap period.) When you go in when he's crying, he is doing all of the hunger cues, just more seriously. I have been thinking that he's hungry, so I have just been re-feeding him and starting the cycle over when I go in. ( I wait 20 min. after putting him down to go back in, or when he cries after 35 min. into the nap I go right in.) But the same thing then continues. And btw all his diaper signs are totally on track.I just realized that 1.5 hrs. is way too much waketime for a baby his age, didn't know that before, and the book doesn't specify very clearly.Anyway, what's throwing me off is that at the late night feed (11 pm) and during the middle of the night, he eats exactly the same way, then drifts right off into happy sleep and stays asleep for 3-4 hours. So that is what confuses me: he gets the same amount of food during the day as he does at night, but it appears to not be enough- but during the night it lasts him 3-4 hrs.I am just so confused.I am wondering if:1) He is actually hungry. If that's the case then it feels like he never gets full. One day I fed him, short waketime, put him down, he cried, I started the cycle over, and this literally lasted the entire day except for one nap. I was basically feeding him every 1.5 to 2 hrs. It was awful.2) He is actually doing tired signs and I have just been overstimulating him with way too much waketime. Have been cutting it back to 30 min total, and he cries in crib for naps, won't sleep, but calms when you hold him, even though he keeps doing little cues. Then he'll scream as soon as you put him back in the crib and cry the duration of the nap period. Does he just need to learn to self soothe?3) He needs to suck longer because he nurses so efficiently? Maybe he needs a pacifier during day for some time after feedings? If that's true though, I can't figure out why he wouldn't need it at night. Any thoughts anyone has would be seriously appreciated!!!Catherine Slezinger
    February 27, 2008 9:23 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    1-If he is getting a full feed before he pulls off, he shouldn't be hungry 10 minutes later. Do you nurse from both sids at each feeding? Figuring this out can be so hard, especially your first time around. :) My son took over an hour to nurse for every feeding, including night. I didn't start BW until 9 weeks, but at 3 weeks old, I decided he could go at least 2 hours between feedings. I made him wait that long. Once I started BW and did 2.5-3 hours, his nursings got a lot shorter, and he didn't demand them soon after eating. You do have to watch out for growth spurts, but your baby might be in snacking mode. I would also consider possible medical conditions(reflux)and possible food allergies or intolerances from your diet(caffeine, dairy, etc.).Also, I would be sure your milk supply is okay. I don't want to make your paranoid about it, but it is worth looking into just to be sure.2-Probably yes. If he clams down as soon as you pick him up, you know you interfered before he needed it. If he takes a long time to calm down, you know you waited too long to interfere. If he takes a few minutes to calm down, you know you got it just right. Maybe try calming without picking up. Babies are smart, and it sounds like he has figured out if he cries, you will come help him out. 3-That is a good possibility. At night, they can just be tired. They shouldn't be looking for the extra non-nutritive sucking at night (at least,that would be yoru desire), just in the day. At night they sleep, so it is good he has that worked out.Good luck! Let me know if I can clarify any of that.
    February 28, 2008 10:39 AM
    Catherine said...
    Hello,Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate your thoughts. This is such a learning curve for me and my husband!1) I was concerned it was my milk supply at first, so I started pumping and having my husband bottle feed to see how much I was getting, and I found out I had way more than enough just from one side. 2) The last two days instead of starting him over in the cycle when he cried with a new feeding, then wake, etc, I have been letting him cry in the crib. I go in every 15 minutes to burp him, check his diaper, and then put him back down. Do you think I should not pick him up? He has a burp almost every time. The problem is that yesterday he cried through every single nap, so he get no sleep, then did not sleep as long at night as usual. I felt like he was possibly way overstimulated by this point, so after this last feed/wake, I put him in his favorite seat with blankets and rocked him for 10-15 min, and he was sound asleep. I have no problem letting him cry it out but I am wondering if he just got to the point where he was so sleepless he couldn't get himself to sleep no matter what he tried. I guess I need to learn what point to help him get to sleep and what point to just let him cry. Anyway, any further thoughts you have would be so appreciated- I am SO glad I found this blog, it took a lot of online hunting but I'm glad I did.Catherine
    February 28, 2008 11:22 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    It takes time to figure out. You are wise to realize you need to figure out what he needs. It is so individual for each baby. You are going to have to figure out what happens when you interfere. With my son, I could not interfere in the least. I couldn't let him see me check on him, I couldn't get him and move him to the swing, nothing. If I did, it got worse for DAYS. So he was better left alone.With my daughter, I could check on her. I could pick her up and kiss her, whatever. It didn't make it worse. And often, if she wouldn't fall asleep, I would go in and tell her to go to sleep, leave, she would cry really hard for a few seconds, then go right to sleep. I would suggest you don't pick him up unless you find it helps him. More often, I think it just helps the mom, but not the baby :). Some babies might need to be picked up, but my guess would be most need to not be picked up. With my daughter, as outlined in the Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html post, I would put her in the swing if she wasn't falling asleep for her nap. You want them to be well-rested. It is a hard situation to figure out. Like I said, I couldn't do that with my son. But it worked with my daughter. Good luck!
    February 28, 2008 2:33 PM
  • Mom2Cohen said...
    I do want to start full on with CIO and everything. So you think start tonight? Put him down after his last feeding and then what? When he wakes up throughout the night...which he will do I am sure...do I just keep letting him CIO (watching for obvious cues that might mean I should do otherwise of course). Sorry...I am new to the CIO thing but have wanted to do it for quite some time now.
    December 27, 2007 5:02 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Start tonight if you are mentally prepared. I think it is best to start when you are fully in it. If you need a day or two to pump yourself up, do it. Otherwise, there is no time like the present. Be sure to read the CIO bootcamp post found on this blog: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/cio-bootcamp.htmlHe is young enough it is possible he could still need to eat in the night. For now, I would feed him (if that is what you usually do) when he wakes, then put him back down. Hopefully night waking will fix itself as you apply other principles. There are plenty of BW (Babywise) moms out there who have babies who wake at 12 weeks in the night. Prepare yourself for some difficulty--it is so hard to here your LO cry!
    December 27, 2007 5:09 PM
  • Mom2Cohen said... What do you do if he CIO through his entire nap time? We put him down at 3:00 and have gone in to "comfort" (pat on the back) him once and he is still crying at 4:00. He is supposed to get up at 4:30 to eat...what do you think?
    December 28, 2007 3:04 PM
    Plowmanators said... This is what I did with Kaitlyn. I would get her after an hour and put her in the swing to hopefully get some sleep before next feeding.That wouldn't have worked with Brayden. With him, I just got him up and fed him. But I really had to wait until he fell asleep, and sometimes it would only be 5 minutes of sleep, but at least he had fallen asleep.A friend of mine got son up and played with him until feeding time.This is going to take some trial and error. Some kids will be harder to get to sleep if they are gotten before they fell asleep (Brayden). Others do just fine. In my experience, long crying times are totally a normal part of the process. No fun though :( See this post for more info on this method: Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html
    December 28, 2007 3:46 PM
