Wednesday, December 19, 2007

When does it get better?

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Oh when! This is a question running through the mind of every mother doing BW (and if you are a father doing BW, then you too :) ). Here is my experience of when it got better.

If You Start At Birth:
If you start BW at birth, you can expect it to get a lot better at about 8 weeks, then dramatically better at 3 months, and then life is sweet at 6 months. When I say start at birth, I mean start at birth. I mean that you start CIO at 1 week. I mean that you work on a consistent wake time no matter how tired you are in the morning. I mean that you are working toward the 3 hour schedule (keeping in mind the many growth spurts in this time period). I mean that you are consistent. That you try to stay home for 90% of naps. I know you are stir crazy. I know you are dying to get out of the house; grocery shopping is a thrill! But if you take those first 8 weeks and really focus on getting your child into a steady rhythm and get CIO down to WIO (whimper it out) and even SIO (sleep it out), then by week 8 you will have reached stabilization. Your baby will be stable in patterns and if he gets disrupted he will bounce back rather quickly. Well worth it, at least in my eyes.

If You Start Late:
This category applies to you if you started the whole program late AND if you started just a portion of the program late. You fed your baby on a 2.5-3 hour schedule from birth? Great! Did you CIO? No? Then you started late. You can't get the full benefits of the program until you follow the full guidelines of the program. Do what you want to, but expect realistic results. Now, once you start and you are consistent and follow all of the stipulations put forth in the previous paragraph about starting, expect 8 weeks of work before you get the major payoff. Most babies will stop crying altogether for naps by then (I know one who from birth never cried more than 5 minutes, but cried until he was a year--he just needed it to settle down). Both of mine stopped altogether. You will likely see results faster, but plan on 8 weeks and you will hopefully be pleasantly surprised.

I purposefully planned Kailtyn's due date so that it would be at a time of year I knew we could stay home for the most part. Brayden was born 6 weeks later in the year, and it was too crazy. We couldn't stay home long enough to get him stabilized. Kaitlyn was done by the time crazy summer activities started. We started Brayden at 9 weeks, and he took 2 months even amidst the craziness of it all. I think he would have been faster if we had taken the time to get him there. Once I committed to getting him in a routine, it only took 2-4 weeks. BUT he was a little behind Kaitlyn in the major milestones (STTN, perfect and predictable routine, etc.). He got there. She got there faster.

Your child will get there, too. This time of year (Christmas time) is a crazy time and not one you can stay home and get your child stable. Keep working on it, and in January start a plan to get your child into a predictable, steady routine. Once you do, you can disrupt it with little or no problems. It is worth the initial effort.

