Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Using This Blog

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This blog is intended to be a quick reference to find answers to questions you encounter while implementing Babywise, Toddlerwise, Childwise, etc. See the Blog Index for a list of all articles on the blog. In the index, posts are grouped together in categories so you can quickly find what you are looking for. The blog index is linked on the top right corner of each page. You can also refer to the blog labels, listed on the right, to see all posts in a certain topic.

If you have a question or problem that is not addressed, simply ask it in the form of a comment on any post. I will respond directly to your comment on the same post. Please do try to find your answer in the many posts I have written before you ask a question. I spend hours answering questions each day. I am happy to answer them, but the more questions there are, the longer it takes to answer them, which means the longer the wait time before people receive answers.

If you are here to debate, please see my debate policy.

The current wait time for me to answer a question is about five days. If I haven't answered it within that time frame, I most likely was not notified of it. If so, simply comment again (on the same post) saying you posted a question. Please feel free to leave your own experiences and advice on the subject of the post also. The more the merrier.

You can subscribe to receive email notifications of posts by entering your email address on the right. Another option is to become a follower of the blog, which is also to the right. Enjoy!
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Edited 3-31-2009

Since I have a baby that is only a few days old, my response time to comments will be quite long. 90% of the answers I give are simply references to posts I have written, so you can more than likely find the answer to your question in this blog. I will answer questions as quickly as I can, but it will take some time as I attend to my family and heal :)

If you do ask a question and then later find the answer, it would be helpful if you posted a comment on the same post as your original question to let me know you no longer need help. Thanks so much for your patience at this time!

86 comments:

nicoletadman said...

Hi I am not sure if I am posting in the right place but I need help with my little one. I have been doing BW since she was born and so she started sleeping through the night like at 6 weeks. Anyways at about 4 months (she is now almost 5 months) of age she got a cold (well I think she did, symptoms: running, stuffy nose, still not sure too if it was relating to teething or if this problem is all due to teething) this caused her to to be disrupted in her sleep, to where she would normally go down no later than 9pm and wake up at 8am but now she fusses at around 1-2, and 5-6am but some nights it could different times throughout the night and multiple times during the night. I am positive she is not hungry because I already thought maybe she isn't getting enough at the last feeding before bedtime so started to pump to increase my milk supply (then fed her milk in a bottle in addition to the nursing but still was waking in the night) and introduced rice cereal but still no change. I also thought it was a mattress pad I placed on her bed at around the same time so I removed it but she still is having problems. I don't do CIO, she uses her paci which I go into her and put it in and she falls right back to sleep but it is interfering with my sleep alot (waking up 5 times in the night to go into her) and am not sure if I should feed her at 6 am but how do I get her back to sleeping 10-11 hrs when she was doing that no problem? Sorry for such a long post but I read the posts for the 4 month old problems and didn't find an answer as to how to retrain her to sleep without waking up and through till 8am which is our normal time to start our day. Thanks again, this site is alot of help. ~ Nicole

mommynik said...

Hi Again! I haven't posted in a long time, but I am subscribed to one of your threads about early wake-time or something. Here's my question - how frustrating is it for you when you realize someone hasn't read the BW book and they are looking for help? I know you have great ideas and if someone reads through the posts, they will generally understand BW, but seriously, how do you process all of these schedules and information about little ones?
I guess my question is more of a comment about your amazing patience. I don't think I could do it, especially if my babies were getting out of being babies :)
Good job on all that you post! Thank you for being a super resource!

Plowmanators said...

Nicole, the thing I see as the most likely problem is the pacifier. If you have to get up and put it back in over and over, then her problem is that she can't fall back asleep without it. All people, including babies, wake several times in the night. If they can't fall asleep without some external force then they are going to wake fully and request that external force to be given. There are a lot of babies who start out fine with the paci but then it turns into a major disruption.

So, you can either take it away and have her learn to sleep on her own, or continue to give it to her until she is able to find it and put it back in herself. I have read that happens around 6-8 months for most babies.

I would suggest you see the blog label "pacifier" for more.

Also, if you don't want to do CIO, you can look into the Baby Whisperer methods for teaching her to self-soothe.

Plowmanators said...

Mommynik,

It takes time to internalize the problems people are describing, but you soon see that there are common reasons for problems.

There are some things people could get from this blog without reading the book, but everything I write is on the premise that the book has been read and that there is a common foundation out there (except for the non-BW tips and the reviews of other books). You really can't expect the benefits of BW without actually reading BW yourself :)

Thanks for your thanks!

jrjones5876 said...

Hi! Love love the blog. My 6.5 week formula-fed baby gets 7 feedings a day every 2.5-3.5 hours. She gets up once in the night. Should I try to stick to every 3 hours in the day to encourage STTN? Or should I just wait and see what happens in next couple of weeks. She gets up about 7am usually too.

thanks!

Ruth Lee said...

Hi,
My name is Ruth Lee McLain and your blog is terrific! I have two boys 4(just turned 4) and 18months. My four year old has always been a pretty good nap taker due to the fact that he is so active! He usually sleeps for 2 1/2-3 hours when he naps. The last few weeks he has not been taking naps. He will play in his room even when there is nothing to play with. :) I have also tried making him stay in his room and just read books but he keeps coming out. At what age do kids stop taking naps? Even he is ready to stop taking naps does he still need room time and how do I keep him in his room?

Thanks,
Ruth Lee McLain
http://mclainmoments.blogspot.com

3BoysOhio said...

I love your blog and wish I would have known about it 4 years ago :) I used BW with my 4 year old twin boys and they were consistently STTN at 12 weeks (6 weeks premature). My 8 week old seems to be stuck at 3:30am. We have a very consistent 3 hour schedule during the day and a little closer to a 2.5 and a 2 hour feeding as the last feedings (6:30/7:00pm and 9:00pm). I apologize if you have already answered this, but I want to ensure you I spent quite some time looking for the answer and stumbled across a lot of other good info along the way. He is asleep by 10pm and many times I struggle to get a good feeding as he seems too tired (the book says they STTN and then drop the late evening feeding...I feel like I should drop this feeding and then STTN would happen?) and after the 3:30 am feeding he sleeps until our day starts at 7:30 am without an issue going down after this feeding. What do you recommend in order to get past this 3:30am feeding and make it to our 7:30 start? Thanks for your help!!!

Plowmanators said...

jrjones5876,

I would probably just wait and see what happens. You can always try to change the schedule if you want to, but it would really only be worth it if by going to three hours that meant you added a feeding to your day.

Plowmanators said...

Ruth Lee,

lol...I know the playing without having anything to play with. It is a big imagination time!

He is definitely at the age to not need to take naps anymore, but you still want to have rest time. This is about an hour-ish (you can go shorter or longer based on his needs) where he needs to be in bed and be quiet. You can give him books to look at. See the blog label "rest time" for more.

To keep him in his bed, it needs to be a matter of him obeying you. See this post for more on this:

Toddler/Child Getting Out of Bed : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/12/toddlerchild-getting-out-of-bed.html

You can also teach him how to read a clock--at least the time that rest time is over. Then he knows when it is acceptable to get out.

3BoysOhio said...

Ruth Lee,
My twin 4 year olds were having a hard time with getting out of their beds before it was time. I found a great clock (that can also be used for teaching later). It changes to Green when it is ok to get up. You can find it on Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/American-Innovative-Teach-Talking-Nightlight/dp/B0019IHE8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1237938678&sr=8-1
Hope that helps.