    Mom2Cohen said... Night time is going great. Night two (last night) he slept a total of 11 hours (one 30 minute feeding at 3:00). However, we are really struggling with naps during the day. Basically, he just doesn't want to nap in his crib. We put him down as soon as he shows his first sign of getting tired (we even tried to put him down a bit before we thought he was getting tired), however he just lays in his crib and either coos or cries - sometimes for the full 1 1/2 - 2 hours if we let him. I know that "all or nothing" is best when doing CIO but I am confused about how to get him to take naps. The swing doesn't work either...he just lays in it and looks around (no sleeping - in fact he never really has slept much in his swing). He is definitely crankier during the day right now because he is not getting his usual naps in...any suggestions on how we can accomplish this?
    December 29, 2007 7:40 AM
    Plowmanators said... You are leaving a napping situation that takes the baby from being lulled to sleep to having to do it alone. It is totally normal to have some real difficulty in the beginning. Of course, you want him to be well rested in the day. If the swing isn't working, you could try doing whatever it is you did before. You would really have to watch that, though. That might make him worse because he knows you will come get him eventually. With my first, I had to just leave him there until he fell asleep. There were many days I was reduced to tears because it was so hard for him and me. It is not easy. But stick it out, and payoff will come in the end (and the "end" is closer than it seems).
    December 29, 2007 7:59 AM
  • Amber said...
    Hi...Let me first say that I love, Love, LOVE your blog! It is so helpful and I check it almost every day!I have a question if that is alright? My 3 month old started doing something really strange yesterday!We are CIO, but we started last week. It was going well and then she started screaming in her crib for over 40 min, then laying in her crib just looking around, then start screaming again after about 15 min of looking around. She isn't sleeping at all during the nap. What should I do? I don't want her to get sleep depreived. She is on a 3 hour schedule are is sleeping from about 9 until 6 eat and sleeps until 8:30 - 9:00Please help!Amber
    January 2, 2008 9:29 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    It really is totally normal to have really, really bad days while you are doing CIO. Even my girl, who was quite good at the whole thing and slept on her own from birth, had really bad days where she would just cry and cry. I don't know that there is any one explanation for it. There are possibilities, and those are outlined in the troubleshooting naps post. Just be sure she isn't up too long. It should pass, but it also should come back. If you can do something about the sleep deprivation without destroying the process, you can try that. When Kaitlyn would have her bad days, I would get her after an hour and put her in her swing to finish out the nap time and hopefully be not so tired. That never could have worked with my boy, though. He had to stay in his bed, and if he never went to sleep, he just didn't and we all had to deal with that. If I got him out, he just cried longer and harder for the next nap.
    January 2, 2008 11:09 AM
  • Amy said...
    ok, i know this has not much to do with the general idea of this article BUT... how do you figure out if your baby likes to be swaddled or not? When my daughter was younger she went right to sleep when swaddled. now she can't go to sleep without being swaddled, however she fusses and tries to get out of the swaddle vigorously when i put her in but eventually falls asleep within 5- 15 mins usually. but if i just put her down and dont swaddle her she never falls asleep.. so my guess is she needs the swaddle to fall asleep BUT she looks like she hates it... ahh.. any words of wisdom for me?
    March 12, 2008 2:02 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    My daughter got this way. I had to leave one arm out of the swaddle for a while. See this post, it might spark other ideas for you:Swaddling: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/swaddling.html
    March 12, 2008 2:59 PM
  • Judy said...
    I am starting CIO with my 7 week old son. How long is too long to let the baby CIO? My son can go for 1.5 hours until his next feeding time. When I pick him up to feed him, his face is bright face and his body is drenched in sweat. Should I be sacrificing his naptime so that I can CIO effectively? He will only fall asleep when held. Please advise!
    March 30, 2008 6:34 PM
    Judy said...
    I meant "bright red" in my above post.
    March 30, 2008 6:37 PM
    Kindra said...
    Judy, I know this doesn't really answer your question of "How long is too long?", but I do have a friend who was in your exact position. She was at the point that her 6 week old son wouldn't even let her put him down, and she was constantly holding him and rocking him, during naps, but also when he had his wake time. Some days she couldn't even get something to eat until her husband got home! At 6 weeks she decided to try BW and CIO because she was exhausted. The first night he cried for over 2 hours! She said it was painful to listen to, and she checked on him every 30 minutes to pick him up and calm him down. She knew he was fine and not in pain or anything, because he immediately stopped crying when she picked him up. After two weeks of sticking with BW, he no longer cried when she put him down, he could play independently by himself, and he no longer cried himself to sleep. He was a completely different baby! Just thought that might offer you some encouragement!
    March 30, 2008 7:35 PM
    Judy said...
    Thank you for your encouraging words and sharing your friend's experience. Hopefully I will have a success story to share myself!
    March 31, 2008 9:26 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Yes, Kindra, thanks for sharing that! I would like to expand on something Kindra said. Before I started CIO, I read a book (I can't remember what it was though) about self-soothing. The author (a psychiatrist or psychologist) said that if you go pick your baby up and he calms immediately, you intervened too soon. If you go pick your baby up and he takes a while to calm (10 minutes or more I think), you waited too long to intervene. If you go pick your baby up and he takes about 5ish minutes to calm, you were right on.Now, whether or not you can intervene and to what extend depends on the baby. I could not intervene with my son. If I did, naps got worse for days. I had to just let him cry, much like Kindra's friend. With my daughter, I could go pick her up, calm her, put her back down, and she would cry harder for 5 minutes but then go to sleep. I couldn't go in until she had been in there for 20 minutes though. You have to figure out your child. Unfortunately, it takes some trial and error. Good luck! It does get better. You are totally normal for doubting and worrying; I did the same even with my second. My husband finally said, "are you really not going to do CIO, though?" I said, "no, I know the benefits too well." He then replied, "then stop worrying about it." So, even experienced moms have a hard time with CIO :) The first time around is the hardest. Hang in there!
    March 31, 2008 9:53 AM
  • Rachel said...
    Is it possible that my 6 week old might not like her morning nap because she got plenty of sleep the night before? She slept for a 5 hour block and then fed and then another 2 hours. Now she has screamed the entire morning nap. Not stopping at all.Help!
    April 9, 2008 9:52 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    No, they really need that first nap, and often sooner than they need other naps. Keep it up. There will be hard days during your training. Kaitlyn had one bad day every week (she was relatively easy to sleep train). That one day, she just cried for naps.Be sure she isn't going down too late, be sure she isn't hot/cold/wet/etc. Be sure she doesn't have gas or something. One you have eliminated all problems, just know that bad naps are a normal part of the training process. Hang in there :(
    April 9, 2008 10:53 AM
    Rachel said...
    Everything is fine. She is fed, and changed. I guess my question is HOW LONG does this all last? Im so tired, but want to stay the course and see it out? How long till she stays down for naps?
    April 9, 2008 1:03 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    It depends on your baby and the consistency you are able to provide. I have found that after two weeks of consistency, things get much better. Then two more weeks, you see another great step. After 8 weeks of training, both of my kids had stopped crying all together for naps and nighttime. It does get better! I would suggest you go to the blog index and look through the word to the weary posts (under the topic "Word to the Weary")
    April 9, 2008 10:43 PM
  • jamie9686 said...
