Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Sample Schedules

I often get requests for sample schedules for certain ages. In this post, I list different schedules from different ages. I might not remember it exactly, but this is what I remember to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, I didn't follow my own advice and write things down :) Added 4/2009: I will be adding McKenna's schedule as she grows. See the blog label "newborn summary " for week by week schedules. Added 9/2009: You can also see the blog label baby summary for a week by week schedule from age 3 months and up.

Birth:
Kaitlyn was a born sleeper and I had to wake her for every feeding at first. Also, we gradually included waketimes. She was so sleepy I could only force one waketime out of her at first (beyond feeding). We added one waketime per week. So some naps started immediately following a feeding, so I will just list feeding on this list:

7:30--nurse
10:30--nurse
1:00--nurse
4:00--nurse
6:30--nurse
9:00--nurse

I went to bed after the 9:00 nursing. She then woke twice in the night to nurse.

McKenna also seems to be a born sleeper. She does have a short waketime after feedings, but not long. Her total waketime (including feeding) varies from 30-45 minutes. She then sleeps until her next feeding. Here is her actual schedule as a newborn:

7:45--nurse. My goal is for a 7:30 waketime, but 7:45 works quite well for us. At some point in the future I will shoot for 7:30, but for now we are typically at 7:45-8:00.
10:30--nurse
1:00--nurse
4:00--nurse
7:00--nurse
9:30--nurse. This actually can vary from 9:30-10:00 PM.

I then go to bed. She typically wakes on her own somewhere around 2 AM. I then wake her around 5:30 AM so she will be hungry enough to eat at our first feeding in the morning. Once she is old enough to go to 7 feedings a day, I will let her drop one of these night feedings.

4 Weeks:
Around four weeks, the schedule I had created for Kaitlyn started to change. She had different plans :). At four weeks, we were still working on waketimes, but had all but one or two down.

7:30--nurse
8:30--nap
10:00--nurse
11:00--nap
1:00--nurse
2:00--nap
4:00--nurse
5:00--nap
6:30--nurse
7:30--nap
8:30--nurse then bed

She continued with the two night nursings. This schedule continued for a while. Some days, the 10 AM nursing would be 10:30. Also, some days the 4 PM nursing would be 3:30. Around 8 weeks, she dropped one night nursing. Around 9 weeks, I tried to force a dreamfeed at 10:30, but she would not wake up.

For McKenna, her schedule stayed pretty much the same. I had noticed by then that McKenna didn't eat well if it was sooner than 3 hours:

7:45--nurse
10:30--nurse
1:30--nurse
4:30--nurse
7:00--nurse
10:00--nurse

I still woke her twice in the night.

6 Weeks
Kaitlyn's schedule stayed pretty much the same. Here is McKenna's six week schedule:

7:15-7:45--nurse. I changed our 30 minute window to this.
10:30--nurse
1:30--nurse
4:30--nurse
7:00--nurse
10:00--nurse

She woke twice in the night for the first half of 6 weeks old, then went down to once a night.

3 Months:
At this age, the schedule for Kaitlyn moved more toward my original plan.

7:30--nurse
8:30--nap
10:30--nurse
11:30--nap
1:00--nurse
2:00--nap
4:00--nurse
5:00--nap
6:30--nurse
7:30--bed
10:00--nurse then bed (dreamfeed)

At this age, her night feeding was in those early morning hours, usually around 6 AM. I believe she dropped that feeding around 4 months.

FOR MCKENNA
Things did vary week to week, but here is a typical day:

8:00--nurse
8:50--nap
11:00--nurse
12:00--nap
2:00--nurse
3:00--nap
4:30--nurse
5:40--nap
7:00--nurse then straight to bed
10:00--dreamfeed

There would then be a feeding on one side around 5:30 AM. During this month, she extended her night feedings so that she started to make it to 7-7:15 in the morning. On those days, we started the day then and then she had a long nap in the morning. Those days looked like:

7:00--nurse
7:50--nap
10:30--nurse
11:30--nap
2:00--nurse
3:00--nap
4:30--nurse
5:40--nap
7:00--nurse then straight to bed
10:00--dreamfeed


4 Months:
Kaitlyn's schedule didn't change much, but she did drop a nap. We also started solids at 4 months, so solid feeding times are listed as they were once we had all three.