Plowmanators said...

3boysOhio,

lol...I wish I had known about this blog 4 years ago ;)

It depends on if he needs the 3:30 feeding or not. It sounds like he probably still does. If he eats well at 7:30, my guess is he is in need of that 3:30 feeding, unless it is pretty clockwork. For your twins to have STTN by 6 weeks adjusted is pretty good. Boys typically take longer to STTN, so your boy being 8 weeks and stil having one feeding sounds really normal to me.

If you think he doesn't need it for sure, see this post for ideas on how to drop it:

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

Plowmanators said...

3boysOhio,

Thanks for sharing about that clock! That sounds wonderful.

Myrna said...

My baby is 6 weeks old. We're trying to implement BW methods but not working well.

After staying awake for about 20 minutes after feeding, she cries and screams. I thought this meant, she was overstimulated and really needed the nap. Oftentimes she cries until we start the next cycle. Sometimes we start the next cycle early to stop the crying. I wonder if she's getting enough to eat. I think I have a low milk supply but I don't want to start feeding her every hour. It seems like the only thing that can console her is another feeding. We tried supplementing formula even up to 3 oz. but the same thing happens. Sometimes we get a break after about 3 cycles but I don't know if she just got tired from all the crying or if it's that she finally was satisfied with the feeding amount.

Any comments or suggestions?

jennifercarberry said...

Hi
First of allthank you sooo much for your site it has been soo helpful. I have read babywise several times and am following it with my 3 month old. However i am a little confused b/c it doesnt tell you exactly what the schedule should be at each time, so i am wondering if i have my daughter on the proper schedule. In the last week (week 12) i switched her from a 3 hour schedule to a 3.5 hr schedule. wake time is 7 am and her bedtime is 7 pm with a 9 oclock feeding and an 1130 feeding this was going pretty well for about a week but now she is starting to wake up early in her naps up to an hour early and sometimes in the morning around 6 i do let her cry it out and it usually works esp in the morn but i wanted o make sure i wasnt forcing her to sleep too much. And why she doesnt want to sleep her whole nap, even though i cant keep her up any longer then 1.5 hours at a time. then a 2hr nap. Does this sound right? she is 13 weeks.
Jennifer

Elyssa's mom said...

Hi and thank you so much for taking time to do this blog. What a help you are. My 3 month old had started sttn at 10 wks old and all of the sudden she is crying herself to sleep only at bedtime for up to 1.5 hours. Not sure what that's about. Also she is waking now at 4:30am and 5:30am. When she does this I only nurse her on one side and put her right back to bed and she goes to sleep immediately. I have her on a 3 hour schedule during the day and she goes down easily for her naps with no crying but is waking for her 2nd,3rd,and 4th nap. Her 1st morning nap is always consistent sleeping 1.5 hr to 1hr 45min. I practiced leaving her in bed when she woke early from a nap yesterday and she talked herself back to sleep in 15 min! So I will continue doing that with her naps. How can I get her to stop crying at bedtime and sleeping until 7am again?

Plowmanators said...

Myrna,

If you suspect low supply, you definitely want to address that.

Other possibilities are allergies or a medical problem like reflux.

If she is fine until you put her down for a nap, see this post to guide you through teaching to self soothe:

CIO Bootcamp: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/cio-bootcamp.html

Plowmanators said...

Jennifer,

The reason it doesn't give specific schedules is because each baby is different.

Since she isn't doing well on the 3.5 hour schedule, I would move her back to the 3 hour schedule. You can also do a combo schedule where some intervals are 3 hours and others are 3.5. You can even range from 2.5 if needed.

Three months is a growth spurt age, so be sure she isn't having a growth spurt, also. If so, feed her more often in the day.

Plowmanators said...

ShepardCrew,

First, I would wake her up when her nap should end. Perhaps give her an extra 30 minutes, but you want to keep her on schedule.

To fix this, work with your waketime length. Usually for that age, if she is playing before a nap it means she needs a longer waketime. I always increased Kaitlyn's by just 5 minutes at a time. But if she used to wake at 7:15 then go down at 9:45, but is now waking at 6:45, she likely has too long of a waketime and is overstimulated by nap. 3 hours is a long first waketime for the average 10 month old.

Mom deciding when the nap ends doesn't mean you can't respond when she cries. I personally would go in when she starts to cry and lay her down and tell her that it is still naptime and she needs to go to sleep. Again, work with waketime length before this nap. The needed length will vary based on what happened with nap one.

The Baby Whisperer says that when babies start to stand, crawl, etc. their joints hurt or feel funny or something like that. If that is true, that can also be a contributor to why she isn't settling down.

Plowmanators said...

Elyssas Mom, three months is a growth spurt, so be sure she isn't experiencing that. With the crying at bed, consider that she might be overstimulated or overtired. Conversly, she might be in need of a longer waketime before bed. See blog labels sleep problems for further ideas.

Elyssa's mom said...

Random question...do you have any tips for gettiing a 5 month old to take "naps" in the stroller while traveling? We will be going to NYC in June and my daughter will have just turned 5 months old. We will probably only be able to make it back to the hotel for one nap during the day so the others will have to be in her carseat/stroller. Just wanted to see if you have any travel tips for these occasions. Thanks.

Mom said...

Hi there - I have my 4th baby and have used BW consistently with all - however my 14 week old WILL NOT STTN... - (all other babies STTN by 9 weeks) He uses a paci and wakes usually twice for 1 minute when I put the paci back in and re-swaddle- do you think that if we let him CIO that should get him over this? - I have tried for several nights - but he is still waking. He is definitly not hungry and will go 10+ hours from last feed to morning feed. (Bottles)...what do you think?

NewMom said...

First of all, cthank you for such a great site. I discovered it about 2wks after my daughter was born and love it (she was born Feb 20th - 5 wks premature. So, she is now almost 11 wks old and I am trying ot get on some type of schedule. She has been doing ok (though getting her down for naps is tough) with the EASY routine but struggling to get her to sleep through the night. Big question...even if she is naturally going 4 hrs between feeds, should I decrease that time if she is not STTN? AS far as timings of her feedings, she has naturally gone 4 hours in between feeds for most of the day for several weeks now. Should I be adding a feeding?? She typically will get 5 hr strecth after I put her to sleep and then wakes twice at night which is about 3-4hrs between feeds. The problem is when I feed her past 6pm, she thinks it's night and ends up sleeping about 5-6 hours from that point. So, long story short...I am trying to decide between 2 schedules and need some help.Will adding a feed during the day help her sleep 7-8 hrs at night? Should I try the extra feed at wake her up at 9pm for it?
Rough estimate on typical day:

8am
12pm
3:30pm
7:00pm
12:00am
4:00am

Will this schedule help her get through the night better? Should I be waking her up
8:00
11:30
2:30
5:30
9:00
2am & 5am? or 3:00am??

Look forward to your response!

NewMom said...

One more question..it's about the naps...if it is taking me a long time to get her to fall sleep (i.e 2 hrs into the cycle), do I let her go past 4 hrs if she is still sleeping?

Elyssa's mom said...