    My baby is 5 weeks old. She has been doing well w/ CIO for naps for about a week. We have really not beening let her CIO during the night thus far. We have been feeding her when she wakes up during the night and she usually goes to sleep during feeding...until last night. I let her CIO after her 3:00am feeding. She usually wakes up @ 11:00 to 12:00 for Dreamfeeding, then at 3:00 am, then she wakes at 6 to 7am and I usually end up putting her in bed w/ me until 8 (her waketime). I know this is a bad habit, so I am trying to cut it out now. She woke again this morning and I tried to feed her, but she really didn't seem interested. So I let her CIO. She'll cry for about 5 minutes, then sleep 10, then cry another 3 minutes, then sleep 10, then cry again, then sleep somemore. Am I doing the right thing? Should she be waking this much? Also, I think she is stuck on a three hour routine during the night? What are your thoughts, if so how can I change it?
    April 15, 2008 5:58 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    One thing I would be sure of is that she is getting enough waktime in the day. For a 5 week old, each cycle will only include 30-60 minutes depending on the baby. Enough waketime ensures better night sleeping. I would probably wait until she was at least 7 weeks old to CIO for night. Since I am a week late responding, you should be close (though you could have fixed that by now :).
    April 20, 2008 4:40 PM
  • Kait said...
    What do you do when your baby cries to the next feed, and then you feed him but he hasn't slept yet. Do you just place him directly back in to his crib, or do you have awake time after the feed still?
    May 5, 2008 12:16 PM
    Kait said...
    Just to add to my last comment...I'm on day 1 of CIO with my 8-week-old son and it's going terrible!! He's just cried straight through to the next feed twice now (still going). He has been awake for so long it's scary. He wont go down in a swing. He will fall asleep in the stroller but it's a bit of a hassle to get him all bundled up and in to the stroller and out of our apartment building every time I need to squeeze in some sleep. I will do it if it will help though? I swaddle him (with one hand out because it's the only way it works), and sing him a song and tell him I love him and put him down and he's just screaming his head off. There have been periods of quiet during the screaming bouts, and I've gone to listen at the door and he's still making noises and arms are flailing. He's looking around the room with his eyes wide open. This last time the quiet patch lasted 30 minutes and at one point he sounded happy and started talking to himself but then after 30 minutes, started screaming again. Is this a good sign that he's starting the self-soothing? It sounds like my son is more similar to Brayden than Katelyn from what you've said. He fights naps like crazy and I have little hope that this is going to work. I think I need some reassurance or encouragement that this is worth it!
    May 5, 2008 1:33 PM
    mm said...
    In my experience, I kept him awake for a little bit of time after the feeding. Not sure if it was the right thing to do or not. He now goes down like a champ!
    May 5, 2008 1:34 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Kait,I have to laugh just because I know just how you feel. Know that your feelings are totally normal. Even with Kaitlyn I sometimes wondered if it would work, which was really silly because 90% of the time she was fantastic with NO crying. I had also been through it before...but I still wondered and worried. It will work. You will get better at reading his cues and he will get better at soothing himself. Your experience sounds very similar to my experience with Brayden. We had many naps that were cried through. Be sure to read through all of the word to the weary posts from the blog index (it is the last category). It is definitely worth in in the long run; not just for your baby's sleep now, but it really has great benefits into toddler years and preschool years. I am sure there are benefits beyond, but that is as far as I am so far :)As far as the original question, I did like mm. You have to really watch it. If you think he needs to go right back down after feeding and diaper change, do it. The more tired he is, the harader it will be for him to fall asleep.
    May 5, 2008 2:25 PM
    Kait said...
    Thanks for your comment. It's good to hear that your experience was similar. After I posted, he eventually did fall asleep for 25 minutes, and then woke up right on cue to feed at the 3 hour mark. So I got him up, fed him, and we're starting over now. Do you know if the talking to himself in patches amidst the crying is a way of self-soothing? He seems to be doing that in more frequent bouts as the day goes on, which I'm wondering if it's his way of making progress or not. I haven't read that anywhere else...everyone else seems to say that their babies cry and then just eventually go to sleep! Oh I wish that was mine.
    May 5, 2008 3:31 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    It is possible that he self-soothes by talking to himself. There are a lot of ways of baby's self-soothe. Also, in my experience, people remember CIO better than it actually was.
    May 5, 2008 10:35 PM
    Kait said...
    Okay, so I'm on day 2 and he seems to be taking 45 min to an hour to fall asleep each time, which is progress from yesterday I guess. BUT, he wakes up 25 minutes in to each nap like clockwork. Since he wont take to the swing, what should I do?? I really want to make this work but when he's only napping for 25 minutes and I know that he needs more sleep do I continue to let him CIO?
    May 6, 2008 1:42 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Kait,I wouldn't have him CIO after he has been asleep yet. He is still learning the initial self-soothing, and the mid-nap self-soothe is harder to get through. I would stick with it; it will continue to improve (but it does go back and forth for a while). But when he wakes, I would just get him up and move forward. Be sure to see the waking early post for other ideas other than the swing: Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html
    May 6, 2008 3:49 PM
    Kait said...
    Thanks for your response. This blog is so great, by the way. It's such a great resource. I don't think I could face CIO without it. I just sit here while he's crying and read your blog and it helps pass the time.That's a relief that I shouldn't try to have him go back to sleep after he takes a short nap yet. I'll focus on first things first and tackle that one later. One more question...sorry I'm full of them. Do you know of a lot of people who have had success at this early age (my son is 8 weeks)? I know you said that with Kaitlyn you started right away, but everywhere else I read seems to recommend waiting until 3-4 months for CIO and I can't help but have insecurities that I'm starting too early. Do you know of anywhere that posts success stories?Thanks!
    May 6, 2008 10:29 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Honestly, 3-4 months sounds really late to me. I think that would make it much harder. I started Bradyen at 9 weeks, which I considered late. His CIO training was MUCH harder than my daughters.I don't know of any sites where there is just success stories, but there is a great site called Mayas Mom (mayasmom.com). There is a great Babywise group there. It is private and you need to request membership, but the admins are fast about getting you in. You could join there and post a question about when they started CIO. I did a poll back in January about this topic (http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/poll-results-what-age-did-you-start-cio.html). There aren't a lot of results because the blog was pretty new. I should do the poll again.
    May 7, 2008 9:17 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Oh, and I am glad you can find solace during CIO, it is a hard time :)
    May 7, 2008 9:22 PM
    Amy said...
    I started CIO with Hannah at around 3 weeks and I feel THAT was too late lol!! She is now 4 and a half months and it takes 2 to 5 mins at most of CIO (if at all) before naps and at night when its bed time about 10-25 mins- (which i still feel is a good deal of time). It gets to be where it is not every nap they cry but it took us a while to get there from 3 weeks. It seems like a looonnngg process but it is so worth it to stick it out at any age you start. People can't believe at what a well behaved baby I have, and I didn't realize it until I saw some other babies. Hang in there, its tough, but so worth it.
    May 8, 2008 9:18 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Thanks for that Amy!
    May 8, 2008 11:15 PM
  • abigail's mom said...