7:30--nurse + solids
8:30--nap
10:30--nurse
11:30--nap
1:30--nurse + solids
2:30--nap
4:30--nurse
6:30--nurse + solids then bed
9:45--nurse the bed (dreamfeed). I was starting to move it back in preparation for dropping it.

FOR MCKENNAThe first couple of week of 4 months old were a bit unpredictable due to early morning feeds. Once she hit 19 weeks, though, things smoothed out.

7:00--nurse
7:50--nap
10:30--nurse and cereal
11:30--nap
1:30--nurse
3:00--nap
4:30--nurse and sweet potatoes toward the end of the month
6:00--nap
6:30--she would wake, or I would wake her. Some days, she didn't take this nap
7:00--nurse then straight to bed
10:30ish--dreamfeed

6 Months:
I finally relinquished the dreamfeed. Kaitlyn basically started to refuse to wake up and eat, so I consented and dropped it. Her waketime had also started to extend a bit, and she started to need to go longer in the morning between feedings.

7:30--nurse + solids
8:45--nap
11:00--nurse
12:15--nap
2:00--nurse + solids
3:15--nap
5:00--nurse
7:00--nurse + solids then bed

FOR MCKENNA
McKenna started 6 months with a dreamfeed, but quickly dropped it.

8:00--nurse + solids
9:10--nap
12:00--nurse+ solids
1:15--nap
4:15--nurse + solids
6:00--nap
8:00--nurse then bed
10:00--dreamfeed

7 Months:
About a week before Kaitlyn turned 7 months, I finally moved her to the 4 hour schedule.

7:30--nurse + solids
8:50--nap
11:30--nurse + solids
1:00--nap
3:30--nurse
5:00--nap
7:00--nurse + solids then bed (I woke her up earlier than 4 hours because I wanted her in bed for the night to get 12 hours of sleep)

FOR MCKENNA
8:00--nurse + solids
9:30--nap
12:00--nurse + solids
1:30--nap
4:15--nurse + solids
6:00--nap
7:45--nurse + solids then bed

9 Months:
At 9 months, I started trying to drop the third nap. It was a weaning process. We started by shortening it over time. It got down to the point of being only 1 hour long, then 45 minutes. Then she would have some days she wouldn't need the nap. Those days, I would feed her at 6:30 if needed so we could get her in bed earlier.

11 Months:
Here is Kaitlyn's schedule at 11 months.

7:30--nurse + solids
9:15--nap
11:30--nurse + solids
1:15--nap
3:45--nurse
7:00--nurse + solids then bed

Brayden's Differences
Kaitlyn is a sleeper. Don't be discouraged by the amount she sleeps. Also, she has been slow in extending waketime. Brayden's differences were:




  • He had 2 hour waketime and 2 hour naptime.
  • He dropped that 4th nap around the same age. He dropped his third nap around the same age also, but for him it was a drop rather than a wean.
  • Brayden started his day at 7:00 AM rather than 7:30.
  • Brayden slept fewer hours at night. While he had the third nap, he slept about 10 hours at night. Once he dropped it, he slept 10.5 hours at night (8:30 bedtime).
Other Items
These sample schedules only include eating and sleeping, not other activities (like independent play).
Reader Questions:
  • LEM said...
    I'm having trouble understanding some of the BW scheduling. I have a 3-week old who is eating ever 3 hours starting at 6am. (so, 6,9,12,3,6pm, 9pm, 12am.) and then I let him wake up when he wants to, which tends to be between 4 and 5 am. Ideally, that would be 6am of course so that I could start my day. I wake him to feed during the day, sometimes he wakes on his own. But my question is, do I have to wake him for the 12am feeding or can I just see how long he can sleep? I'm thinking if I let him sleep he may wake up around 1 or 2am and then maybe he will sleep after that till 6am (our normal wake up time).
    June 10, 2008 7:33 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    I would not wake him at 12 AM, but until three weeks you shouldn't let him go more than 5 hours. So I would feed at 9, then wake him at 2 if he doesn't on his own, then hopefully he will make it to 6. It sounds like he is doing great!
    June 11, 2008 10:59 AM
    LEM said...
    Thank you so much for the quick response. I am so glad I found this site since I was having a difficult time feeling like I was doing this right.As a follow-up question to that, Would I keep him on this schedule until he drops this 1 or 2 am feeding and then move him to 3.5 hours during the day? Or can/should I move him sooner?(Oh, and by the way he is being formula fed)
    June 11, 2008 1:01 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Since he is formula fed, you could let him go longer in the night, but I would just get up up early enough that he will be hungry for your start time of the day. Yes, I would stick with the same schedule until he drops that middle of the night feeding. I would also keep him on the same day schedule until he drops that 9 PM feeding. You could moveo waketime back (if you want to), but still keep the same number of feedings per day. See this post:When to Move to a 4 hour Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/when-to-move-to-4-hour-schedule.html this post will also be helpful for you: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/babywise-milestones.html
    June 11, 2008 1:46 PM
  • Kim said...
    I have a six week old and I have been trying to use the feed/wake/sleep program since he was born. I have just started CIO this week for his day naps. He has a problem sleeping in the crib and staying awake at the bottle. We are doing a combo 2.5-3 hour schedule. For his first two weeks he was consistently on a 3 hour schedule. How do I get him back on the 3 hour schedule? In his first two weeks he didn't fall asleep at the bottle, this has been a new habit. He also can't seem to stay up for more than 1 hour at times. Our schedule is 6,830,1100,130,400,700,1000. I would like to shoot for a three hour schedule starting at 700. I'll be going back to work within a week and my husband will be dropping him off at my parents at 700. He will be leaving our house at 615 to 630. Should I wake our LO and immediately change his diaper and put him in the car seat and have my parents feed him at 700to start his day? Should I wake earlier and feed him before he leaves? I think this would be difficult because he will probably fall immediately asleep in the car seat and have no wake time. Should I feed him a partial bottle and then let my parents feed him again when he gets there (I don't think this will work b/c he has quite an appetite and screams if you take the bottle away before he's done)? Any suggestions? Or does anyone else have to take their children to daycare?
    June 27, 2008 6:26 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Kim,1 hour wake time is normal for a 6 month old. 6 weeks is also a growth spurt time, so watch for that. I would recommend a 2.5-3 hour schedule. See this post:Getting a Consistent Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/getting-consistent-schedule.html When it comes to your new schedule, I think I would either:1-get him up and put him in his carseat to go. If he really will fall asleep in the carseat, then he could just fall asleep and wake up officially once he gets to your parents house.2-get him up and feed him and start his day. He will then need to go to bed soon after getting to your mom's. It will likely be a little tricky for a while, but he will eventually be able to stay up longer. Good luck!
    June 27, 2008 11:12 PM
  • jsb said...
    Hi, I have been trying to do BW since I brought my 10 week-old home from the hospital. He was doing great on a consistent 3 hour schedule, but we are having some trouble now. At six weeks, he wanted to eat every two hours (growth spurt, I assume) and now he is at around 2.5 sometimes 3 hours. The problem is that we do feeding, about 75 minutes of playtime (this is when he begins showing signs of tiredness) and then I put him down for a nap. He will only nap anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. This means that he wakes way too soon for his next feeding so by the time he eats again, and has some waketime, he has been up for way too long and the cycle continues. I have tried shortening his waketime but it didn't seem to help. Oh, and he has been consistently sleeping through the night for two weeks now (sometimes he sleeps 10 and 11 hours), it's just the naps that I am having so much trouble with. Any advice you may have would be greatly appreciated. Your blog is great!
    August 24, 2008 7:45 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    See these posts for my recommendations: 45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.html
    Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
    Waking After Only 20 Minutes : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/06/waking-after-only-20-minutes.html
  • The Sullivan's said...