Another questions...how do you keep the baby on a 4 hour feeding schedule if she has a waketime of 1hr and 30 min and only takes a 45 min nap? When my daughter's naps are only 45 and she can't fall back asleep after her transition, I then have to keep her up a full 2 hours to insure that she takes a long enough nap the next time. It's what works for her. So this means she is getting some feedings right before going down for that next nap? Is that ok? Otherwise, we will never get to a 4 hour feeding schedule when i know that's what she really needs. Her 45 in naps are not due to hunger 95% of the time.
Just wanted to know what you did with your babies once they were on a 4 hour schedule but maybe only took a 45 min nap.

Plowmanators said...

Elyssa's mom,

If you have a stroller that will lay down, I would do that. My Graco stroller will lay down. I will swaddle McKenna and put her in there.

If not, it might recline some? I would recline it as much as it can. Then give her whatever she normally sleeps with. A blanket, special stuffed animal, etc.

I guess it depends on what kind of stroller you will be using. I can see you wanting to use an umberella stroller because it would be smaller. But something like a Graco would have a basket to store stuff and be much nicer for baby.

Plowmanators said...

Mom,

This is a common age for babies who use pacifiers to wake multiple times in the night looking for it. I would either take it away or set a rule that you will only reinsert once in the night.

Marie said...

Hello
I did babywise with my first child but did soothing techniques also to help sleep like swaddling and paci and she slept through the night by 8-9 weeks.
Our second baby is now 9 weeks and a 3 hour schedule goes like this:
6am, 9, 12, 3, 6, 10pm and a middle of the night waking between 230-400. We used to feed at 9pm and than midnight(poor feeding) but she would still wake up middle of the night so we eliminated the midnight as this was the longest stretch. I think I saw this advised on another post.
We want to get rid of the middle of the night and go 8 hours but most of the time she feeds well (the prior midnight waking was always a poor feeding). SO, the 6 daytime feeding seem like a no no for the goal of STTN but she would continue and see or do you have a suggestion to tweak this in the right direction? There have been a couple nights where a paci would stretch the 8 hours but most of the time this is not the case.

hopeful said...

please help. my daughter cries before every nap and can cry until the next feeding. she is 5 weeks old and we are on a 3 hour schedule. this is what our day looks like:

7am: i wake her up for her feeding. she takes about 30 minutes to feed and to burp her properly (she spits up easily). she almost always falls asleep when i bf her, but feeds well. i try to get her to wake up, or stay awake, but her eyes are almost always closed.

730amish: wake time. she usually wakes up and is alert. for her wake times, i do a variety of things--such as putting her in a bouncy chair (to keep her upright due to her spitting) and she watches me do my morning tasks. or i give her some 'tummy time', or i sing action songs with her. i watch her carefully for her sleepy cues. i also watch the clock to see how long her wake time is.

8amish: nap time. there are 2 scenarios that happen and this is where i am confused.

1) she will show me what i think are her sleepy cues. i can tell she is getting tired because she will yawn, her eyes will get droopy or she will blink very slowly. or she will get fussy. when i see these sleepy cues, i will start her nap routine and put her down. she sometimes will be quiet for a few minutes, or she will start crying. either way, she cries for almost the whole nap time until her next feeding.

2) she will seem quite alert for over an hour. i put off putting her down for her nap because she seems alert.

anyways, this repeats throughout the day (10am, 1pm, and 4pm). what concerns me is that she cries off and on for sometimes 2 hours.

her bedtime is 7pm and she is usually okay in the evenings. i feed her again at 10pm, 1am, and 4am.

i am totally fine with cio and i have no problems with it. i guess what i'm wondering is if its okay to let her cry for 2 hours until her next feed, and if i'm doing something wrong. or is this just part of the sleep training thing and i just have to wait it out? is it okay to have her cry between feedings?

i'm open to any suggestions.

Elyssa's mom said...

I once read in a post that you successfully got Brayden to sleep in until 7:30am. Would you please share how you did that. My 5 month old used to sleep in until 7:15 but is now consistently waking at 6am no matter what time I put her to bed. Whether it's 6:45pm, 7:30pm, or 8pm, she still wakes at 6. I refuse to go in until 6:30 and sometimes she falls back asleep but only for 15 min. Please help.

Plowmanators said...

NewMom,

Yes, you should decrease her daytime schedule to add a feeding. There are a couple of things you can try. The most important one would be a dreamfeed. This would be around 10-11 PM.

Another thing is cluster feeding, which is feeding something like 6-8 PM and then still doing your dreamfeed.

You don't want to move to a 4 hour day until baby is sleeping through the night. So I would 1-go to 3 hour day and 2-add a dreamfeed and then if possible (not all babies will do it) 3-cluster feed. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Elyssa's Mom,

You don't typically move to 4 hours unless baby will sleep until the four hour mark. You can feed 30 minutes after waking, so you could do it if she can sleep until 3.5 hour mark. But if she will eat sooner than 4 hours, I would do it until she can stay awake longer and/or naps longer.

Marie said...

HI,

Just checking on a response to my post. We are at 11 weeks now and time is still the same so looking for any helpful advice. We do reduce that middle of the night feeding as suggested on another post. Thanks

Jen Q. said...

I love your blog and I love Babywise. I used it with my first son (now 20-months) and it really helped me with the transition into motherhood. I'm doing my best to implement it again with our second son (9 weeks), but it's harder this time. For some reason, I'm having a hard time figuring out the best time to start our day. I'm committed though! Congratulations on your new litte one and please keep up the great work on this blog. It's a wonderful resource!

Plowmanators said...

Marie, first, keep in mind that about 15% of babies don't STTN until 12 weeks. It is possible she just isn't ready yet.

I would add a feeding between your 6 and 10 PM feedings. This is called cluster feeding. So you would do 6-8-10. If you thought 10 was too soon, you could do 6-8-10:30 or even 11. Many moms find this to do the trick.

Plowmanators said...

Hopeful, I am going to answer this on the other post you asked it (Newborn Summary Week 6)

Plowmanators said...

Elyssa's Mom,

That happened last winter. It was when mornings were really dark. He also was taking shorter naps.

There are a couple of factors here: 1--he needs X amount of sleep in a day. If he gets a shorter nap, he sleeps longer in the night. 2--he is a sun riser. He rises with the sun. Right now, he often wakes at 6 AM--though it is usually 6:30. Luckily he is old enough I can have him entertain himself while I sleep :). On rainy days where it is cloudy, I have to wake him up to start our day around 7.

I would bet your daughter is waking because the sun is waking her. It could also be the phase discussed in BW when babies wake around 5:30 and talk to themselves.

Plowmanators said...

Thanks Jen Q! You know, I thought times were harder with Kaitlyn than Brayden, but I kept a journal. When I read my journal, I saw things were much harder with Brayden. Time has a funny way of making things look rosier than they were :)

Pixiepolkadot said...

Hello! I could use some help with my 4 month old. I'm running into a problem that I think others have experienced. This is her current feeding schedule: 7:30am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm, 7:30pm. The last feeding usually lasts around an hour so her actual bedtime is more like 8:30pm. She sleeps all night without waking. Within the last week, I've been having trouble settling her down to eat at her last feeding. I'm concerned that she's sleeping too much now -- I mean she goes down at 6:30pm for a nap and is up again an hour later for her 7:30pm feeding. It seems like she's just not tired enough to go to bed. She also doesn't seem as hungry at her feedings as she used to be. I was thinking of spacing everything out and dropping a feeding, but there's no way she can stay up long enough in between. She only lasts about an hour and a half. Do you think I should drop her down to 4 feedings and try to adjust her nap lengths or eliminate the last nap and keep all 5 feedings? I just can't imagine how she'll be able to stay up from 5pm-7:30 and then another hour to eat. If she goes on a 4 hour routine, I think she'll end up waking up way too early from her naps since she's only awake for an hour and a half. Please help! The books just don't explain this stuff and it's getting so complicated.