    Thank you for your site! It is very helpful.I am trying to do babywise with my first baby girl, Abigail. She is now 5 weeks of age.She generally eats every 3 hours in the morning, and then every 2 hours in the afternoon to evening.(7am, 10am, 1pm, 3pm, 5pm, 7pm, 9pm, 11:30 pm then we let her sleep til she wakes, usually 3:30/4am ... 7am repeat).question 1.most of the time she will go down after her feed, wake, and cry either little (10-15 min)or not at all....however, maybe 2 times a day she cries much longer, on and off nearly up to an hour.what is the longest i should let her cry? i know the book says 15-20 min, but does that mean i go in pick her up calm her down and then start back over until she cries another 15-20 min?if i do that then her sleep will be disrupted for the next cycle making her cranky. however, i am worried that rocking her to sleep will be a sleep prop.so, what is the more important lesson for the baby, to sleep on her own or is it more important to maintain the structue of the schedule and just do whatever i can to get her to sleep after 15-20 min of crying?question 2.how do i know how much wake time is too little or too long? i try to put her down when i see her starting to yawn. is this the point of overstimulation? if she is groggy and wants to sleep immediately after a feeding, then what is the minimal amt of time i need to keep her up.question 3. she consistently needs to eat every 2 hours from 12 pm to around 9pm. i assume its b/c my milk is lower then. i experimented and supplemented with formula during those hours (3pm to 9pm) and she slept more on a 3 hour schedule during those hours. can you think of any reasons why one is significanly better than the other?(either feeding more number of times w/ breast milk, but baby is not getting as long of a nap time VS. supplementing w/ formula which keeps her fuller longer when my breast milk is low and letting her be more on a 3 hour schedule.) doing solely breastmilk i worry she is hungry when she is crying. doing formula i worry that if i continue to do that my milk supply will go down and it would be a vicious cycle, but she is "sticking to the schedule' better with it. i don't want the momentary fix, i want what is better for her schedule in the long run. what would you do?question 4. abigail sometimes wants to stay up for 2 hours straight. she seems soooo awake. she does this every now and then. is this b/c she is not having enough wake time spread throughout the day?
    May 14, 2008 7:33 AM
    Judy said...
    Hi Abigail's mom,Regarding CIO, I had a similiar problem with my son. He would cry for 2 hours almost every time I put him down for a nap. At first, I would let him cry for about 30 minutes and then console him back to sleep. However, things did not get better. I was so drained emotionally and physically. So I made a decision to do CIO hardcore for a month and if it didn't work, I would try something else. I told myself that I couldn't do CIO half heartedly and complain that it didn't work. So I let my son cry for 1-2 hours. On the fourth day, I was ready to quit from all the stress. But that day, things just clicked for him and he slept beautifully without much crying. However, this lasted for only two days and he started to cry again! Because now I knew how good things could be, I stuck with it. There were good days and bad days for about 3 weeks. Now he is consistently taking 1 1/2 - 2 hour naps and I feel like all my hard work was worth it. I know the book says 10-20 minutes but I think that it really depends on the babies personality and tendencies. My son is very stubborn so it took alot more to help him sleep without crying. Hope this helps and good luck!
    May 14, 2008 10:16 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Thanks Judy for your added comment.Here are my answers to your questions: QUESTION ONE: part of her crying longer might have to do with her waketime length. One thing is make sure she does not fall asleep during her waketime (like during nursing). I found my daughter cried more if she had even a short power nap during waketime. Keep a log and really see what waketime length is best for her at different times of day. Most babies that age will have a pretty consistent waketime length, and it is usually around 45 minutes-1 hour. As for length, you will have to decide what is the best approach with her. With my son, he needed to be in there until he was asleep. With my daughter, if she had cried for 20 minutes (later changed to 30), then I would go in, tell her to go to sleep, leave, she would cry harder for a minute then go to sleep. See this post for more: Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html In the beginning, I go for the eat/wake/sleep and go for establishing the metabolism. I also want a nap in there. The post I listed goes into that more.QUESTION TWO: see this post Nap Cues : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/nap-cues.html QUESTION THREE: If you want to continue nursing, I would not supplement with formula on a regular basis. If she has taken a full feeding, then when it comes to naptime, you can be sure she isn't hungry. You are still at a critical point for establishing that milk supply. If it were me, I wouldn't do the formula. When I did feed my kids formula, I always pumped out the same amount they ate so that the milk supply would not be compromised.QUESTION FOUR: Two hours seems really long for a 5 week old. I would say it is possible that she catches a second wind and is ready for more. Good luck!
    May 14, 2008 2:06 PM
  • mommyofthree said...
    My 4 week old cries very hard for quite awhile when put down to sleep but then will quiet for a few minutes and then start the crying again. This can go on and on, but usually after an hour I get him up because we are closing in on another feeding time. He hardly ever just quiets and stays asleep. This makes for frustrating naptimes! Is my "rescuing" him after 3-4 off and on crying episodes making it so he won't ever fall asleep? Thanks!
    May 25, 2008 10:26 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    If you are going in every 3-4 minutes, I would definitely wait longer. Also, figure out if you should at all. With my son, I couldn't. With my daughter, I could, but if I went in too soon, it doomed the nap. At first I had to wait 20 minutes. As she got older, it moved to 30 minutes. I would give him at least 10, but more like 15, before you interfere. Good luck! It is all such a learning process for mom and baby :)
    May 26, 2008 10:21 AM
    mommyofthree said...
    Sorry, that was confusing. I'm not going in every 3-4 minutes, I'm actually not going in at all. He will cry for maybe 15 or 20 minutes, stop for maybe 5 and then repeat this pattern 3 or 4 times. So in total he may cry for 1 - 1.5 hours but with short quiet breaks in between. But never a good chunk of quiet sleeptime. So then after all of that off and on crying it is almost time for him to eat. Does that make sense? So, I am leaving him to CIO, but he never falls asleep! Any suggestions?
    May 26, 2008 11:04 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Have you reviewed the CIO bootcamp? I would look over that and that should give you some ideas. Also, figure out if he needs you to interfere or not. Some do, some don't. Also, be sure his waketime isn't too long. At four weeks, he likely can't do more than 30-60 minutes total sucessfully. Most will be around 45 minutes. Good luck!
    May 26, 2008 2:10 PM
  • Jennie said...
    SUCH a GREAT post! I have a question though. I have a 5 week old and am doing CIO during the day (not successful at all so far and the swing doesn't work either!) but I have a 2 year old that I did Babywise with so I know it is worth it. But my question is if Im doing CIO during the day is it okay if I'm not doing it at night? (since hes only 5 weeks old and I since it isnt working during the day and we all need sleep I can't listen to him cry all night long!) Also, should I also let him CIO when he wakes up early from a nap? (like after 45 min to one hour and there is still an hour left untl his next feeding? (I can't imagine him crying it out after he has already been asleep?)Thanks!
    October 8, 2008 1:49 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Jennie, I always say to start CIO in the day and hope as things improve you won't even have to do night. I don't think at 5 weeks I would do CIO in the middle of a nap.
    October 9, 2008 2:24 PM
    Jennie said...
    So if I don't do CIO in the middle of the nap..what do I do? I don't want to feed him b/c that will make him eating every 2 hours....do I just go get him and pacify him until the next feeding? Thanks!
    October 9, 2008 4:34 PM
    jencwu said...
    Jennie,What I do if my 11 week old wakes up early from a nap is first wait about 10 mins to see if he'll go back to sleep. If he's still crying after 10 mins, I give him his pacifier or put him in his swing and he usually goes back to sleep, but not always. Although I try to stick more to 3 hr feedings, and even up to 3 1/2 now that he's older, if it's 30 mins before that 3 hr mark, I'll just feed him a little early. I wouldn't feed him any sooner than 2 1/2 hrs though. Hope that helps!
    October 9, 2008 4:47 PM