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Reader Questions:
  • Catherine said...
    Hello,Thanks again for your insight and wisdom- it's helping so much in a confusing time! Can I get your thoughts again? This is what I did yesterday. Usually, we keep him awake and eating intermittently for 1 hr. Then 30 min more awake time, and nap. He was sleeping on a good day 2-3 naps, but consistently not sleeping the same ones- the 11 and 2, and on a bad day, the morning nap and 5:00 too. (We are on 3 hr. schedule) Couldn't get him to sleep at all those naps if he didn't fall asleep himself, and never tried helping him to fall asleep. Then at night he would go 4-5 hr stretches including feeds, so about 3-4.5 hr time actually sleeping, roughly.Anyway, yesterday, I went with his cues as being tired cues instead of hungry cues. (the cues I described in my previous post.) His waketime yesterday was anywhere from 30 min to 1.5 hrs including feed.During the feed, I let him stop eating after the initial sucking period where he would come off and not eat anymore instead of waiting and getting him to eat small minutes of time intermittently throughout an hour. We moved forward in the cycle at that point.When I put him down, I helped him. I let him sleep in his favorite seat, and rocked him in it for 10-15 min until he settled.The previous 3 days he has had no naps, so that's why I decided to help. I felt he was possibly seriously overstimulated.He settled down in his seat,and slept 2 hrs 3 out of 4 naps with me having to wake him up. His last nap, I put him in the seat, but let him cry it out there. He cried himself to sleep after about 45 min. of sporadic crying. I had to wake him up for the next feeding.I don't plan on helping him all the time, but due to his previous 3 days of no sleeping, I felt that he needed more sleep each day than 7 hrs. total in 24 hrs. (I was letting him cry it out but he couldn't get to sleep.) Anyway, my confusion as to if I'm handling this correctly came tonight. He has been up every 2.5 hrs instead of every 4 or 5. Is he just adjusting due to a serious change in habits in his daytime cycle? (eating for 10-20 min total instead of 1 hr. and a little over 2 hr. nap instead of 1.5 hr.) Or am I seriously blowing it and screwing up his nights in thinking that he's not still hungry and treating it as a sleep issue and not a hunger one? Yesterday I put him down as soon as I could after I saw him start doing the cues that looked like hunger cues. Like I said, with the help he fell asleep. I felt like if he were actually hungry, he would not have slept 2 hrs. and have to be reawakened, is that correct? Anyway, I am super confused, and definitely not ok with him waking every 2.5 hrs in the night! :)Any thoughts you have would be seriously appreciated!
    February 29, 2008 9:29 AM
    Catherine said...
    One another question- what exactly is meant by the term self soothe and the best strategy to teach them to do that?
    February 29, 2008 10:50 AM
    Catherine said...
    Sorry, meant to say, what is the best strategy to teach them to self soothe?
    February 29, 2008 10:50 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Catherine,I think it is possible that he is just adjusting to new things. I think you are correct in assuming that if you had to wake him from naps, he had enough to eat and isn't hungry.To self-soothe means for baby to learn to put himself asleep on his own. Cry it out is one way to do that. There are several books out there for other options for attaining that goal, though I haven't read any of them. If I were you, I would break down your goals into smaller steps rather than taking them all on at once. All at once can be overwhelming.First, I would do the eat, wake, sleep cycle and get baby used to that, but continue to help him fall asleep. Do this for a bit until you are confident he is getting enough to eat and he is used to the way things are. Watch your waketime and get to know the right time to put him down for a nap. Most babies the age of your son can't go longer than an hour of waketime. Too much waketime will cause shorter naps and harder time falling asleep. You will have to decide what the right waketime is for your son, though. After you have that cycle down, I would then start on the CIO. Be aware that the longer you wait to start, the harder it gets, but it can always be done. See the CIO posts listed on the blog index. Good luck!
    February 29, 2008 1:59 PM
    Catherine said...
    Hello,Thanks so much once again for your help. It's so nice to know that the support is out there!After helping him with all of his naps a couple days and his night time sleeping going down, I decided to try helping him with only 2-3 naps and letting him cio 1-2 naps.(or vice versa) His night time sleeping went right back to pretty normal. I figured that he obviously needs the daytime activity. Anyway, he has been cio the naps in his crib, he starts off crying for about 10-20 minutes, then stops. I can sometimes hear him making little noises in there. Then, one day, he would start crying again after 35 min. The next day it is up to 1 hr each nap. Then he either cries the rest of the way through the nap, or is quiet again for about 30 min, then cries again for the last 30 minutes before the feeding.Anyway, I feel like after that initial crying period he is in there just trying to get himself to sleep, and after a certain point he just gives up and cries again. I think that because the time is getting longer almost every day of CIO. Also because he has usually squirmed out of his swaddle which tells me he is moving around. Has anyone ever had their child do that? Does my interpretation sound correct, or maybe something else is going on?Also I am really struggling to figure out how much waketime is appropriate for him. He is 6 weeks on Wed. (Growth spurt coming to add yet another variable- ahhh!) Almost immediately after finishing eating he will start with his little cues. But if I put him right down then, he ends up sleeping less at night and appearing not hungry, but in need of some activity, especially now since he's not crying the entire naps during cio like before. My question is- if he's doing the tired cues (which confusingly look like hunger cues, but almost 100% sure we have that ruled out now) right away, when on earth do I put him down? He seems to do them on a spectrum. They start off mildly right after eating. They grow to where he is fidgety and seems anxious, but can still get distracted by other activities. Then they get to where is crying and fussy but can still get distracted by other activities. I have been trying to figure out where in the spectrum to put him down. Previously my husband and I, thinking he was hungry, would keep him awake for 1.5 hours including the feeding time. He went down great for naps excluding the afternoon naps, where he was usually more awake. Just trying to figure out how to know when is the right window!!! Any thoughts? Where in your child's cue spectrum do you put them down? Or should I just pick a set time? I want to make it consistent for him- since I go off his cues now the amount of his waketime is not terribly consistent.
    March 3, 2008 2:50 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    He is likely falling asleep for those 30 minutes, but obviously a 30 minute nap is not long enough. He is likely still working on getting the self-soothing down. More practice will help him get it.Your waketime at that age will likely be 45-60 minutes, including your feeding. Waketime starts the moment he wakes up. Have you tried a pacifier during waketime? If he looks like he needs to eat during waketime, perhaps he just needs more sucking time.My son got fussy when it was time for a nap. My daughter yawned once for a while, then she had no cue. I now just watch the clock and put her down when it is time. The right cue is going to have to be determined by you, and if he gives nothing obvious, X amount of time is a good idea. At his age, each waketime should be pretty much the same length.
    March 3, 2008 9:54 PM
    Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie,You are right- he is falling asleep during those times following crying. I finally went in and looked tonight. He cried for 6- min and then made little sounds for a bit, but he did fall asleep. His naptimes have increased over the last couple days from 30 minutes to 1 hr exactly, to 1.5 hrs tonight. Do you think it will continue to go up?I tried a pacifier with him and he seemed pretty disinterested. Do I:1) Go off of his cues and put him down right away? That would basically be: nurse, diaper change, bed. (Since he begins his cues about 30 seconds- 1 minute after finishing eating.) I am wondering how to do give him a consistent naptime if I do it this way, since his nursing sessions vary anywhere from straight sucking of 8-18 or 19 minutes, usually just a couple on the lower end, a couple in the middle, and a couple longer ones throughout the day. 2) Do a set waketime of 45-60 min. given the guidelines for his age regardless of his cues?I am just looking forward to getting feed/wake/sleep in a consistent pattern for him! Thanks again.
    March 3, 2008 10:28 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Yes, it will get longer. Both of my kids did the same thing. It is part of the learning process--you just have to wait it out. I know it is hard, it was hard for me the second time knowing it would come, but it will come :)I would probably go for a time table-- 45-60 minutes -- but be flexible about it. What I did was watch the clock, and when it was 45 minutes, I started watching for those cues. The hard thing at a young age is that timing is so important. One minute can make the difference. So I would try to just watch her and not pay attention to anything else so I wouldn't miss the cues (kind of hard when the two year old was in the mix ;) ). If the cues come earlier, by all means, put him down. But I would think at his age he could go 30 minutes (total) at least. However, he is his own person.
    March 4, 2008 9:59 AM
    Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie,I feel like I would be able to give him a more consistent nap time each cycle if I did the time frames. Can I tell you his pattern and see what you think? Because basically his cues start within 30 seconds of finishing eating. He finishes eating, leans back and looks content, then lets out a big yawn and the cues start. They just go on a spectrum. He starts out getting jumpy looking, trying to push himself onto his back, batting his hand, sticking out his tongue, increased breathing, then grow to where he just seriously looks anxious and likes he has ants in his pants!, then he'll suck on his fingers and cry, then when it's really bad he cries, kicks his legs, and sneezes at the same time! (randomly!) But these cues usually start out very mild right after eating and just grow as the time progresses. Anyway, I really just want to get this somewhat down, so he has a consistent waketime each cycle and we can really establish the feed/wake/sleep. His nights have been so messed up the last week, and it's really starting to freak us out. He used to go 4-4.5 hr stretches at night when we kept him up for 1.5 hr waketimes, now he's at 2.45 min- 3 hour cycles during the night. And it's changing every night. Maybe because I've been changing the waketimes almost every cycle of the day trying to figure this out?What do you think?
    March 4, 2008 10:30 AM
    Catherine said...
    P.S. I am starting to wonder if the only reason he ever slept that long at night was because he was totally crashing from us keeping him up way too long.Also last night both the naps that he had 1 hr waketime exactly he fell asleep after crying 9-10 minutes, the second nap he made it over 2 hrs, I had to wake him up for the dreamfeed. Does this mean anything? This morning he was awake for one hour 6 minutes, and he cried at first and has been crying intermittently for the last 30 min.
    March 4, 2008 10:34 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    I am wondering if he is having some sort of medical issue. Either gas, some intolerance to something you are eating, reflux...It just sounds like he isn't content after eating.It is possible to have disruptions in night because the day is not as consistent anymore. Keep working on it--you will get there!Keep track of wake time lengths and see what works at what time of day. It sounds like he is getting it. I am not sure what you are asking about waking him for the DF. It would indicate that he is sleeping better, but not that he is ready to drop it--you want to wait until he sleeps 9-10 hour stretches consistently.Basically sleeps from dreamfeed until your desired waketime.Like I said, a couple of minutes can make a huge difference. If one hour he sleeps well, but one hour six minutes he doesn't, make sure to get him down by one hour. Good luck!
    March 4, 2008 1:39 PM
    Catherine said...
    Thanks- I will definitely look into the potential medical issue. For a little bit his cues would start exactly 10 minutes into his waketime, but that was when we were keeping him awake 50-55 min for a feed. Since I changed his eating pattern they have been almost immediate- like I said, he comes off, looks happy, lets out a yawn, and they start.Anyway, I will def. keep track of wake time lengths- what I meant about mentioning the DF was wondering if him sleeping well two times after being awake for 1 hr. meant anything, not if I should drop the DF. Can I ask you another question? I posted this elsewhere under night time sleeping but it's really giving us a hard time. At night I feed him, and then he falls asleep on me, or I move him to where I'm holding his head in my lap. I get up to put him in the crib and he jostles a bit, but as soon as I lower him on his back to put him down into the crib I hear him startle and he's wide awake. I tried to let him CIO the other night, but he was awake crying for 1.5 hrs. and never could get himself to sleep- finally he was so worked up and tired I had to put him in the swing. Anyway, this has been happening the last few weeks- I'm not sure what to do! I don't want to rock him or do anything to get him dependent on me putting him to sleep @ night- what do I do? This happened every night time feed last night, and I feel like it really messes things up because he ends up going into the crib eyes wide open. Just like during the day. Anyway, what do you think?
    March 4, 2008 4:43 PM
    Catherine said...
    P.S. I should mention that previously, whenever I would hear him jostle (he really started doing this after he exited the I'm a sleepy newborn will not wake up for anything no matter what- even a diaper change phase) after putting him in the crib, and I felt like he came somewhat close to not being able to fall right asleep, I would pick him up and feed him until he finally would go in the crib and sleep. Now that I think about it, was I just soothing him back to sleep through unnecessary feeding? Have I trained him that if he can't get to sleep after being jostled at night, don't worry, because Mommy will come rescue you? The other night after I let him CIO for 1.5 hours after him waking up going into the crib- I even tried to do this- I fed him, it had been 2 hours since previous feeding, not enough for at night, but I did anyway, and I still couldn't calm him down, he was sooo tired. It took 10 minutes of wailing in his swing before he finally slept. Do I just need to let him CIO for a few sleepless nights? Once he succeeds with CIO @ night, will he ever get to the place where he will fall back asleep at night w/out crying if he does get jostled?I am confused, but just do NOT want to train him that if he wakes up at night and can't fall back asleep, mommy will come rescue him with comfort food! Is that what I've been teaching him? Ahhhh! :) What do you think?
    March 4, 2008 5:17 PM
    Catherine said...
    P.S. This is happening during the DF and the middle of the night feeds where he wakes me.
    March 4, 2008 5:18 PM
    Sara Louise! said...
    Catherine-I've been reading your posts and thought I may have a suggestion for the nights when cio doesn't seem to work. I am a Babywise mom and my 7 week old slept 9 hours last night! While I LOVE Babywise, I also read The Baby Whisperer and she suggests doing what you need to soothe a crying baby- rocking, pacifier, holding- then placing them back in the crib as soon as they stop crying. This calms them down, but still teaches them that they have to get themselves to sleep. She said one night she picked up a baby 130+ times, then the next night it was 40+, then less the next night, and by 3 nights the baby was trained. This is just an idea but hope it helps!Maggie (Sara Louise's mom)