Pixiepolkadot said...

I have an addition to my previous question. I was looking at your sample schedules and think my 4 month old daughter is ready for a schedule that is similar to your 6 month and 7 month schedules and I'm trying to decide which to try. What I don't understand is how at 6 months you had your daughter staying awake from 5pm to 7pm with no nap in between those feedings and then you changed it at 7 months so that her third nap lasted right up until her last feeding. Did you ever have trouble putting her to sleep for the night when she woke up from a 2 hour nap right before her last feeding? I guess it's hard to believe that kids will want to sleep for the night when they have naps so late in the day.

daileyrj said...

I have a 14 week old, and he does great during the day, but at night. It is rough. He eats around 8:15 and down right after. He then wakes up at 12, then 3 or 4. He can not seem to sleep more than 3-4 hours at a time. I have tried to let him cry, but he does not give up. I feel like I am doing something wrong. He is a big boy. He is over 18 pounds at 14 weeks and is only breastfeed. I see all of these posts that their 6week old is sleeping through the night and I am so frustrated. Please help!

Julia said...

You are a blessing in my life right now!! I read a ton on your blog yesterday and today. I had been racking my brain for a week trying to figure out why my 3 hour napper is stuck on 45 mins-1.5 hr (at most) naps. He's just not been his usual laid back completely easy self and though he has never slept much past 6:45, his wake-up time has been creeping much earlier and this week was 3:45 one morning (I put him back down and he slept until 7). My daughter has always been a 7 or 8 am waker, so 6 or sooner is really early for me. Anway, I have realized that I'm trying to keep him awake too long between naps. He's an extremely easy baby and needs more naps than I've been giving him so today he's only stayed awake for 1 hr 45 mins tops and is napping great!! My question is this...he's 6 months old, and wakes up, on a good day at 6:00 am. How do I shift everything around to make the schedule work. He currently is exhausted and ready for bed by 6, but we push him to stay up until 7. Do you think he'll start sleeping in later since he's napping better? That would make sense. Or do I just adjust everything up an hour or so? It feels so odd to put him down for a morning nap at 7:30 am! (Oh, his room is pitch black, I've got so many light blocking things on his windows it's a little cave in there, so I really doubt the sun is waking him up.) That was a bunch of stuff in one comment, but any help is greatly appreciated. Congrats on your new little one!

Hannah said...

Thank you so much for your blog, this is a great resource for new moms like myself. I have been searching for an answer to my question but am having a hard time finding one that will fit. I have a 14 weeks old and we are seven days into CIO. She has done pretty well, at night she goes down almost immediately with no fussing and sometimes STTN or will wake at 3-4am will act hungry but then only take 2 ounces of food (I am formula feeding) so I put her back down and she sleeps till 7 or 8am she's not been too consistant. My question though is about the 45 minute intruder. It has come since she was 8 weeks old, we've tried everything it seems like. Feeding her, paci, less waketime, more waketime, darkened her windows, white noise, you name it we have tried. BW says the "intruder" is a feeding problem but I don't believe at all that it is with her. So finally this brought us to CIO because nothing we were doing was helping her. CIO has worked to get her to sleep but when the intruder comes it's all over with. She goes down fine, whines for a minute then falls asleep but habitually EVERY TIME at 45 mins there she is awake. Her morning naps most of the time she fusses for a minute but is able to go back to sleep. Her afternoon nap at the 45 mark she is up and can never get herself back to sleep, in fact the last two days she has cried until her next feeding at 4. She hates her swing, refuses to sit in it so that doesn't work. In fact she sounds alot like Brayden but with reflux. A couple of things about Sheridan is she was three weeks premature and in the NICU for a week then when she got home we had a doctors appointment every other day for two weeks. Then once we got that under control we found out she was allergic to my milk so we spent three weeks finding the right formula for her. In the middle of that we found out she had acid reflux. Her reflux is under control now with a wedge, previcid, and special formula, so that's how I felt comfortable to do CIO. Long story short I never got to start BW like I had intended because it was one thing after another for the last 3 months. Should I let her CIO after the intruder comes? In the morning it works but the afternoon is a disaster, and I know she's not getting enough sleep. She has a third nap between 5-7pm but it's only 45 minutes because I give up. Do you think this is a feeding problem? She eats 4 times a day with 4-5 hours in between, so she gets about 24 oz p/day. Her waketime is 1.5 hr. As I'm sitting here typing this the intruder has come and she is having a difficult time going back to sleep and it's her morning nap... She is not getting the rest she needs and I'm concerned. Any advice you can give is much appreciated.

Elyssa's mom said...

Hi, I am so enjoying the updates on your new baby and cannot wait to have another myself. My 6 month old is now at the stage where she is taking 2 and a half naps a day. For some reason she has not had a morning nap longer than 45 min in 2 weeks and I am doing everything "by the book" when it comes to getting her down at just the right time. However, her middle of the day nap and late afternoon nap are 1hr and 30 min long (sometimes up to 2hrs for one of them). So, is it ok that the half nap is the morning one? I simply don't know what else to do to make it longer and she seems just fine with it only being 45 min and it's not effecting the other two. When she gets to the age where she only takes 2 naps a day will the morning one then become at 1hr and 30 min in length?
Thanks so much for all you do.

Elyssa's mom said...

Well it seems as soon as i post a question her routine changes again. The past 3 days she has taken her full morning nap so i'm not sure what i did differently if anything. Just goes to show that sometimes it's nothing you do but the baby is always changing :)

Plowmanators said...

pixieplkadot, you will want to check out the "four hour schedule" posts to see if your child is ready for it.

When Kaitlyn moved to a 4 hour schedule, she just took longer naps. She slept great at night even with the longer naps right up until bedtime. Some babies won'to take the longer naps, though, so you would have to wait until baby was ready for a longer waketime before extending.

You can also just drop the last nap without tweaking the feeding scehdule if needed. That is what both Brayden and Kaitlyn did, and my hunch is it will be the same with McKenna.

Plowmanators said...

daileyrj,

I would add a feeding that you wake him for around 10:30 or 11 PM. See how that goes. You don't need to wake up up fully--he can basically be asleep and you just feed him. This is called a dreamfeed. See also the blog label "STTN"

Plowmanators said...

DaileyRJ, Do you feed him when he wakes at 12 and 3ish?

I would feed him at 8:15, then again around 10:30. This way he will hopefully be able to go longer into the night hours before waking for food.

Plowmanators said...

Julia,

He should start sleeping better once he naps better. Also, give it a try to put him to bed for the night when he is tired. Overly tired children wake up earlier (every so often they crash, but those days are few). The author of Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child actually says to have bedtime around 6:30 PM. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Hannah,

I would just give her time. I personally don't do CIO in the middle of a nap. Some moms do find success with it, but that seems to mostly just be after age 5-6 months or so.

You can definitely leave her for 5-10 minutes or so and see if she will go back to sleep, but I wouldn't just leave her indefinitely at this age.