50 comments:

PMac said...

Does anyone have a recommendation if a baby ends up missing an entire nap, b/c he/she cries or doesn't fall asleep? She cried at first, and then started/stopped multiple times... we are just starting the babywise process, so we know it won't happen overnight. It is then time to feed her, but she missed that whole nap. Do we change her routine and put her right back down after feeding her or do we keep her up until the next routine naptime?

Aaron Corcoran said...

Hello there. We are Babywise parents of a 2.5 year old that slept through the night at 8 weeks. However, with our second child, now 12 weeks as of yesterday, he doesn't seem to be close to sleeping through the night and had a question in regards to CIO.

Last night we decided to try the CIO method, however, he woke up at 10:30 which we did our "dream feed", again at 1:30 (cried for 20 minuts), 2:20 (cried for an hour), 4:00 (cried for 15 minutes( then at 5...which we fed him.

I know this isn't consistent, but our question is this:

Since he is still waking up 3-4 times at night, should we not do CIO until he is down to 1 waking at night? We're a bit confused on how to get to this point.

We've worked hard on his naps and he is doing much better at this. However, nights don't seem to be improving, with him waking 3-4 times. Granted, when we did the CIO last night (which didn't seem to go so well), we ate at 5 and not the other times.

Just seems like the boy cried all night, which wasn't very restful for him or anyone. Do we continue along the CIO path while he is stll waking up 3-4 times or do we pray that he starts sleeping longer and only wakes up 1 and then start the CIO?

Help =)

Frazzled.

hmm716 said...

Just a quick question here - I just started CIO two days ago. Things are going pretty well, my son is starting to cry less and less each nap. My question is, do all of his naps need to be in the crib? If I need to run errands or just get out of the house is it ok for him to sleep in his carseat or stroller for a nap here and there? I'm just having a hard time figuring out how I still have a life while training him. I guess I should add that my husband in out to sea (in the Navy), so I have to leave the house every once in a while or I'll go crazy! My mom was telling me that as long as Aiden had one good morning nap and one good afternoon nap in his crib then he should be fine to sleep elsewhere for the others. I just don't want to confuse him with the CIO. Thanks!

jencwu said...

hmm716,
Just from my personal experience (I'm a 1st time mom, so no expert!), I have had my guy out during naptimes since he was just a couple of weeks old. I try not to have 2 naps in the carseat in a row, but even that happens on occasion. He is 6 months now and has been doing great with naps since he was about 4 months. Unfortunately he is now at the age where he will not sleep when we're out and about anymore, so I'm actually home more now than when he was real young. I totally understand what you mean about needing to get out, I felt the same way. It sounds like your little one is adapting pretty well so I'd think you wouldn't have any problems going out every now and then :)

Plowmanators said...

PMac, see this post:

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html

and

Waketime When Baby Wakes Early : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/waketime-when-baby-wakes-early.html

Waketime When They Wake Early: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/waketime-when-they-wake-early.html

Plowmanators said...

Aaron,

Since he woke so often, I would say there is a good chance he was hungry and needed to eat.

Remember that it is totally normal for boys to take longer to STTN. There are also many babies who don't STTN until older than your son, so don't feel like you are "failing" somehow. Just do what is best for him individually. It sounds to me like he is hungry, and 3 months is a growth spurt time, so it might be a growth spurt period and not a good one to CIO at night. Evaluate his hunger. If he is hungry at night, feed him for sure.

Plowmanators said...

hmm716, exactly what you do depends on you. My advice is to do your best to give him two weeks of consistency. It will help him learn faster. Then you can start having your disruptions. Since you are alone, you likely can't realistically not disrupt him at all for two weeks, so do your best. Keep in mind it is only for two weeks. When you do have to go out, I would shoot for around evening and avoid morning. You can see the blog label "consistency" for more on this.

Lauren said...

Hello, I love you site - it's a great help so far. I have a little boy who is just about three weeks old. So far, BW is going okay for us (we started right off the bat), with the exception of nap troubles that we're trying to solve with trial and error. But I'm having trouble understanding how to manage my nighttime feedings and at what age it's appropriate to only have one feeding in the middle of the night. Right now, he eats roughly at 7 am, 10, 1, 4, 7, and then 10. I let him wake naturally, which he does around 2 am pretty consistently, and then 5 am again. I feed him around 7 am anyway, and he always takes a full feeding at each meal. So when should I except only to get up once a night? It says in BW not to let him sleep longer than 5 hours, but he seems to wake every three hours himself. So when can I drop that second nighttime feeding? Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Lauren,

I personally wouldn't even start to consider trying to force a night waking before 5 weeks. I actually would wait until 7. They usually drop these pretty naturally. He is still at the age where he needs at least 8 feedings. See this post for guidance on number of feedings per day per age and general expectations:

Babywise Milestones: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/babywise-milestones.html

Lauren said...

Plowmanters,

Thanks for your response, that helps a ton. I have another, more pressing question. My son is now five weeks old, and he will NOT sleep during the day. Unless I'm out and about where he'll sleep in the carseat and stroller, he simply hates to go down for a nap. I tried cutting back on his waketime and even not giving him any waketime, but nothing seems to work. He sleeps well at night (wakes up twice to feed but goes right back to sleep), and he's in a great mood after the first morning feeding. But, the second I lay him down he's crying, sometimes hysterically, until the next feeding time if I let him. I tried your suggestion of putting him in the swing but he doesn't like that either. I tried laying him in different positions, swaddling him (he loves this at night)...everything! I know now he's like your son, where he doesn't like to sleep, and when I go in there (every 20 minutes or so), he almost always has a pee pee diaper which I'll change, and it seems like we start from square one right after that...back to screaming. I should also mention that I'm 99% sure he is getting full feedings at every feeding, and I don't think it's gas either, but I've given him Mylicon to be safe. I cut out caffeine and dairy for a few days as well just to be sure, though like I mentioned before, he sleeps well at night so I don't think it's a diet issue. What I think is going on is that he cries through his morning nap and then gets overtired and overstimulated, and by mid-morning, he's too tired to fall asleep...I'm not sure but I feel like this is what's going on.

So basically, I need help. My question is, if I'm trying to implement CIO, is it okay for him to go pretty much the whole day without napping? Is that normal? And if so, will I get through this? It's hard not to run in there and hug him!! Thanks again for a great site.

Alice said...

I am in need of some serious help. I was doing Babywise from 8 weeks on to about 10 months. Then teething happened and some colds and all of a sudden, I was rocking my son back to sleep when he woke in the middle of the night. Now he is 19 months and comes to expect it. He stands up in the crib (about 3 hours after we put him down) and cries. We go to him, pick him up and rock him until he basically falls asleep - then we put him back in the crib. This worked for months, but now as soon as we put him back in the crib, he wakes up and starts crying again, wanting us to hold him. We are SOOO sleep deprived as most nights, we end up getting up at least 2 times or sleeping with him on the couch.

I obviously need to do CIO (never done it), but I just need some guidance and support. Anyone else been in this situation with a boy this age? What am I in for? Thank you so much.

Plowmanators said...