    I was recently introduced to BW by my sister. She had great success with her 3 children using it. This is my first baby and she is much more difficult than my sister's children. She is 4 1/2 weeks old. Let me start by saying that I took her to the pediatrician today and she thinks my baby has a mild case of colic (due to the fact that she's fussy on/off from 5 till 9 almost every night and her naps diminish to 30 mins each...if she takes one at all between feedings).So, I have a few questions not only about CIO but BW in general.#1 - I have her on a 3-hr "routine" (times aren't the same every day). Should I be striving to create a "schedule" so that our day is more stuctured and predictable?#2 - She sleeps good during the night, only waking once. She sleeps in her bassinet at bedtime. Basically all of her naps take place in her swing because that's the only place she will soothe herself to sleep (I guess its not self soothing though because the swing is an aide). Her morning and early afternoon naps are great. However, once early evening hits...naps are terrible. She wakes after 30 mins. Both of my sisters suggested that I start putting her in her crib for naps and bedtime so that she gets used to it. I tried putting her in there a couple of times but it didn't work because I was inconsistant with what I was doing. After reading your blog I'm ready to be persistant and do it. Technically, she doesn't cry for hours on end like most colicy babies...she's just really fussy and fights sleep. There are times when she won't sleep at all between feedings. I think she gets herself worked up and overly tired. My question is...Will CIO work even if she has colic/fussiness? Is it okay if she cries the entire naptime until her next feeding or should I try to soothe at some point? Is it okay to use a mobile in the crib or it that a distraction?#3 - My husbands parents will be here from out of state to visit from 8/12 - 8/21. They aren't staying at our house, they're staying at a hotel. Should I wait to start CIO until after they've left so that I (and the baby) don't have any distractions and can put 100% into it?Your help/suggestions are greatly appreciated!!
    August 7, 2008 1:10 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    1- When you are first starting BW, I think it is okay to just do a routine. One thing I would strive for is the same wake up time each morning. Consistent Schedule: Start Your Day Right: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/consistent-schedule-start-your-day.html What Time Should I Start My Day: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/what-time-should-i-start-my-day.html Once you feel comfortable in your routine, get started on more of a schedule:Getting a Consistent Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/getting-consistent-schedule.html
    2. In the evening (the time of day she is crying nonstop) you can use the swing. But I would move her to a bed for other naps. See this post:Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html
    3. I think I would wait until they are gone to do CIO, especially if they won't be supportive of it. I think you will be insecure and unsure of what you are doing, and if you have an audience watching, it will make things harder on you and then therefore baby.Good luck!
    August 11, 2008 10:37 AM
  • Realtor.Rhoades said...
    Hi. I'm new to blogging, please forgive me if this is posted in the wrong place. I stumbled across this blog one night when my 8 month old would not sleep. I have been following babywise since 4 weeks old. However I got hung up on the pacifier as a sleep prop. Realized that and took it away at 6 months then I did the cio and within a week my baby was sleeping well at naps and nightime. However at 8 months old I bought BWII and read that meals should align with the adult meal times ( I took that mystakenly to mean 7am 12 and 5pm). So that got me way off track. In order to accomplish that I thought I had to change my babys schedule. When things were working she was awake from 7am to about 7:30pm, eating at 7 11/11:30 and 3:30/4pm then one more bottle at 7pm. When I got the second book and thought I needed to change I tried to switch to feeding her at 7 12 and 4:30 - as close as I could get to the adult schedule. This is when the problems began. She started having the 45 minute intruder during her 2 daytime naps and also random nightwakings. I thought it was teething because she already had 2 bottom teeth and 2 more top teeth just under the gums. Sure enough her first top tooth poked through and the next one still looks like its not far behind. I got her up at 45 minutes and pressed on during the day naps. At night when the wakeing first happened it was out of character I thought it was the tooth and probably was to a degree so I got her up rocked her until drowsy put her back to sleep. But then it kept happening and is still happening at 9 months. She wakes at night and is so upset sometimes ive given her a bottle to get her back to sleep. Its taking me 2.5 hours to get her back to sleep. I don't think its teething now. Also her naps are a disaster. She will sometimes cry the whole nap time 1.5-2 hours or cry and play but not sleep at all or sometimes she cries for 45 min to 1 hr and sleeps for only 45 min. She is cranky. Then about 2 times a week randomly she wakes at about 1:30am and its a 2.5hour process of me getting her to sleep by combo of cio, rocking, sometimes feeding. I feel like the situation is way out of control and I don't know what to do. I know she is extremely alert now and its very hard for her to turn off her brain and sleep. I've spent days reading your blog trying to come up with the best solution. Here is my question... What do I do about the night wakings? I don't mind letting her cio for her naps. I think with persistance this will get corrected. But at night I don't know what is the right approach. She can get to a point where she seems way to worked up to go to sleep and since its the middle of the night I don't have an excuse to get her up and feed her so I don't know what to do. I've gone back to what was working before I tried to stretch her feed times so she is back to a 4-4.5 hour schedule eating at 7 11-11:30 3:30-4 and 7. Ive been back on this schedule for 4 days. What would you do about the night wakings? She doesn't use the swing anymore and never liked it much. She hated swaddling, and she isn't one for much affection, she doesn't do well when I go in there to check on her after say 20 min of crying so I just let her go for the whole nap session. She is much like Brayden from what I've read. Please direct me to the right part of your blog or address it anew. Ive gotten a lot out of this blog so far and I am so grateful to have someone to ask for help this is the only place I can get answers. Thank you.
    September 11, 2008 12:00 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Here is a post on night wakings. Nighttime Sleep Issues: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nightime-sleep-issues.html I think you need to think through the possible solutions and decide what you want to do. If it were me, based on what I know, I think I would give it a week or two of back to the good schedule, then if she is still waking, resort to CIO at night. See also this post since the night wakings started happening in this age group:5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html
    September 16, 2008 3:18 PM