It is totally normal for the last nap of the day to be only 30-60 minutes, so don't worry about that in the least.

I would find a way to get her to go back to sleep when she wakes early. With McKenna, I first give her some time. I then will go hold her until she relaxes again, then I put her back in bed.

Some babies might need to be fully asleep before you put them in bed. Some might even need to be held for the remainder of the nap. Remember this is a training period. If you can get her body used to sleeping through the nap period, she will hopefully start to do it on her own as she becomes better at self-soothing.

Plowmanators said...

Elyssa's mom, that is definitely the case with babies! Always changing. :)

adrienne nicole said...

thank you so much for your blog...it's so nice when things seem out of control to see that other people have questions, too, and it doesn't always work just like the book said it would. :)

my question is on STTN. my 13 week old has never done it...we have been on a 3-hour routine since the day he came home...he is nursing, but gets formula for his dream feed (i had hoped it would help him sleep!) he usually takes a bottle around 10:30pm, but is almost always up by 2...screaming. we've been trying CIO for about 6 nights now (checking on him every 20 minutes), but i usually give in around 4am and feed him...sometimes he seems starving and eats ferociously (probably hungry from all the crying), but other times he just eats to sleep. but even if he does eat well, he's usually up again aournd 5/5:30. i'd like to start our day beetween 7/7:30, but sometimes he doesn't seem hungry by then. i'm so lost! i don't know if i should feed or not feed, and with CIO i think this kid could cry all night if i let him!

thank you so much for your help.

Plowmanators said...

Adrienne,

There are a couple of possibilities. One is, have you ever given him formula at a different time of day? If so, did he react okay to it? If not, he might have a bad reaction to the formula.

He also might be in a growth spurt at that age.

Does he get too much sleep in the day? Or too little? Too much or to little would lead to poor sleep in the night.

You are welcome! I know; it does help to see others have trouble too :)

Shelly said...

My son is 4 months old and has had really bad acid reflux since birth. Not sure if that has thrown off our Babywise "plan", but I just can't seem to get him on a feed/wake/sleep schedule. He will only nap once, maybe twice a day for approx 2 hrs each time. At night, he wakes 1-4 times within an 8 hour period. I nurse him and he typically goes right back to sleep. We have tried everything to get him to sleep longer (white noise, swaddle, cluster feeding before bed, bath, etc etc). I even tried letting him cry it out one night and he screamed for 2 hours straight and I gave in and fed him, he went right to sleep after. Not sure what to do at this point. Advice??

Hannah said...

Shelly, I don't want to stick my nose where it doesn't belong but I know when I had problems with our little girl any ideas/help was more than welcomed. My daughter has also had severe acid reflux since birth (well I caught it about 4 weeks old). Does your son sleep on a wedge?

Shelly said...

Yes, he does sleep on a wedge. Plus, the doctor has him on Prevacid for the problem. I should also mention that when we let him CIO, we did go in and check on him every 10-15 min and reassure him we were still there and it was "nite nite time." Didn't work... he continued to scream. I feel like I've used every trick in my bag and nothing will get him to nap better during the day or sleep through the night.

kt said...

Hi I am trying to find out information on how to go from a 3hr to a 3.5 hr schedule with my 13 week old.

Plowmanators said...

Shelly,

You might consider the PU/PD method outlined by the Baby Whisperer in the Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems.

He likely is over tired over all and just can't sleep well. He also likely has "setbacks" due to reflux. See the blog label "reflux" for my ideas on handling that.

Be sure his Prevacid dosage is correct; it is based on weight, so as he gets bigger, he will need a higher dosage unless the reflux is getting better.

Plowmanators said...

kt,

The same rules would apply that apply to a 4 hour schedule, so see the 4 hour schedule blog label. It will give you the info you need. See also the post "combo schedule okay". One rule you won't need to follow is dropping the Dreamfeed first--so long as going to 3.5 hour schedule won't cause you to drop a day feeding.

Cliff and Abby Tippens said...

My 8 week old has been having increasing gas issues at night. He will wake up every 1-2 hours kicking his legs with gas and will cry if he doesn't have his paci in. I can go in and put his paci in and wait and after doing this about 6 times (and 45 minutes later) he might go back to sleep - only to wake in another 30-45 minutes with the same issue. The only thing I have found that will keep him asleep for any long periods of time is putting him in his swing (sometimes I don't cut it on). I know the book talks about not using the swing as a sleep prop, but I don't know what else to do. Should I let him cry it out to get him used to dealing with the gas on his own? Should I worry about the swing sleeping??

Also - he is on formula because I had issues with milk production. Right now he is on half milk, half soy because I didn't want to give up the benefits of the milk based. I might change to straight soy but I just doubt that will solve all problems. I also give him Mylicon at every feeding...can't really tell if it helps much though.

This week was the first week he started getting worse - used to he would sleep 6 hours in his crib before waking for a feed and then would sleep another 1-2 hours before he had the gas problem. Now the gas problem is happening all through the night. I just hate to put him in the swing all night - seems like I shouldn't have to do this.

I have also considered purchasing a breathing monitor and trying tummy sleeping...??

Sara said...

I started BW as soon as my boy was born. I tried to follow BW perfectly but ever since he was a baby I could never get him on a feeding schedule more than 2 hrs. He would wake up at 6, so I nursed got him up and keep him awake for an hr(at most) and then lay him down and then lay him down for a nap. Every time he would only sleep for an hr. Well at night he would go down at 9 and sleep to 4. I would then nurse him and he'd sleep until about 7. Then of course he went through his 3 month growth spurt and started nursing every 2 hrs at night. He's now 4 months old and is still continuing to wake up every 3 hrs. he is also still napping for an hr each time. Sometimes he'd wake up and I wouldn't feed him right away b/c it hadn't been 2 hrs so I would hold him off. Well then it would through off his schedule. Now I think he's trying to extend his feeding time to every 4 hrs but it's hard for me to stay on the feed/wake/nap routine when he's only sleeping an hr at a time. I don't want to keep him up for 2 hrs b/c I think it's too long for him.
Any advice on what should I do? Am I doing something wrong? I should mention that I have let him CIO during nap times but he doesn't seem to fall back asleep. And at night, I don't let him cio b/c he sleeps in our room but I do give him his pacifier and try rocking him back to sleep. Is that wrong or does he need to CIO?
My question is why wasn't I able to get him on a 3 hr routine from the beginning? I'm also confused on how ppl say they wake up their kids in the morning. Why not let them sleep and wake up on their own? I had a hard time understanding when to wake them up and when to let them sleep. Please help me understand what I'm misunderstand.
Thanks,
Sara

Stephanie Anderson said...

My son is 14 weeks old and was sleeping through the night (8 hours) from 6-12 weeks. He is currently on a 3 hour schedule with 6-7 feedings a day (breastmilk in bottles). His last feeding is at 9pm and he is now starting to wake anytime between 1-3 am and takes a full feeding (4-5 ounces). However, when I wake him at 7 am he has no interest in eating, sometimes this is 5 hours after his last feed. I attended to the growth spurt at three months and was adding extra feeding and ounces to his bottles during the day. I wouldn't be so concerned if he ate well for me in the morning after taking a night feeding, but he is not doing that. I have also done the cluster feeding in the evenings to make sure he is taking enough. Please help me understand what is going on with him. Thanks so much!

Elyssa's mom said...