Lauren, for some, it does take a couple of days of no sleep before they get it and start sleeping. First you want to be sure you are hitting everything right. Waketime, watching for nap cues, etc. Then figure out what sort of interference he needs if any. There are a lot of factors to figure out and it is all a matter of getting them right for successful sleep. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Alice, this is a classic case of accidental parenting. I haven't ever done CIO with a child that age. My cousin did it about that age, and it was rough for a few days, but her daughter learned quickly. Good luck!

Alisha B said...

I see your first stipulation to CIO is to make sure your baby doesn't have reflux or bad gas. Mine has both. Any suggestions? THANKS SO MUCH!

Teresa said...

My daughter is 6 months old and I just tried CIO last night and she cried for an hour from 3-4am, I finally nursed her back to sleep. How long should I let her cry? Should I have fed her at 4:00?

Lara said...

Hi. Thanks so much for your blog. It has been a great resource. I have a 7-week old daughter. The first five weeks were great: wake her up to eat, a bit of wake time and off to sleep. I didn't have to lay her down awake b/c she fell asleep anywhere all the time. Well the past two weeks, I've started laying her down awake. For the most part, she'll go to sleep, but she is consistantly waking up 45min to an hour into her nap. She went through a growth spurt, so I fed her, but now she's just used to it. She seems to be having a lot of trouble transitioning between sleep phases. I'm currently trying CIO (35 minutes so far) and am wondering if that is the thing to do if she has gotten a bit of a nap. She is on a three-hour schedule. Should I let her cry until the full three hours or go get her after 2.5? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Alisha,

You want to remedy those two items. Kaitlyn had reflux and Brayden and McKenna had/have gas and all three were able to learn to self-soothe.

Talk to your pedi about meds to help the reflux. Use gripe water or gas drops for gas. Then when you know she doesn't have pain from those, you can move forward.

Also, you can check out the Baby Whisperer for ideas (see the blog label Baby Whisperer) on how to self-soothe without CIO. Even with her methods, though, you would need to treat the pain from reflux and gas.

Plowmanators said...

Teresa,

If she is hungry, you want to feed her but then try to get her to take the food she needs in the day so sh doesn't need it at night. That would mean either feeding more often in the day or feeding more ounces per feeding.

As far as how long to let her cry, that is up to you to decide. One thing to keep in mind is with CIO you need ot do it all the way. But you have to be sure all of her needs are met before the CIO. Then you have to figure out if she can be interfered with or not, as I mentioned in this post.

I assume you are having her CIO in order to drop the night feeding. If so, you want to see CIO through to the end. But there are other options for doing so if you think you won't do CIO through to the end. See this post for ideas:

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

Plowmanators said...

Lara,

She might just need to get through the nap a couple of times to get used to making it. When McKenna finished a growth spurt, she woke early. I held her to help through one transition and then she went back to napping great. However, she has been putting herself to sleep since she was 3 days old, so she has the skills to do so. If your daughter is unable to fall asleep on her own, or just learning, it will take her time to be able to make it through the transition.

You want to be sure she isn't overly tired. If so, she will wake early. See this post for ideas:

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html

Jessica said...

Hi, I am new to this blog and I just think it is wonderful. I am trying to follow the BW book and guidelines but it is so hard. I have a 4 week old and he is sleeping perfectly at night- getting up to eat and going right back to bed. However, he does NOT sleep during the day. No matter what I do he will go down for a nap and nap for about 30-1hr and then wake up fussy. He doesn't seem hungry and no matter what i do i can't calm him down. Any suggestions. I am trying to do CIO but i keep thinking in my head that I am making it worse because he is getting so tired that he can't fall asleep. Does that make sense. Any help at all would be wonderful!

oyenarte said...

I was doing great with BW with my third baby up until the 4 month growth spurt and then things took a turn downhill... TO make this as short as possible I will jump forward now to her just turning 7 months. She is still swaddled and waking 1-2 times per night. Before 4 months, she slept 9pm to 7:30 am so I know she can do it... My question is this, I was feeling like I should break her of the swaddle before cry it out at this age but last night tried leaving one arm out and she was up 3 times within the 1st hour so I put it back in. She now nurses to sleep at bedtime and I walk her around until she falls asleep at naps. Both habits which I know I need to break but wonder if I need to get rid of the swaddle first. I haven't done CIO when she was younger because she also has reflux and when she gets very agitated she refluxes/vomits/etc. The reflux seems pretty under control although she still naps sitting upright in a stationary swing because she sleeps so much longer. What do I need to fix first?

Chelsea said...

My daughter is four weeks old and wakes at night at around 2 a.m. for a feeding. Often when I put her back to bed after this feeding, she doesn't scream and cry, but she seems wide awake and makes loud grunting noises and other sounds for as long as I let her (sometimes for over an hour.)Is letting her make these noises considered CIO or is she confusing day with night? It seems like she wants awake time in the middle of the night and I don't know how to fix it. During the day, she has been having about 3 to 4 wake times for between 45 to 60 minutes, so I don't feel like she's sleeping too much for her age during the day. Any advice you have is greatly appreciated.

Plowmanators said...

Jessica, I appologize! I just now saw your comment. Please let me know if you still need help.

Plowmanators said...

oyenarte,

At that age, it might be good to just get rid of it all at the same time. It might be rough for a bit though :) Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Chelsea, I wouldn't call that CIO, but it is her learning to self-soothe, which is a good thing. Also, can you see her? Are you sure she is actually awake? My girls were both loud grunters while they slept. With a video monitor, I can see that they are sleeping and not awake (even though it sounds like it).

Most babies work out day/night confusion around 6 weeks, so if she isn't there yet, she should be soon.

Mark said...

Hi.....we are getting ready to being CIO with our 4 month old. He was very colicy early on, so we weren't successful with the full aspect of BW. While we have his feedings every 3 hours, his napping, when it occurs our a battle. Rocking him to sleep for 45 minutes for a max of a 30 minute nap (usually shorter). If were out and about in the car, he'll crash and sleep 1.5-2 hours, so I know he's tired.

Anyway, I've struggled to find any CIO articles that cover the following:

1) What do you do if the baby cries through the entire nap (checking on him every so often). Do you simply feed him at the 3 hour mark and try to put him down again after a brief wake period? What happens when he cries through this nap as well? Bottom line, at what point do you just ensure they get sleep (i.e. drive them around, hold them, etc) or does it matter?

2) With a very active 2.5 year old, we are out and about during several nap periods (pre-school drop off, pickup, etc). Since he sleeps in his car seat once we're out, I let him to ensure he gets some sleep, but I can certainly appreciate the fact that sleeping in his car seat is a bad habit. Is this okay or should we wake him and put him in his crib?

3) Sleeping at night is going well for us, but it's getting harder to get him down. I'm not too concerned about this, and I don't plan to CIO at night, until we have naps worked out. Hopefully this is will work

Chele said...

Hi... Been looking for a blog like this! My baby girl is 5 months old. We're implementing a schedule since she's going to daycare now. This is what we planned:
5:30am Nurse her before work
7am Wake up to go to daycare
9:30am Feeding (4 oz.)
10am Nap for 2 hours
1:30pm Feeding (5 oz.)
2:30pm Nap for 2 hours
5:30pm Nurse her after work
9:30pm Nurse for bedtime
10-10:30 Bedtime

The problem is that she sometimes wakes up before 5:30 (the night time feeding). Sometimes I have to wake her up. I think it depends on how much she takes in for the last feeding. Our nanny said I need to let her CIO until my established first feeding. My husband disagrees because he says she's hungry. What should I do? When I did feed her, sometimes she's really hungry & nurses for 20-30 minutes, but this morning, it was just 15-20 minutes, then she went back to sleep. Is it ok to let them CIO if they *might* be hungry? I won't know until I try to feed her- and each day can be different.