    March 4, 2008 5:48 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    If he is sleeping well after one hour of waketime, I would stick with that and see how it goes.I did respond to the question under night time sleep. (here is the link to that post: Nighttime Sleep Issues: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nightime-sleep-issues.html).You are really going to have to figure out what works best for him. Some babies can handle parents coming in. Some can handle being rocked. Some cannot. I do like this advice when figuring out at what point to interfere. If you go in and baby calms immediately, you likely interfered too quickly. If it takes baby a long time to calm down, you waited too long. If it takes about 4-6ish minutes, you hit it just right. You really don't want your baby to get to the point that he can't calm down. If you can't calm him, he certainly can't calm himself. I like the ideas of Maggie. I know that wouldn't have worked for my son, though. You have to figure out what is best for your son. Keep trying things out, don't worry. Thanks Maggie for your added input!
    March 4, 2008 9:54 PM
  • Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie, Hope you are doing well. We are making good progress but I had a question. My son has been sleeping great 4/5 of his naps- actually now that we have moved waketime down to 30 min he has been sleeping 2- 2.5 hrs 4 naps a day! (3 on a bad day.) Anyway, we just can't seem to get the first nap of the day down. He goes down without crying and just make little noises to himself for 30-45 minutes before finally starting to cry. Once he cries he will cry the duration of the nap, one day he fell asleep the last 15 min. but that was it. This has been happening for about 5 or 6 days now. I have tried putting him in a swing, the stroller, all to no avail. He is definitely a no-interference type. It just makes it so much worse for him when I try to help him get some sleep in the nap after he's been crying over an hour straight. It actually seems to mess up all his naps the entire day when I do that! Did that ever happen to you? Anyway, do I need to perhaps shorten this one waketime by a few minutes? Either way do I have any other options besides CIO? It doesn't feel like I do, but I do want him to get some sleep at this nap in the future.
    March 11, 2008 12:21 PM
  • Plowmanators said...
    Catherine,Yes, that happened to me. My son was the same way. I could not interfere with him at all. If I did, it threw him off for days.The first waketime of the day is often the shortest. I would start by shortening it and see how it goes. Even 5 minutes can make a difference.
    March 12, 2008 9:56 AM
  • Shawna said...
    We have just started CIO during naps. DS will cry for 10 min. when I put him down the he will wake up after about 30-45 min. He is 5.5 months and sleeping 11 hours at night. He is on a 3.5hr. schedule. He does great at night, but we are having napping issues and decide to try CIO. How long do you think it will take him to go down for a nap and not cry? Thanks so much!Shawna
    July 1, 2008 8:06 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    As I say in this post, I would plan on 8 weeks. It might even be longer since you started later, though it could also be less time if your DS learns quickly and already has some self-soothing ability. Remember to be consistent. Plan on two weeks of a lot of difficulty before you see big improvement overall.
    July 5, 2008 3:30 PM
  • Lorri said...
    So I'm not sure if I should leave a really long comment about what I'm doing, but Catherine did so here it goes:My son, 3 months old sounds much like yours did-power naps 20-40 minutes seemed all he would do. I started putting him down groggy, but not asleep-although it seems I have to rock him to get him to be groggy otherwise he goes from awake to mad.He started sleeping 1 hour but still wakes up screaming his head off. Does this indicate he isn't done with his nap. Babywise says to not rush in, he might surprise you and cry for only 10 minutes and go back to sleep-he cries for another 30 and is no where near going back to sleep.It could be that at 3 months old he is still getting up at night. The pediatrician says to still give him the late night feeding-10pm- because he lost a ton of weight when he was in the hospital with pneumonia. But otherwise from there should be able to go till 7am. First of all, he eats at 7am 10am 1pm 4pm and 7pm and 10pm pretty consistently only varying 30 minutes at most here and there. After his 7pm feeding we've done trial and error as far as when then to put him to bed. We've let him stay up till 8pm right before he shows sleepy signs, we've put him right to bed after eating and everywhere between. But we have yet to have him fall asleep before the 10pm feeding. He just cries and fusses until 10pm. Most of the time my husband brings him out and lets him fall asleep on his chest on the couch.I then feed him at 10pm and put him down in his bassinet, and he falls right to sleep.But our son also still gets up every 3 hours during the night too. We even stopped feeding him, we would pat him on the back and give him a pacifier and he would go back to sleep within 20 minutes. This went on for a whole week. We knew that he wasn't hungry at those times, thats not why he was waking. We noticed that it was around 1am 3-3:30am and 5am that he would wake up.I know babywise says that some babies will wake up and talk to themselves for up to an hour, but he doesn't wake up talking, he wakes up crying.We decided that it was time to end this habit of waking up through the night. We checked with the pediatrician and he is healthy and gaining weight fine to cut out the morning feeding.Here is how his naps use to go:The 8am nap (he cant be up for more than an hour before he gets cranky) he cries for 40mins then went to sleep for another hour but like I said wakes up crying. I figured it was because he isn't sleeping through the night-but isnt going to be able to make up for that sleep in one nap. But after that one hour, he is DONE. I leave him there for 30 mins to cry and then go in and feed him. He also seems to become dependent on a pacifier and im not sure if I should break that habit at the same time. When it falls out of his mouth he wakes up...Then the same thing for the 11am nap and 2pm nap. When he gets up at 3-4ish he won't go back to sleep before his 7pm feeding. And then wont sleep before 10pm feeding either so he is awake from 4-10pm.I decided this all needed to stop. He needs his sleep. - Yesterday I put him down groggy at 8am. He cries for the 40mins and then sleeps 1 1/2 hours. - Wakes up like a demon screaming. I let him go for 30 minutes. I calm him down and soothe him then he eats. Play with him till 10:40. He gets groggy on his own.- Put him down for his 11am nap and he cries 40 minutes then sleeps another 1 1/2 hours. Wakes up crying, not screaming. Calm him and feed him at the 1pm time.- Play with him till 1:40 he gets groggy on his own again put him down and he sleeps 2 hours and 15 minutes. Wakes up crying. I soothe him.- 5pm I feed him.Dad comes home, we go for a walk in the stroller. He takes a 30 minute nap. Put him down in his bed, he wakes up and cries till 8pm feeding.-Feed him at 8pm massage him, put him in pajamas and he is asleep by 8:30pm. - Wake him up for 10pm feeding-give him the bottle with 4 oz. Because it is just 2 hours since he last ate. He normally eats 5 oz out of bottle-Dr. says he eats way more than the avg. kid his age and is amazed...- He barely wakes up to eat, eats all 4 oz though and then quietly goes back to sleep till 11:30pm.- 11:30pm he wakes up cries until 12:00 midnight then falls asleep.12:15am wakes up crying, screams till 1:30am.Wakes up at 3:30am crying, screams until 4:30am.Wakes up at 6am screaming. Our goal was to have him go 8 hours through the night, I can't stand him screaming so I feed him and have this be his get up time.Notice how I said screaming instead of crying too. This child has screamed himself to the point of gagging and choking for minutes on end. He does actually hit a lull every now and again where it dies down to a whimper and you can hear him sucking his fingers. But then he gags himself or if watching on the monitor you seem him start to close his eyes, his whole body will jerk and he wakes himself back up and the screaming continues.Swaddle-he finds it a game. You can swaddle him and he will cry and grunt and work on getting out of the swaddle rather than fall asleep. For the first 6 weeks of life, my husband, myself and any of the nurses had yet to put him in a swaddle he didn't get out of. At 2 weeks of age, the pediatrician said he had the muscle reflex and strength of a 2 month old, holding his head, scooting, standing by himself only propped up on something to help him keep his balance. So he sees the swaddle as something to get out of.Right now I put him down at 6:30am because he was still super sleepy and he slept till 9:15 and woke up without crying. I fed him, played with him and at 10:30 picked him up, carried him to his bed and put him down. He fell asleep without a peep. It is now 12noon.Do I wake him to feed him at 12:30? Because he screamed through the night, he shouldn't be rewarded with sleeping in during the day-he should learn to sleep at night right?Any help/suggestions/support would be great. My email is lorri@copperrain.comMy blog is www.momsadvice.wordpress.comWhen people described CIO they say how their little one cried for hours before they fell asleep, but they never say if their little one stayed asleep then? You would think after 1 1/2 hours of crying he would fall asleep and stay asleep.