My 8 month old began waking at 6am like most babies at that age and happily waited for me to come get her. So, i used your tips and tricks that one would use for the time change strategies to get her sleeping later in the morning again. It worked! She began sleeping to 7-7:30am and going to bed at 8-8:15pm. I also reevaluated her naps and got those accurate. Lately though for the past 3 days she has begun waking again at 6am and not even getting 10.5 hours anymore at night. She just lays there until I come get her and sometimes she will go back to sleep. Is this just a phase due to all her developments this week (teething, crawling, etc). I feel like all the efforts i put into shifting her hours are wasted. Should I just stay consistent with the time I'm getting her up and putting her to bed regardless and hope she'll get back to those hours? Or is it possible she now only needs 10 hours of sleep a night?
Here was our schedule until 3 nights ago:
7-wake
9:30-10:30
2:00-4 Nap
8pm-bed
Sometimes she would wake at 7:30 and so her afternoon nap would only be 1.5 hours to keep bedtime at 8.
This schedule has been perfect until 3 days ago.
So I was just wondering if you could make sense of the early waking again. I'm nervous of the time change this fall even though it's 3 months away.
Thanks.

RK&RJ said...

Ok, I searched the blog and have tried to see if the problems listed are the problems I am having and I simply can't tell, so I am going to post our issue and go from there. If this has been answered in a place on your blog, feel free to just direct me. My first son fell into babywise like clockwork. By 4 months I was having to wean him to formula for health reasons but was already sleeping 5-6 hours at night and during this 4th month I started only giving him one side at night to wean him to longer sleep. Needless to say, he was easy and still sleeps good to this day. My new little one is perplexing. He jumps around ALOT! I have had 5-6 hour nights and even some 7 hour nights so i know he can do it. I thought we were hitting the 3 month growth spurt which is why we were back to 3-4 hour nights, but this has continued for over two weeks now with no improvement. He is eating every 3-4 hours during the day and taking naps about 1.5 hours after ever meal until the next feeding. I don't know what else to do to encourage the night time longer sleep. He will do his first 4-5 hour sleep in the early evening from about 7pm-11pm. I have gone back and forth waking him to eat so that this doesn't become his long sleep, but that doesn't seem to make a difference for the rest of the night. Then we are looking at 3-4 hour sleeping the rest of the night. I am exhausted and have tried to just tell myself he is having growth spurts. But honestly I feel like i am doing something very wrong. HELP! I need more SLEEP!

Plowmanators said...

Abby, I would try different formula to see if the formula is upsetting him. Milk allergies can develop later in life. I seem to remember that soy based isn't always good either? I am not sure about it but I have some vauge thought about it.

I would wonder if it is really a gas issue, though. Sleeping well in a swing is not a sign of gas. Gas pain would still be there. That is a sign of reflux.

Plowmanators said...

Sara, BW says that the most important thing to establish STTN is starting the day at the same time each day. That is why you wake them.

As for the short naps, see the blog label "45 minute intruder"

Plowmanators said...

Stephanie,

He might be waking in the night due to some other disruption. See the blog label "nighttime" for ideas on what disrupts nighttime sleep. See also the post "early morning feedings before waketime" for help on that specific situation. It will apply to your situation.

Plowmanators said...

Elyssa's Mom, There is a post 5-8 month sleep disruptions. Teething and milestones are definite disruptors to sleep.

If nothing else changed and she just started waking early, I would just wait for her to adjust back to sleeping later and leave her there unless she is really screaming. If she is sleeping less during the day, she might be overly tired and need a new bedtime.

To be up for four hours at the end of the day is really long for a child that age. If she did that fine for a long period of time, don't worry about it. But if she did that fine for less than a month, I would consider moving bedtime up to 7 or 7:30. Good luck!

Bo and Arlies Mom said...

Hi...just came across your blog today, and have been reading it ever since (in between feedings, and "attempted" waketimes and naptimes, of course). Boy, what a plethora of information! How wonderful of you to take this on! I posted a question to you earlier today on the "Newborn Summary: Week Six" post with my foremost concerns. So I am anxious to get your response to my questions there. But after reading many of your blogs for most of the day, and jumping head first into CIO for the first time today (oh my goodness!), I continue to have questions, and am trying to see my computer screen through the tears. My 6 1/2 week old fed, had waketime (this early/mid evening time is about the only time he does waketime on his own w/o a fight from me), and I put him down in his bed as soon as he started to show signs of sleepiness (slow blinking, staring/glazed over, yawning). He started to cry w/i just a couple of minutes (his usual) and I let him cry for a solid hour, going in to "reassure" him every 20 minutes. After an hour I brought him out into our living room to his swing, where he is now...he cried his little guts out there too, until I finally broke down and held him for five minutes and put him back in the swing asleep. But why do I feel guilty, like I just shot myself in the foot, and defeated my own purpose?!? I feel like it is constantly one step forward and two steps back. I always have questions...always wondering what I should do, and second-guessing myself at every turn. BW talks about PDF instilling confidence in mothers, but I am certainly not there yet! I'm sure I'll have more questions through these imminent difficult days, maybe weeks to come. But for starters, please help me with the 4 listed below. Thank you again so much...just reading that other people have gone through very similar things gives me a glimmer of hope. I continue to pray, and quote Phil. 4:13...I CAN do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me.

1. When "giving up" on napping in the bed and moving them to the swing, does it matter where the swing is? Does it need to stay in his bedroom, or another quiet room, or is it ok to bring him where the rest of the family is gathered (like the living room...with TV, telephone, and my 2 yr. old daughter - not quiet!)?

2. And just how do you handle siblings anyway! I thinks that's what is so much harder this time around (because I did BW with my 2 yr. old daughter). It was easier when it was just her, and her crying only affected her Daddy and I. But with my new baby boy, his crying interferes with her naptime and bedtime, and her loud playing during the day interferes with his naptime! I can't win!

3. I keep hearing and
reading "don't let them get overtired"...but letting him cry through and entire naptime certainly gets him overtired! This is all so counterintuitive to me! How do you incorporate CIO without them getting overtired, and therefore repeating the same thing all over again during the next cycle?

4. When feeding after a failed attempt at naptime, he is inevitably so sleepy...hard to get a good feeding out of him, much less keep him awake for any waketime. Should I, in this case, just put him straight down and hope he sleeps some? I have tried this, but he usually still wakes up before time to eat and just cries more.

Ultimately, is my goal to just let him cry until he eventually falls asleep on his own? Is that what I'm shooting for here? If it is that cut and dried, I think I can endure it. I am just so overtired myself, wondering how much more of this I can take.

Thank you again. You truly are a God-send, and I mean that literally. I have been praying all of my concerns and questions, and God hears and answers my prayers in various ways, but I truly believe He is using you as His vessel to minister to so many people. Bless you.

jodi said...

Hello, I am one of the many who are not sure if I am posting correctly, I don't blog often but need some help. If you have already answered this, please just post a reply with a link to the proper place. Real quick since you are busy, 15 week old (probably 16 by the time you get this). Doing Babywise, has acid reflux. Usually takes 6 feedings a day (about 32 oz total). Usually last feeding is around 9:15. Feeds every 3 hours during the day, followed by waketime of about 1-1.5 hours and then a nap (usually wakes within an hour from nap). Feeds around 8:30,11:30,2:30, 5:30 and then usually last feeding is between 8:30-9:15. Problem is he is up between 2-3am for a feeding. I have tried getting him to go back to sleep with pacifier and even tried time shifting his acid reflux medicine so he gets a little something and no luck, Still starving. He easily polishes off 5-6 oz and goes right back to sleep. I tried one night giving him a "dream feed at 11p" but no luck still up at 2. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated as I feel like I have tried a lot of approaches. My daughter was a Babywise baby and slept through 12 hours by 9 weeks so this is frustrating.