274 comments:

1 – 200 of 274   Newer›   Newest»
Lindsay said...

So sorry you were so sick! I have to hand it to ya, 2 kids, being sick and STILL posting- you are amazing! Thanks for all your help! Hope everybody is feeling better.

Andy said...

This post is so helpful because I've been really working on the schedule lately. My daughter is almost 10 weeks and is only doing six nursings a day (7, 10, 1, 4, 7, 10). Is this okay or do I need to squeeze another feeding in?

Plowmanators said...

Lindsay,

Just another benefit of BW! They are currently sleeping. Earlier, one was sleeping and one was having independent play. Aaahhhhh :)

Plowmanators said...

Andy,

So long as your milk supply seems to be okay (and baby of course), that should be okay. BW says that after 8 weeks old, your baby might be able to move to 6 feedings in 24 hours.

susie said...

I noticed you said at 7 months old, your daughter moved to a 4 hour schedule. But her waketime was only 1.5 hours instead of 2 hours. I was just wondering what made you choose the 1.5 hour waketime. I am trying to move my 7 month old daughter to 4 hours and she is struggling. It is already hard for her to nap solid 2 hours. She usually wakes up after 1 hour and stays awake until time to get up..

Plowmanators said...

The reason for our waketime length is that she couldn't stay up any longer than that. Each baby is different; my son could easily do 2 hours at that age.

Firecracker said...

SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN: I just joined the babywise movement... Right now my son is 16 weeks old. He wakes up between 6-7 in the morning and eats (Bf) every 2 hours until about 7 at night, which is when he will go into night sleep. He will wake up one time during the between 2-4 to eat and then continue to sleep through until 6 or 7 a.m.
According to babwise he is supposed to be going 3-4 hours between feedings. How do I do this?

Plowmanators said...

Firecracker,

I like to do things slowly. I would start by extending feeding times by about 10 minutes. That would involve you trying to distract your baby until it was time to eat. Once he was used to that, I would extend it another 10 minutes. Continue that until you get to 2.5 hours. 2.5 hours would be my first goal. Once that was down, I would continue the extension until I got to 3 hours (or a combo 2.5-3 hour schedule) until he was ready to go longer. From there, just let the schedule naturally extend.

Firecracker said...

Okay so this is my son's schedule, he is 4 months old...
6-wake up nurse
7:30-9 sleep
9- nurse + solids
10-12 sleep
12- nurse
1:30-3 nurse
3- nurse + solids
4:30-6 sleep
6- nurse
6:30- beginning of night sleep
#1 Is my son sleeping (napping) too much?
#2 Do I wake him to feed him if 3 hours has elapsed or do I let him sleep?
#3 This schedule works for me, but my husband comes home from deployment in a month and if My son is going down for the night at like 6 then my husband will never see him awake during the week. How do I adjust?

Plowmanators said...

1. His sleep looks fine, but watch for him to be ready to drop that 4th nap soon. If not drop, at least shorten. Go with when he is ready, but be aware he is at that age when many drop it.

2. Yes. If you consistently need to wake him up for feedings, you can start to extend the schedule. I like to start slowly--like just a feeding or two.

3. Number one and two will help. If he doesn't have that 4th nap, he will be awake in the evening. Also, as he extends the time between feedings, you can push bedtime back a bit.

Becky & Scott said...