    August 8, 2008 12:04 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Lorri,I answered many of these questions on your CIO posts, so I will address other points here.I would guess one reason he is having such a hard time right now is you are both weaning him from the paci AND starting CIO. Understand that because of this, things will be harder than they would for a baby who is not used to having a paci. See this post:Pacifiers : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/pacifiers.html 1.5 hours is an acceptable length of nap. I don't think he is going to go back to sleep after a 1.5 hour nap. I would get him up and continue on with your day.Transferring a sleeping baby from a stroller to a bed is rarely going to work. I would just leave him in the stroller and put the stroller in a safe place.My son wouldn't be swaddled either, and the jerking reflex would wake him. Your son should outgrow this in the next month.I would wake him at 12:30 to stay on schedule and get the number of feeds in in the day he needs.It does sound like there has been improvement. Hang in there!
    August 11, 2008 11:06 AM
  • JamieT said...
    I have a four and a half month little boy and have just started reading your blog. Thanks for all of the great information. After many sleepless months, we have decided to try CIO. I am nursing and we just started this a few days ago with my son for naps and bedtime. He is going down for naps beautifully! We put him in awake and there is no crying anymore and he will sleep for about an hour and a half three times a day (and one short nap in the evening). He will also go to sleep with just a few minutes of crying, but then right to bed. However, he does not stay asleep. He wakes up every 2-3 hours. I put him to bed around 7:00 pm, feed him at 10:00 (when he wakes up), but let him CIO when he wakes up after that. I used to feed him throughout the night to get him back to sleep, but he wasn't really eating at those times- just using me as a pacifier. However, since we started CIO, I have been feeding him when he wakes up crying (and then screaming) at 4:00am and then he sleeps until 7. Since we have started to CIO and he gets 6 feedings a day (7, 10, 1, 4, 7, 10), should I let him CIO at the 4 am time slot? I want his wake up time to remain at 7 and I'm not sure if he will make it until then. What do you think? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!
    August 11, 2008 11:23 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    You can certainly try it. I would be positive he isn't waking for any other reason before CIO. IF you aren't sure of that, you will interfere and slow the whole process down. See also this post:4 month Sleep Problems : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/4-month-sleep-problems.html
    August 11, 2008 11:12 PM
  • Cammon said...
    I really need some encouragement. I have been doing CIO for naps for 4 weeks now. Since then it has ONLY gotten worse. He also use to only get up 1 maybe 2 times at night and for the past 4 days its been every hour. I now feed my 4 month old who has slept through the night 3 nights in a row and that is all, 2 times a night.Right now this is the averages out of a 12 hours from 7am to 7pm:He is awake for 4.5 hours7-8am10-11am1-2pm4-5pmsometimes 6-6:30pmOut of those times, there is 20mins for feeding/diaperingHe sleeps for a total of 3 hours a day. He constantly wakes up 45min into his napHe cries for 4 hours and talks/complains for 30mins.I really really don't know if I can go on with him crying as much as he is awake. I've tried EVERYTHING.He doesn't cry going down for a nap or for bedtime any more. He puts himself to sleep but is constantly waking during naps. I've set the rule that he has to stay in bed for 1 1/2 hours so he sleeps abt 40mins wakes up and cries till we reach that mark. Then I take him out of bed and put him in his swing where he cries till its time to eat.Please tell me it is going to get better. NOTHING is working
    September 3, 2008 10:21 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    It sounds to me like things are getting better. He isn't crying before naps or bedtime anymore. My guess is he is going through a growth spurt and is waking because he is hungry. Have you treated his waking as a hunger problem? That is the first thing to check. See this post for more ideas: 4 month Sleep Problems : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/4-month-sleep-problems.html
    45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.html
    Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
    September 8, 2008 12:56 PM
  • Ken and Rachael said...
    Hi, Thanks so much for your blog!! I have found the posts incredibly helpful in learning how to parent my 3 month old. I am writing because we tried CIO at naps and bedtime from around 3 weeks. (He is generally good at bedtime - naps are harder.) Carter is a VERY high-strung, high-needs baby who tends to be fussy, demanding, wants to be held and walked CONSTANTLY, and has a lot of endurance when left to cry. With CIO we figured it would get better over time, but he was very inconsistent - some naps it would be 2 straight hours of screaming, others it would be 1 hour, then down to 30 min, then, 2 hours again. Over the course of a month there seemed to be no improvement whatsoever - he merely lost his voice and became much more grumpy during the day because he was barely sleeping at all! We tried adjusting the schedule, waketime, etc, and really couldn't make it work. After a while it was so exhausting for everyone we gave up and started rocking him to sleep again. Now he is 3 months and 13 lbs (which means he is heavy to carry!). He is extremely visual, and gets easily overstimulated - sometimes when he is tired he merely needs you to walk into a dark room or cover his eyes and he is asleep in seconds. It's like he can't shut himself off! I feel this is what's happening when he's left to CIO - he can't physically shut down and works himself into a complete frenzy that even WE can't calm him from after we go get him. I guess my question is... should we try CIO again? Does it 'work' for all babies, even those who have been high-needs since the moment they were born? Are we asking him to do something he just "can't" do, or is it merely that he needs to learn how, even if it means weeks of screaming and poor or no daytime sleep?Also, how can we know what he needs in terms of naps? He used to be on a fairly regular 3 hour schedule with many 1-hour naps, but now is seeming to want to do a longer nap in the morning, a longer nap in the afternoon, with a few shorter ones in there too. As his needs change, how do we know what he needs? I don't want to "force" him to lay in his crib crying at a time when he doesn't need a nap because he is growing out of that one.Sorry this is long - thanks for any help you can provide! My husband and I will be so grateful for your counsel.Yours, Rachael
    October 7, 2008 9:03 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Rachel, CIO--I do think CIO can work for every child. Some children might be harder to figure out than others. I think you ultimately have to decide if you want to try again. He might have an easier time now that he is older. If you do decide to try again, be sure to read through the CIO Bootcamp post on this blog.For naps for a 3 month old, he needs a nap after each cycle. So he eats, he plays, he sleeps. This should mean he has 4 naps a day right now (I consider the "nap" after the 7pmish feeding to be bedtime). Around 4 months (some a little younger, some older) he should drop that 4th nap if he is still on a 3 hour schedule and just not sleep between the 4ish feeding and 7ish feeding. Be sure to see posts under "Dropping Things" in the blog index.
    October 9, 2008 1:10 PM