Plowmanators said...

Bo and Arlies Mom,

Be sure to read through the waketime length posts. For many babies, yawning and glazing over is "too late" rather than nap time. An overtired baby will not sleep well. Also, check out the 4 S's post. Your baby might really benefit from that since he is used to being held to sleep.

1. I would put the swing somewhere quiet. We have always put it in a bedroom.

2. This is time to get white noise. Get something for her room and something for his. This will help drown each other out. Also, they do get used to each other, but it takes time (she should adapt faster than he does). Also, you can teach her how to play quietly and use appropriate inside vs. outside voices. I like my kids to be able to be normal in the house, but I don't allow them to scream and yell while the baby is asleep--I want them to respect others when they are sleeping.

You can also get creative about sleeping locations. I had Kaitlyn sleep in my room when she was a baby during the afternoon nap session so Brayden and Kaitlyn wouldn't disrupt each other.

3. If he goes down at the right time, crying really shouldn't last that long. You might have some sessions where it lasts a long time, but it shouldn't be consistently long. Also, I wouldn't let him cry through an entire nap session for that reason.

4. I would probably feed him then put him in the swing.

You don't really want him to just cry until he falls asleep. Unfortunately, it isn't that "easy." I recommended this (I think?) in my other answer, but I would get Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. It will help you a lot through the process.

You are welcome. I am glad I can help out :)

Plowmanators said...

Jodi, reflux babies take longer to STTN. If he is hungry, the only thing you can try to do is get more food in him during the day. You can feed more often (2.5 hours), cluster feed in the evening, keep trying at a dreamfeed...but since he is hungry, he is hungry :) Hang in there! You have to have extra patience with the reflux baby.

Bo and Arlies Mom said...

Thanks Valerie...very helpful. I'm not quite as tearful these days. :) A couple more questions though since some time has passed...

Since my first post/questions, we have made a bit of progress I think. Bo is sleeping fairly well during morning and early afternoon naps, and sleeping well at night w/ the exception of one nighttime feeding (although we are definitely experiencing the witching hour in the evening time.) He has inevitably cried a big portion of his nap after his 5pm feeding, then usually cries again after the 8pm feeding. We did have some setbacks due to him being hospitalized last week with croup. (I knew any progress would be out the window during and after our hospital stay.) I have started at square one again this week, but doing okay.

1. Sleepy feeding and waketime: For the morning and early afternoon feedings, he is still the sleepiest eater! I struggle endlessly to get him to stay awake, and can never tell if he's had enough to eat, and am constantly questioning my milk supply (pumping often, and adding supplements at bedtime AND dreamfeed). I did the BW suggestion of going five days with 2.5 hr. feeds to increase my supply...just found that he was even sleepier during feeds since I was waking him sooner to eat. This "waketime" thing has always had me puzzled. I read that waketime includes feeding time...but does there HAVE TO be waketime AFTER a feeding? If he's such a sleepyhead DURING the feeding - and eventually just goes completely to sleep, do I battle to wake him up AFTER the feeding for more waketime? BW stresses the utter importance of the order/sequence of feeding/waktime/napping... I've always felt like putting him down when he's so sleepy after feeding is the wrong thing to do...like I'm out of "sequence." And does waketime BEFORE feeding count...or is this again out of "sequence?" Sometimes when I get him up for a nap I really work to get him awake for a while so he'll take a full feeding, but he's still falling asleep, at least on the second breast.

2. Nighttime feeding/Morning Waketime: I have tried to make "bedtime" 8pm...feed him and put him straight down (although he cries at this time), then a dreamfeed at 11pm (after this one he goes right to sleep consistently). After that I just let him go, and he still wakes at least once during the night to eat again (not at a consistent time though...anywhere between 3am and 6am).

My goal has been for 8am to be his "wake up/start the day" time but not always possible based on what time he eats during the night/early morning. Should I set an alarm for myself to feed him at a specific time during the night?...(I hesitate b'cause I know this can start a new habit w/ him). Or is it more important to just let him eat "whenever," and get him up at the same time every morning regardless of when he ate last? i.e., Do I feed him again at 8am if he's eaten at 6 or 6:30? And do I continue to feed him when he has this nighttime crying spell? He is nine weeks old today, but I don't think he's ready to STTN yet because 1)We started BW and CIO late with him, and 2)We've had illness setbacks.

Thanks again...Although I'm still struggling at times, I CAN say with surety that "it does get better." I know in the moment it feels like it will never...but it does...God is good. :)

Caroline said...

Hello!

I needed some help and didn't know where to look and I found you... I hope I am writting at the right spot...

i am a big fan of the baby whisperer and I also liked the happiest baby on the block so I am "trying" to apply those techinique as a first time mother of a 5 weeks old little girl... So here is my issue...

I usually feed Chloe around 5 am when she wakes up in the mornig, I change her diapper and she goes right back to sleep. She wakes up again usually around 8-9h, I feed her again, cahnge her diappers and she sleeps for about 15 minutes (waking up because of a hiccup or spit up... she has reflux...) She is usually happy then so I play with her untill she start yawning and I then try to put her back to sleep... then it starts! She cries and cries and cries... There is no calming her or putting her down... This last usually for 2h, untill her crying changes to the "I am hungry" one... so I feed her and she falls asleep at my breast... sleeps for 10-15 minutes, and the crying start again... This goes on until 8h, when I feed her, we give her a bath, she then sleeps untill around 11-12h, my husband gives her formula (so I can rest a little...) and then she sleeps, and the next day start all over again...

So how, in this circumstance, NOT feeding my little girl to sleep?

I found this whole thing a little overwhelming... I really love my little girl, and I know all this will get better but I need some reassurance that I am not giving her bad sleeping habbits...
Thanks
Caroline

Stephanie Anderson said...

Hi-
My son is almost 4 1/2 months old and I have a question about his current schedule: He is on a combo 3 to 3.5 hour schedule:
7:30 wake/eat
8:45 nap
10:30 wake/eat
12:30 nap
2:00 wake/eat
4:00 nap
5:30 wake/eat (sometimes he wakes 15-30 min.early)
8:30 bath/eat
9:00 bed

Sometimes I add a 7pm cluster feed to help with extra feedings and also to keep him happier since he is up for about 3 hours. Is this a good consistent schedule for him? I had to cut the fourth nap because all he did was scream. Sometimes he wakes early on his 3rd nap and then I definitely have to put him down for a short 4th nap so he can make it till 8:30. Also, the last week or so he has been waking anywhere from 5:30 - 6:30 and wants to eat (wake time at 7:30). I try to settle him but it won't work. He is also wide awake so I can never just put him right back down after he eats, so then he is up for an hour and then goes down for his 1st nap and that screws up my whole day. Am I creating a bad habit of his morning wake time? Should I let him CIO if he gets up early? He used to get 10-10.5 hours of sleep and is now only getting 9-9.5 hours and is definitely cranky in the morning. Sorry for all the info and questions. Your help is always so much appreciated! Thanks!