Plowmanators said...

Mark,

1-If you choose to let him cry through the nap period, I would feed him at three hours. At a younger age, I always say to get baby to sleep at some point. At 4 months though...I am not sure what the best option is. I do have an article titled "waking early from naps/won't fall asleep for naps" that will give you my ideas on what to do if you don't want to have him cry the entire nap period.

2-I definitely would NOT wake him and put him in his crib. By that age, very few babies will transfer succesfully. I would just let him sleep, but do be very careful about him sleeping in the carseat. It can be very dangerous. In my state, a baby was recently strangled while sleeping in the carseat. Not to scare you, just to make sure you are very cautious about it.

3-I always say to fix the day before the night. Once the day is fixed, the night usually follows.

Good luck! You might want to get the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child."

Plowmanators said...

Chele, I wouldn't CIO if baby is hungry. But if you think she is hungry, I would suggest you feed her more often in the day than 4 hour intervals. That way she can get more food in the day hours and not need it at night.

Also, she might be waking because she is overly tired. Babies actually need a bedtime between 7-8:30 PM. You want her down at the least 10 hours before she wakes, which would be 9 PM. I know it seems counterintuitive, but the more tired she is, the less-soundly she will sleep.

Kathy said...

My kids never cried themselves to sleep, because I would nurse them lovingly, and they would usually fall asleep in my arms, warm, safe, and cuddled. You know, the way God made them. :-) When they were asleep, I would usually transfer them to the crib or bassinet, or sometimes just keep holding them for a while, looking at them smiling slightly, with a little milk drool coming out of their mouth. Happy. Content. "Milk-drunk" I call it. They never had any problems going to sleep -- in fact, my older son weaned himself in one day at 13 months old (I was pregnant again, and he had a cold), and went from being nursed to sleep for nap and bedtime to me just laying him down in his crib and him falling asleep. They've never had any problems with going to sleep when I tell them. I don't time it, but I would say less than 10 minutes from the time I say, "Ok, time to brush teeth." (And I read them a story or two in that time.) They both sleep through the night without a problem.

Chelsea said...

My daughter is 5 months old, and I have been doing Babywise since birth, and she goes to sleep on her own for naps and bedtime. By 3 months she was sleeping through the night most nights (around 10 hours). Gradually, she started waking up once at night to be nursed, then twice, and now it has spiralled out of control, and she will wake up about every 2 hours, sometimes more and sometimes less. I took her to the doctor to be checked out, and he said that she didn't need to eat at night anymore and that she is perfectly healthy. He said I should work on letting her cry and eliminate one feeding at a time, but gradually. The problem that I have with this is that I don't understand how the baby can learn anything if I am choosing some wakenings to let her cry during the night, and others that I eventually go in and feed her. How is she supposed to know if this is the time that Mommy will come feed her or if it's the time she has to go back to sleep? The first night ended up being easy because she only woke up twice and cried herself back to sleep in under 15 minutes both times. However, last night she woke up every two hours, and one of the times I fed her because she just kept crying, and the doctor said that making her go completely cold turkey with the feedings might be a shock to her system. My question is, would it be more effective to make her cry it out every single time she wakes up, even if it means every couple of hours, or will it really work if I have her cry it out for all but one or two of the times she wakes up?

bethers21 said...

Hi, Val! I've been avidly reading your posts about CIO and the 4 S's. I've been following McKenna's journey and so excited that I would be as successful! No go. I have not found any way to get this girl to sleep. I'm thinking we're going to have to do CIO. I've given her gas drops every feeding the past 24 hours or more. I'm fairly certain it's not silent reflux although she does arch at times, but I think she's just so stinking mad. Waketime is 30 min because she's starts getting drowsy at 25 min. Since you were pretty adamant about CIO from birth and now had success with the 4 S's I was wondering if you had any suggestions. Are you any less in favor of CIO? The only thing I don't do is swaddle because it makes her more mad. I hate to do CIO at 3 weeks but I really cannot find anything else wrong and she fusses/screams/wakes off/on the entire nap. I've tried up to 45 min waketime which is way overstimulating, and I cannot even find a way to help her to sleep. She hates the swing, sucks on a paci literally for hours without stopping, and will eventually only conk out in my arms about 30 min before next feed. Growing very well. Time for CIO?

Mary said...

Hello,
My question is about how early of age to start CIO? I am a strong advocate of CIO as it worked quite well with our first child. We have just gotten home from the hospital with our second baby girl today and so it is night 2 and she still doesn't quite know her days from her nights yet. In your opinion, Is it too early to start CIO? or do you think starting this early will only help things?

Plowmanators said...

Chelsea,

I haven't ever had to do that, so I am not sure. I think it would really depend on the child.

One thing, I would try to figure out why she is waking up. Something has to be waking her up, especially since she STTN in the past. Is it room temp? Noise? PJs? Teething? Something has to be disrupting her.

Since she is waking every two hours, I think I might do it so at the first waking, do CIO. It has only been 2 hours and you know she can't be hungry that soon.

Another option would be to feed her less and less at a feeding before doing CIO.

I think I would try to figure out the reason first, though. It might make the whole process easier.

Plowmanators said...

bethers21, I prefer the 4 S's just because I hate to listen to my child cry :) But if that didn't work, I would do CIO. I am not against CIO at all, just thought if the 4 S's would work, do it. I would probably start CIO. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Mary, I think you have to make that call. I started CIO with my oldest at 9 weeks and my middle at 5 days. My middle had a much easier time overall. You might also consider the 4 S's (see blog label). It might make things easier on everyone.

Tyan said...

My baby is 6 weeks old. He had surgery at 3 weeks for pyloric stenosis which was causing severe reflux and projectile vomiting. Now he is on two medications for the reflux and has been diagnosed with a floppy esophagus, other than that he is a pretty great baby. He never really cries, more like grunting or yelling when he's hungry. He's sleeping in 2 - 4 hour spurts with no rhyme or reason to how long he will sleep. I'm just wondering if letting him cry himself to sleep will aggravate his reflux/espophagus situation. If I should start trying it now or wait until his esophagus stiffens up (ENT sait it would likely be 6 months) What do you think?

Plowmanators said...

Tyan, in this situation, I think it would be best to talk to a doctor about this.

There are methods to teach to self-soothe without doing CIO. You can do the 4 s's by the baby whisperer. There are also other methods out there (but I don't have experience with them). I think in your situation, I would be inclined to go with one of those first and see how it goes.

About The Griffin Chronicles said...

Hi,
I've been doing CIO with my 3rd child (also my 3rd BW baby) since the first week and it is still tough at 4 weeks. She cries a lot more than my other kids. Some days go well, but other days...it is not uncommon for her to cry off and on for her entire nap (every nap on a bad day). I am confused about how "hard core" to be with her. When she first starts crying I go in to investigate- burp, reswaddle, etc- then I try to wait it out. Often she cries off & on for 30 minutes, then sleeps 30-45, and then begins to cry again. When this happens I usually get her up because I don't like to do CIO twice in one nap. As a result, she has 1-2 cycles per day that are only 2 hours apart. The rest are an average of 2.5 hours. Maybe once a day she makes it to 3 hours.
I'm having a hard time with balance. I don't want to confuse her by going in too many times or rescuing her, but I also don't want her screaming so much that she doesn't nap and messes up the rest of the day. If I finally get her up at the 2 hour mark, is that undoing all my efforts?
I'm having such a hard time with perspective...it seems like she will never sleep train.