23 comments:

Jaxsonsmom said...

hello, i am new to the blog, my question is 2 fold. first, i am trying cio for my almost 4 month old, bc at 12 weeks he started waking up in at 2/3 am when he had been sttn, i treated it like a growth spurt and would feed him, then it lasted 2 weeks and i would just go in and give him a paci, and when he would wake in the middle of his naps i would go in and give him his paci again (it would sometimes be 4 or 5 times per nap and his room is up stairs!) i created a monster!!! who loves his paci. so now i am trying cio and will give him his paci when he lays down and if he takes it out or it falls out i do not go in and put it back in and he cries almost the entire nap. bed time is not as bad although he cried from 430-6am when i went in and feed him. my question is am i doing this right?? And my second question is what do i do with my in-laws they insist on rocking him to sleep and do not believe in BW, and they sometimes have to keep him when my sitter is not able too. any suggestions on what to do?? Thank you so very much for this site!

Plowmanators said...

Jaxsonsmom,

For the paci, it sounds like you are taking the right road.

For the inlaws...if you have absolutely no other options then I would say you can't do anything about it. Hopefully as he gets good at falling asleep on his own and they could put him down without him crying they will be willing to do so. Tell them it is fine to cuddle him, but he needs to go into his bed awake. I personally wouldn't want someone being in charge of CIO who wouldn't follow through because it wouldn't be done right. Also, children learn quickly who does what. My kids know grandma has different rules that I don't allow. They are smart.

Kelli said...

I have a 5 week old and have done babywise since day 1, but now she is having trouble settling down for her naps...I let her cry it out for 30 minutes and she is still unable to get herself to sleep...I can put her in the swing and she will sleep until the next feeding on a 3 hour schedule. She is going 5 hours at night and goes down without a fuss and feeds in the middle of the night without a fuss/right back to sleep. However, we cannot get her to nap in her crib with CIO, I have backed her wake time from 1 hour to 45 minutes, to basically eating time at 30 minutes, no change...should I let her cry longer than 30 minutes. I did babywise with my 2 year-old and know that it pays off greatly, but am struggling with this little one on CIO...I never had to let me other one cry for even one 30 minute time. Please let me know what you think...I am going to keep trying the CIO even for longer than 30 minutes if I have to.

Thanks,
Kelli

christina.price said...

I have a 16 week old baby, and I started babywise scheduling from birth. However, I did not start to let him cio until he was 11 weeks old due to a very bad hernia. I have a 3 year old that I did babywise with, and he sleeps like a pro and has since he was 10 weeks old. This baby is throwing me for a loop. At 5 weeks old, I was doing the same exact schedule, and he was sleeping 6 to 7 hour stretches at night. Now he is only going from 10pm. to 2am every night. He has been doing this since he was about 12 weeks old. He goes down for all of his naps with no problems what so ever. No crying at all. He does wake about 45 minutes into them, so I go in and reswaddle, and he goes back to sleep. If you have any suggestions on this it will be greatly appreciated. My biggest problem is that he is not sleep through the night. I tried cutting back on the amount he was eating at 2am, and it only made him wake a couple hours later. I tried cio for 5 nights with no improvements. He would cry for 2-3 hours until I would get up and give him a few ounces to drink. I have also tried to feed him more during the day with no luck. He is also now starting to not take his dreamfeed. His schedule looks like this.
7:00 feed
7:50 nap
10:00 feed
11:00 nap
1:00 feed
2:00 nap
4:00 feed
5:30 nap
7:00 feed to bed
10:00 dreamfeed (he use to take and now does not want at all)

Help!! I am so confused, and I have done this before. I feel like I have made the situation worse than it was before I tried the cio in the middle of the night.

I really need help knowing what to do about the naps. Am I doing the right thing by reswaddling after 45 minutes or should I let him cio, but he goes right back to sleep after I reswaddle him. Also at night when I did let him cio those five nights. I would go in and reswaddle him every 15- 20 minutes. Last night I was so exhausted, I just went in and fed him a few ounces again at 2am, and he was back up at 4:45. Thanks for this blog and any advise that you have for me.

Plowmanators said...

Kelli,

I would try to figure out why she is now crying. It might be as simple as needing to relearn how to sleep. But 1 hour 45 minutes is definitely too long for a 5 week old. Even my 6 month old can't do that for every waketime. It should still be less than one hour for her now at 7 weeks old.

Check into reflux. She also might have been going through a growth spurt. Some babies need to eat every 2 hours while growth spurting, and since she was up almost that long, she might have been having a hard time falling asleep because of it.

Plowmanators said...

Christina, the first thing to check is a growth spurt.

As for night wakings, if he is hungry, feed him. Since he slept worse after not getting as much food, that tells you he needs the food.

Babies have normal time periods where they wake up early.

If I were you, I would dedicate a few days to feeding him every time he wakes up early and as soon as he wakes in the night. If it is a growth spurt, then after 3-7 days, he will be able to go back to sleeping well. If not, you can move on to other solutions, but at least you will know for sure it isn't a hunger issue.

Jen said...

Our baby is 5 weeks old and we have been doing CIO for 2.5 weeks. She was doing great for about 1 week, but now she is crying for most of her naps. I have read through CIO bootcamp and many of your readers comments to look for help, but I decided to just ask my questions directly. My questions are: She is falling asleep (for the most part) easily by herself. If she falls asleep easily, but wakes after 30-40 minutes of napping, do I let her CIO for the remainder of the time or just get her up? I am using a 3 hour schedule, so waketime (including feeding) for an hour, then napping for 2. Sometimes she does nap for the whole 2 hours, but most of the time its less. Should I assume she will eventually sleep longer? Thanks for your help.

Plowmanators said...

Jen, for now, feed her as soon as she wakes up.

She is either waking early because she is hungry or because she is just learning ot sleep on her own and doesn't know how to self-soothe through the transitions (those would be the two most common reasons at her age). I would first feed her to be sure it isn't a growth spurt. If she takes a full feeding, keep feeding her. If not, help her fall back asleep through this transition period. I don't recommend CIO mid-nap at that age.

Jen said...

Thanks for your response. She takes a full feeding every 3 hours and seems fine when we put her down. If we do get her up after she takes a short nap, do we start her wake time then and then put her down again in another hour. That would make her on a much shorter routine. I guess my question first should be, what is the goal with a baby this age? I see with your 2nd that you did CIO right off the bat. Am I being too structured for her age? Am I correct to have her on a 3 hour schedule? Her pediatrician was agreeable to this, so that's what I went with. Also, at night she has been sleeping well (3-3.5 hour streches), but for the past week, she has been waking every 2 hours. I've been feeding her every time she wakes at night. Another question...if this is a growth spurt, how do I know when it's over. When it's over, do I CIO then? Sorry for all the questions...I just feel a bit lost and confused. Thanks for your guidance.

Jen said...

She is now 7 weeks old and we are continuing to CIO. Following your advice, we woke her when she cried and fed her. She was, seemingly, going through a growth spurt. However, we went back to her normal schedule the middle of last week, trying to get her to sleep the whole 2 hours. She falls asleep without crying most every time, but always wakes up 20-60 minutes into her nap. She can't always be going through a growth spurt, so how do we treat this if it is just behavioral? If I don't let her CIO after a short nap and get her up, how will she ever take a full nap or stick to a 3 hour schedule. Also, if you feel she is too young to CIO after a nap, at what age is it ok?