Caroline said...

So, to complete my previous post... I have notice that my baby is very sleepy in th emorning and very active at night... Never really notice before since yesterday was the first night she was happy at night... she usually just cry...but there is definitely a patern of activity between 9pm-2am... and big bouts of sleep between 7 am-12... any idea on how to change that the other way around?

btw... Her bath time is a nightmare... the bath goes fine until we dress her up again... that "in between" always generates a HUGE crisis, any suggestion?
Thanks again for the help!!!!
C.

Plowmanators said...

Bo and Arlies Mom,

1-There doesn't have to be waketime after a feeding if he just won't stay awake. As a newborn, feeding is waketime, too, so if he needs to sleep , let him sleep.

Waketime before a feeding counts in that you count it toward his waketime in calculating when the next nap should happen, but it doesn't count in having an eat/play/sleep pattern.

2-He might need some waketim after the bedtime feeding.

I would get him up at 8 even if he just ate at 6. If 6:30, I would wait until 6:30. See the post "early morning feedings before waketime" for more on this idea.

I am glad things are getting better :)

Plowmanators said...

Caroline,

There are a few principles for you to nail down:

1-You want to wake her up at the same time each morning. Don't wait for her to wake up on her own. Pick a reasonable time. 9 is too late to reasonably expect her to wake up once she starts sleeping through the night (someday). Most do it in the 7 AM hour. With my third, we are at 8 AM.

2-Remember to feed her, have some playtime, then put her down for a nap. This helps establish daytime vs. nighttime. Don't let her fall asleep after eating...it sounds like she is not getting a full feeding in.

3-Focus on that first nap first. When she wakes up after 15 minutes, try to get her back to sleep right away. Try to get her to sleep for 1.5-2 hours.

4- Don't keep her up longer than is optimal for her age. See the blog label "optimal waketime."

5-Reflux babies need extra patience. If she needs to sleep in a swing or something, let her. See the blog label "reflux" for more on that.

Plowmanators said...

Stephanie,

See the post "early morning feedings before waketime" to figure out what to do about that.

He might be waking early because he is overly tired. I would put him to bed between 7:30-8:30. That would be my first fix.

Peggy said...

We are having nighttime sleep issues with our 12-month old son. He falls asleep in his crib easily but wakes up SCREAMING after 30-45 minutes. I understand he may be having sleep cycle transition issues but he will be inconsolable for approximately 1-2 hours at this time. Once he does fall back asleep, he sleeps 8-10 hours and has no trouble re-settling himself if he wakes up through the rest of the night. Help! Any suggestions? We've tried to let him CIO but he will vomit in short order when left in his crib screaming. He also naps 2 hours once a day.

Plowmanators said...

Peggy, if it is just at night, then I would guess it is a nightmare or night terror. See the post on fears from yesterday for some ideas in dealing with this.

Betsy said...

Hi,
I am a big fan of your blog and have been reading since before my baby was born! We have a 10 month precious baby girl. :)

--We are on a 4 hour schedule.

wake at 7
nurse 7
solids 8
nap 9-11
nurse 11
solids 12
nap 1-3
nurse 4
solids 5
bath
nurse 6:30
bedtime 7

From the start, I stuck to babywise techniques and my baby was sleeping through the night at 11 weeks old. It was wonderful.
Somehow, over the course of time, I started nursing her to sleep. This messed everything up!! Now, I am reaping the consequences. SO, my husband and I have started CIO (again). We are having trouble though. I have read all of your posts about CIO and have ready everyone elses posts...I'm desperate!! We are on day 4 and have seen a FEW improvements. CIO is working for nap 2 and bedtime and the night. (It's not perfect...but the hours of crying are turning into 45 mins of crying,etc.) However, we are having major trouble with the morning nap. Our daughter fights it with all she has. Everyday she has cried for 2 hours during her entire morning nap. I go in there after 20 mins, etc and it hasn't helped. (This helps at the other naps and night b/c it helps her know we are alive) She seems so tired and is just now making up for this lost nap time! For the last 4 days she is crying through the morning nap which means she falls asleep at 12 pm (way before time for her afternoon nap) and only gets one nap a day. This is completely getting her off schedule. Basically, we don't know what else to do. This is making us double CIO all together. We want it to work so badly but maybe this just isn't going to work for our stubborn 10 month old? Maybe we should take out the first nap all together? Maybe I could nurse her to sleep just for her morning nap everyday? Maybe she is ready to drop the morning nap?! AHH. PLEASE HELP. I really respect your opinion. Thank you so so much.

-Elizabeth

*I don't know if this effects any of the sleep...but my daughter does not eat a lot of solids. (Just won't)

alexandoliviasmom said...

Love your blog- been looking at the site for 3 hours hoping to find an answer. Did find many helpful things. My daughter is almost 8 weeks old and last week slept from 2330 to 6am 3 nights in a row. This week she has been waking at 430 am . She is typically on a 3 hour daytime schedule and I consistently have to wake her to nurse after a 1.5 hour nap ( she usually has an hour waketime prior to naps. I have started to cluster her daytime feeds and end with a dreamfeed at 2315. Getting in 7-8 nursings a day. She eats a full feeding at 430 and then again at 730. Is there anything else I can do to encourage her to sleep 7 hours at night again. My goal is to get her to sttn by the time I go back to work at 13 weeks. I work 12 hour noghtshift as a nurse and want her to getajority of her feedings by breast not bottle with bm. I overproduce so I pump almost 14-17 ounces in a day in addition to nursing. Thanks for your time and help.

Plowmanators said...

Elizabeth,

This is tricky because a lot of babies have issues with the morning nap at 10 months anyway, so to be working on CIO during that time is tricky.

I would continue working at it, though. Try various waketime lengths before the morning nap. She isn't old enough to go to one nap--hang in there and she will be ready for two again soon.

Let me know if you still have issues and I will post this as a "help a reader out" post since I don't have experience with older babies and CIO. I have ideas on what would and wouldn't be a good idea, but no experience. I am sure there are readers out there who do. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

alexandoliviasmom,

That is a normal part of learning to STTN for many babies. It might be a growth spurt or just part of her learning. Since she is taking full feedings at both of those times, she needs them.

You can try cluster feeding and dreamfeeding if you aren't. See also the post from 1/6/10 about nightttime sleep issues. Good luck!

Tracy said...

Hi Val, thanks so much for your wonderful blogging. I've been following your blog for over a year and am always reading and learning from your posts and others' comments. I am usually encouraged and rejuvenated by reading your thoughts and ideas. However, sometimes I get discouraged, thinking that you and others have it all figured out as most of your commentary makes it sound so easy. So, I had two thoughts. The first is to do a series of polls asking what percentage of time baby (age ranges) actually followed mom's ideal schedule (i.e. sleeping times, lengths, and eating). The second is if you did a series of posts talking about this subject and related some thoughts and experiences you have have from when your kids have not followed the schedule. I know it happens and I have read some of your comments here and there, but if it were all in one place, it might be helpful for us to see what you did or didn't do at these times. I would love to hear about times when you had to be away from home during naps and feedings, times when your babies decided not to nap or took short naps, times when you or the kids were sick, etc.

Plowmanators said...

Will do Tracy. Good ideas. I suggest in the meantime you look at the "in action" blog label. I write posts about us putting things in action, and that is where you can find info like you are looking for.

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