-Ash

Plowmanators said...

Ash, I would suggest you also read the new version of this post "CIO Bootcamp--revised and updated".

When she wakes early, I would try to help her fall back asleep. So I would rock her or put her in a swing or something--unless she is having a growth spurt.

I would make sure she is having short enough waketime and not too much stimulation. These seem to be challenges with babies with older siblings. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Carlotta, I will be deleting your comment per my debate policy. If you want to debate this topic, there are plenty of places on the internet to do so. My blog is not one of them.

kysyra said...

Dear Plowmanators,
I am very sorry to see you eliminating my post.
Actually my intention was not to debate but to give some information that I am sure not all the people using your blog have, but being cut off does get me into discussion mood.

Since by now I read part of your discussion with tulipgirl, I am now aware that you believe this information not valid since it is not based on prospective double-blind studies. Do you really think that Gary Ezzos statement "Crying won't hurt your child" is based on any such studies?
It is an OPINION, and the studies showing harmful consequences are definitely on more solid ground than this, even though prospective double-blind is not possible. There is definitely a score of evidence! Maybe you should at least take a look at the new study about serotonine levels! Actually you wrote yourself that a double-blind study would be considered unethical - why? If it does not harm your child, why would this be so?

I do not debate CIO working, not even that if a loving parent uses it kids won't be happy anyway. But I do debate it's ethics and it IS linked to harmful changes in the brain, especially the brain stem. Ignoring this could be dangerous. You give parents advice on something that MAY harm their children, doesn't that worry you in the least?

Plowmanators said...

Once again, please refer to my debate policy.

I will answer your question. I do not believe that CIO, done correctly, harms the child. I also do not believe that crying will harm a child. I always find these things interesting because they say crying will cause perrmanent damage to the child, but then quickly comfort parents with colicky babies--basically assuring them this statement won't apply to their baby.

If done effectively and correctly, doing CIO with a baby will not produce even close to the amount of crying done by a colicky baby.

If crying is harmful to the non-colicky baby, then it must be harmful to the colicky baby also.

I know several people, my husband and children included, who did CIO as babies and they are all wonderful people. I don't know one person who did CIO as a baby who has problems. I am not pushing any agenda--I am just looking at the evidence around me and the inconsistencies with studies.

So there you have my answer.

Plowmanators said...

I will once again be deleting because I won't stand for profanity on my blog. I have given you my reason, and I will not be taken into debate with you. I promise you that you will not change my mind on this, and I am certainly not going to try to change yours. You sought me--I didn't seek you. If you don't agree, don't read. It is that simple.

Also, I never said only people who CIO as babies will be good people. I never CIO as a baby, and I am a good person, though definitely not a good sleeper.

sarah brinkman said...

Hi There-
I dont know if this is the right thread to post this as I have a few questions about CIO.

My daughter is 4 weeks today and we have been doing BW since day one. My question is actually a clarification. I let her CIO to go down for her naps, usually takes about 5 minutes and she sleeps for about about hour some naps. If she wakes early, I am NOT supposed to let her CIO or am I? I read a post where you talked about the "mid nap soothe" being harder to get? I usually let her cry it out for about 20 minutes and then I get her up and put her in a swing to get her through to the next feeding. She almost always falls back to sleep in the swing so Im thinking that she isnt hungry, just learning to put herself back to sleep?? SInce she is so young her naps run about 2hours since her waketime is so short.
Also, after her DF she usually wakes to nurse about 4 hours later at which time she is WIDE AWAKE! I can get her drowsy after nursing but the minute I put her down, she wakes and has a hard time falling asleep. I let her CIO last night for 30 minutes and she did fall back to sleep til her 6 feeding. Is it possible she has her days and night mixed up? I have 2 boys that I did BW with and at this age they NEVER were awake in the middle of the night, I would nurse them and they would go right back to sleep.
I have her on a 3 hour, 2.5 hour staggered schedule of 6,9, 11:30,2:30, 5, 8 and 10:30 DF.

Plowmanators said...

Sarah,

I don't do CIO in babies that young mid-nap. You never know if it is a growth spurt or some other issue. I especially don't do it while the baby is just learning to self-soothe. You could give her some time as you are doing, and then help her, just as you are doing.

It sounds like she has some day/night confusion, which is fixed by having playtime following a feeding. She will get it with time.

jaimie said...

My heart hurts for babies left to cry. I want to scoop them all up and love on them as they deserve. The reason it is SO HARD for you mothers to do CIO is because you aren't supposed to be doing it. Listen to your heart, your God given heart & instincts. You will know that your baby should be "rescued"... they NEED to be close. They aren't babies for long... you'll get to sleep again and have a schedule again, don't worry. Embrace these first years of their life and be there for them when they cry. Please. God Bless Mothers.

Plowmanators said...

Jaimie, of course you know I disagree--especially with the idea that something hard shouldn't be done. Pregnancy? Hard. Delivery? Hard. Having patience? Hard. Exercise? Hard. Controlling appetites and eating right? Hard. Letting a toddler take those first steps and fall down? Hard.

There are a lot of things in life that are hard--but hard doesn't mean it is wrong.

kysyra said...

Are you seriously saying that hard = difficult task/hard work and hard = painful/heartbreaking is the same?

I think it would be quite hard for me to just walk up to someone and e.g. punch him. Or to go out and cheat on my husband.
Do you think I should work on that?

And anyway, what exactly are the benefits that come from putting yourself through such hard work? They still elude me.

Maybe this is what pains me the most. You all love your babys and really believe that it is good and necessary to leave them alone to cry. And I don't understand why.
I don't understand why books tell people that it should be necessary to treat babys so badly.

If you mean that they sleep better - my daughter goes to bed happily at night. Usually it takes about ten minutes until she sleeps. She sleeps at daycare, she slept no problem in my parents' hotel room, on the plane, in a lot of different beds on vacation and even on a mattress on the floor during a huge party.
So what benefit do your children have that mine is missing out on?

Plowmanators said...

Kysyra, I am saying that just because something is difficult to do doesn't make it wrong.

No, I don't think you should cheat on your husband.

It is great for you that your child is naturally a sleeper. My oldest child wouldn't sleep at all as a newborn all day long. At all. I would rock him and rock him and he would never go to sleep. He would melt down every day because he was so tired. When I finally did CIO, he learned quickly to sleep and was so much happier, alert, and no longer had melt-downs.

My daughters were not much of criers. They were natural sleepers. My oldest daughter did some crying, but not much. My youngest daughter went to bed awake on her own every single nap from three days old and did not cry a peep until she was 3 months old--then it was for a few minutes before two naps and it was over. She would have been a natural sleeper no matter what I did. So I truly hope for you that you always have great sleepers. It is much nicer. But my son is a great sleeper today.

I don't really know your child and don't know anything about her, so as to if my children have any advantage, I cannot say, and I probably wouldn't be a fair judge because I think my kids are pretty awesome.

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