Thanks for your help.

Plowmanators said...

Jen, first, let me be sure to make sure you don't think of her waking early as some sort of defiance toward you--I am not saying you are, but just want to make sure you don't.

It is possible that she was going through a growth spurt, but now needs to get used to taking long naps again.

Is her night sleep better again?

Growth spurts happen every 3-4 weeks, so keep that in mind. They can take a week, so you might only have two weeks off. I know it is tiring, but they seem to chill out more between 4-6 months ;)

So, I think you need to be sure there is not gas or reflux pain that is waking her.

After that, I suggest you see the post

Waking Early from naps/won't fall asleep for naps.

So far as what age to start CIO mid-nap, that is for you to decide. I don't like it in young ages because you are just getting to know them and they have growth spurts so often that it can becomea slippery slope. They are also just learning to self-soothe and need some time to get good at it. Also, I am pretty sure BW says not to do it until around 5 months? 4 months? I can't remember for sure.

Jen said...

I don't feel like she is being defiant. I'm aware that babies are unable to manipulate or intentionally frustrate.

She is sleeping great at night now. She wakes up once, sleeping about 5 hour streches. This was after we decided to implement an extra feeding and a final late night wake time. It seems to be working.

When she wakes up early, usually it's with a few noises and then gradually works up to a cry. When she initially wakes up, she seems to be just squirming trying to free her arms from the swaddle. (I'm not completely convinced she likes the swaddle, but I am continuing to swaddle to avoid her waking herself up.) She will make the squirming noises for about 3 minutes and then start making bursts of "cries". Then eventually she is crying full out.

I don't remember what it said about mid-nap CIO in the BW book. I don't remember it saying much at all about CIO pre naps either, just to expect "some" (LOL). I'll have to re-read my copy.

So, now that she is 7 weeks (8 weeks in 2 days), you would suggest that I get her up when she wakes up crying after a 20-60 minute nap? If I get her up, do I then feed her or do I wait until the cycle dictates a feeding time? How is this not creating a habit? How will she learn to sleep longer without just crying and expecting to be picked up? I guess I don't understand how this fits into the babywise model.

I read the post you suggested and again, I don't understand how the swing isn't a sleep prop or the feeding early doesn't create that habit.

I hope you understand how much I respect your advise and experience. I don't mean any disrespect, I am just trying to sort out this particualr issue. I've received so much help from your site thus far through reading your answers to other questions. I'm just a new mom trying to sort out this BW thing. Thanks so much for your help!

Plowmanators said...

I *think* the CIO mid-nap part is in the second BW book, but i am not sure. And your memory about the CIO in the first book is pretty much the basics of what it says on CIO--there isn't much :)

Do you have a video monitor? With my third, she would start to cry after 20 minutes, but I had a video monitor and knew she hadn't been asleep yet. In that case, we did CIO.

The reason for avoiding CIO mid-nap at that young of an age is that there are so many growth spurts going on that you could cause a situation of her not getting the food she needs. You are also getting to know her, and if this is your first experience with a baby in general, you have lots to learn before being sure of the reason for crying.

I think it is fine to give her 10 minutes or so to see if she will settle back down, but I wouldn't go to full-on CIO until she falls back asleep.

Another reason I don't CIO mid-nap at the young age is they can quickly become overly tired because they aren't getting the sleep they need and a bad cycle begins. Plus, they are just learning to sleep on their own and might not have the skills to fall back asleep after their power nap.

The swing could become a prop. As could a pacifier, rocking, bouncy chair...whatever. It definitely can and that is something to watch for.

With newborns, I have a heirarchy of sleep goals. The first is that they get their sleep they need. That is #1 importance. Second is that they can fall asleep on their own. Third is they can stay asleep on their own. Good luck with it all!

Theresa said...

Please help. My son is 13 weeks old (10 by adusted age) and my husband and I have just begun cio, mostly because he is just too big for me to bounce to sleep everytime. I'm confused on how to know when to let him cio and when to get him. Right now he is waking to eat at about 7 pm and then going down for the night at 8 pm. The problem is, that he doesn't sleep, but rather cries till 10 pm, I nurse him then and put him back down. He then cries until he is exhausted (about midnight) and falls asleep. Once he is down for the night he wakes to nurse, but goes right back down. I can't figure out why he is having such a hard time in the evening? Also, since we have started this (and granted we just returned home from a long Christmas trip) his naps during the day have mostly been only 30 minutes long. On that note, would it be wise for me to soothe him and get him to take a good nap beforing trying to cio again or is it better to be consistent and hope that he figures it out on his own? It is so hard to listen to him cry!

Plowmanators said...

Theresa, be sure to read through the "CIO Bootcamp revised and updated" really well.

He might have a hard time with the evening because he is overly tired by then from a long day.

It is normal for naps to be short at first. As they get better at self-soothing, they will get longer.

When he wakes early right now, I would soothe him back to sleep to get a full nap in, but I would start pretty much every nap in the crib unless you really feel like he needs to be held to get a good nap in.

One thing you might do is spend a couple of days getting him caught up on sleep before you jump into CIO.

Sarah M said...

Thank you for your blog! I've been reading it from day one. I now have a 7 mo old and am experiencing nap problems. We started CIO when Lauren was 1 mo old. By 3-4 mos, she was a pro napper. However, at 5 mos, she started waking early from naps (I think it was a calorie thing). Because I'm a piano teacher and teach in my home, I needed to keep her on a tighter schedule. I wanted her nap schedule to stay on target so she wouldn't be awake during my lessons. So, I'd go in an rock her back to sleep or nurse her so her schedule wouldn't be thrown off.

Now, we've gotten into a bad habit. My great self-soother cannot fall asleep for naps on her own anymore. I think we just need to do CIO all over again. But now she'll cry for over an hour and get so worked up. Any suggestions? Also, she HATES her third nap. Sometimes she doesn't take it. But, when she's tired and I know it will be a long day for her, is it okay if I rock her to sleep for just that catnap? If I don't she just won't take it. Thanks for the advice!

Plowmanators said...

Sarah M,

First, yes, it is okay to rock for that last nap so long as it doesn't interfere with her other naps.

For the other two, I would get super consistent and go back to basic CIO Bootcamp. She will get it faster than she initially did because she already has the skills. However, the first day at least will probably be rough.

Joan said...

Hi Valerie, Thank you so much for your blog. I've been reading entries/comments for the last eight weeks and they've been a tremendous help! I had a really quick question before I started CIO with my 8 week old. I couldn't find any other blogs/read comments on this. He's been on a 2.5-3 hour schedule since birth. We swaddle him for naps and night time sleeping. Would you recommend keeping him swaddled for CIO or leaving one arm out? I'm not sure if he'll be able to learn to self soothe if he's completely swaddled up. We currently use a pacifier and when we CIO, we plan on implementing a no insertion policy after it falls out. Thank you so much!

Unknown said...

Hello! I've have been reading your blog for a few months now, and it's such a valuable resource, thank you!

My daughter is exactly 8 months old. We have been applying BW principles since birth, including the sleep/wake/eat/play cycle and laying her down to bed in her bassinet while awake, according to her optimal sleep time.

However, there were some BW principles that we started late, like CIO. Like I said, she didn't need it if we got her to bed on time. But if she woke early, we would rock (er, bounce her to sleep using a big inflated exercise ball), and if we got her to sleep late, we would bounce her until she was fully asleep, then lay her in her bed. Usually, she would wake and cry for a few seconds, then drift back to sleep.

She has never stuck to a solid schedule. Sometimes it seems like even if I get her down to sleep on time, she makes noise in her bed and then starts crying and won't stop. Sometimes she wakes early, and despite my cry it out efforts, she will not fall back asleep on her own.

Today, I think I got her down to sleep 5 min. past her optimal waketime (I think 1 hour 40 min.), and she made noise for a while, then cried...I tried letting her CIO for 45 min, but it wasn't letting down. So, I tried bouncing her, it took maybe 10 min to fall asleep in my arms, but when I laid her down she woke up and stayed awake. I tried this 2 more times and each time she fell asleep in my arms but would not fall back asleep in her bed. Her bed is a play pen, by the way, maybe this is a factor. But she has been sleeping in it for a couple months after her bassinet.

My question really is, if she doesn't fall asleep right away on her own, reason possibly being because she is overtired, should I let her cry it out? Or should I bounce her to sleep?

Her morning naps I usually get her to bed on time and she sleeps without a fuss, usually not more than 1.5 hours, but occasionally is a 2 hour nap.

Her 2nd nap is usually the awful one where she'll either not fall asleep on her own or wake early, after maybe 45 min. to an hour.

Her 3rd nap has been also been hard--she won't fall asleep by herself, and this past week has been really cranky but won't fall asleep for it at all.

Nighttime is fine, she'll fall asleep on her own and usually sleeps for 12 hours. Last night she woke up though and cried for maybe 15-20 min. then fell back asleep on her own.

I am at a loss at what to do. I feel like I've kept myself home with her for the past maybe 5 months trying to get her on a schedule. There aren't many disruptions to her routine, though we do go to church every Sunday for 3 hours in the middle of the day.

She's been eating solids (baby led weaning), but maybe not eating enough because sometimes she just isn't interested in the food. I usually feed her solids an hour after her waketime, maybe I need to do it right after nursing.

Will I have to bounce her every time I go 5 min. after her optimal waketime? Forever? Or will that end? Should I let her cry it out? If I do, it seems she just will never fall asleep and I always give up and go bounce her to sleep. It's getting very frustrating.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Unknown said...

I should also add about my 8 month old daughter, that she has always hated the swing, never took to a pacifier, but does suck on her finger to self sooth and/or fall asleep.

I also know that she can go 4 hours in between nursings, though sometimes I feed her earlier than 4 hours because she wakes up earlier, and so sometimes I feed her 5 times in a day rather than 4.

Thanks again!

Plowmanators said...

Joan,

I swaddled during CIO. I stopped swaddling when the child showed signs of being ready for stopping swaddling. So long as he needs to be swaddled, do so :)

Plowmanators said...

Unknown,

I think it is possible she needs more calories.

I also think you might need to get your waketime length down better. I would focus on those two things first.

Unknown said...

Prior to the birth of my son, I had read several books to help prepare me for the first months of motherhood. Babywise stood out as a favorite and I fully intended to follow the principles of the book/philosophy. After having my son, I now realize and feel that the book really wasn't as clear/informative as I had thought about a couple basic issues. Therefore, I don't think I really implemented Babywise as I should have from the beginning and now would be considered a "late starter." I am glad I came across your blog for further advice and information. I would love to hear a few thoughts from you, specifically on what to do now as a late starter.

From the book, I didn't understand how exhausted one would truly be from caring for a newborn. This exhaustion put me in survival mode (and I am still somewhat there) and it greatly compromised my ability to implement the guidelines of Babywise.

The main principles I did understand and implemented:
1) Main goal, especially the first week- focus on a FULL feeding.
2) Try to maintain a consistent wake time every day. (not been perfect, but generally has been within 1/2 hour of 7:00)
3) Been trying to do the Feed/Wake/Sleep cycle

What I feel has been a struggle:
1) The book doesn't truly communicate that babies can have difficulty sleeping
2) And also doesn't communicate what to do when this occurs (besides mentioning it's okay to cry for sometimes 15, even 20 minutes..)

I had misunderstood that babies just sleep and CIO really comes later when they no longer need to eat in the middle of the night but still wake up to do so, so you CIO to get them to sleep through the night. Had no idea that CIO is really for ANY sleep time (naps, going to bed, going back to sleep if woken up, etc.). Right now, he, at 8 weeks, is still waking up about every 2-3 hours at night to nurse. (or I just interpret that if he wakes up, it's time to nurse? but maybe not and just needs help going back to sleep?) Naps I try to get him to sleep in his bassinet, but doesn't always work. Sometimes then I have him sleep next to me for a nap, or I have him in the baby carrier, or we go for a walk in the stroller.

OH, and the other struggle...with optimal waketime, what if he's been nursing for usually an hour? Sometimes 1 1/2 hours? I feel it's too long for him to be awake, but he still wants to nurse, and I think it probably contributes to a struggle in getting him to nap? Then if he's eating so long, I feel there's never time for actual wake time (to play/interact). Thoughts?

So basically, I'm wondering for someone who's baby is at 8 weeks now, what kind of game plan would you recommend for being a late starter? What steps to take? THANKS!

-Jolene

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