Okay, so I am in a bit of a situation. My 3.5 mo old son was doing great a week and a half ago on a 3 hour schedule. Then all of a sudden he isn't taking a full feeding during the day. It might be causing his naps to be interrupted. Also, I have tried to extend his waketime to extend his feeding time, but he is like Kaitlyn and just cannot stay up much past an hour. What do I do? I'm EBF and I don't know how to get him to eat more or should I be changing his feeding schedule? The past few days I have increased the morning feedings to 3.5 hours instead of 3 and it hasn't seemed to help. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Will he sleep longer? You really can't force waketime extensions; it usually just backfires into a shorter nap.

How do you know he isn't taking a full feeding? Is he just eating faster, or is he waking up sooner out of hunger? Both of my kids got significantly faster at nursing at 3 months old--both cut their nursing time in half.

TiredMommy said...

Lots of questions for anyone willing to respond regarding schedules (Plowmanators please kindly weigh in with your advice). We're really struggling with our schedule for our 6 month old daughter (6 mos this week). We haven't started solids yet, but will do so this weekend. Currently, she is on a 2 hr 45 min schedule with 6 "scheduled" liquid feedings, with 1.25 hrs of waketime. Sometimes she sleeps all the way through until the end of her nap and we have to wake her. Other times, she wakes early on her own. On any given day, she will do both pretty consistently.

1) Does dropping a nap always mean dropping a feeding (i.e. wake-feed-nap cycle)? I feel like she is possibly napping too much, as our current schedule has her taking 5 naps, not including nighttime sleep. BUT, I feel like she needs all of her feedings. If I drop a nap and a feeding will she just start eating more at each feeding so that she consumes the same amount in a 24 hour period?

2) Right now she is drinking an average of 4 ounces of breastmilk 6 times per day (approx 24 ounces in a 24 hour period). How much does a typical 6 month old (prior to starting solids) drink in a 24 hour period?

3) Unknowingly I did a really bad thing when she was a newborn and started putting her in a papasan cradle swing for her naps. Now, she doesn't want to nap in the pack n play or crib, she ONLY wants to nap in the swing with it rocking back and forth. UGG! Yes, I did this to myself. Any suggestions on how to overcome this? Do I just continue to use the swing until she doesn't fit in it anymore? Or, do I cut her off "cold turkey" and only offer the pack n play for naps and just deal with the several days of drama that will ensue because she refuses to nap. She has to eventually get tired...right??

4) It seems like she can stay awake much longer in the evening than she can throughout the rest of the day. Does anyone else experience shorter wake time in the AM and extended wake time in the PM?

Thanks so much if you've read this far!

Becky & Scott said...

no, he's definitely not eating well. i decided to pump all day today and give him a bottle so i can record just how much he is eating. he woke up at 4am and i bf him and i know he took a full feeding. he acted like he was starving. then when i woke him up to feed him at 7am, i fed him a bottle and he only ate 1.5oz. but he took a good nap after about 45 min of playtime. then at 10am he wouldn't finish the 2.5oz bottle i gave him. he only ate about 2oz. then of course, his nap after that only lasted about 45 min. and i tried to help him back to sleep. every 15 min he'd wake up screaming. so i knew he was hungry and fed him at 12:30 and he ate 3.5oz. so i'm pretty sure he needs to eat more. should i try to wean him from the 4am feeding? and i have another question, which may seem kind of dumb, but how do you know when they are done with their nap? he seems to fuss alot and cry alot during his naps. I never know when to go get him or encourage him to sleep more.

Plowmanators said...

TiredMommy,

1-No. Definitely not. Your daughter is likely ready to remove naps from her schedule. Most 6 months old will only have 3 naps. Some even start dropping that 3rd nap at 6 months. If you look at my schedules listed, you will see that we had eat, play, eat in the evening.

2-I don't know the answer to that because I breastfeed. I know 24 ounces is what a one year old should get in 24 hours. From things I have seen other moms post, that could be fine. If diapers are wet and she is happy, then it should be enough for her. The book Super Baby Food could answer that for you.

3-If it were me, I would do cold turkey. The older she gets, the harder CIO will get. She will get louder, she will be able to stand in the crib...as hard as it will be for you now, it will likely only get harder.

4-Yes, totally normal. That would be the time-period to drop a nap.

Plowmanators said...

Becky,

I would try to figure out the reason he is eating less in the day. One thing I wonder about is teething. They can have pains months and months before an actual tooth ever breaks through. Many moms say baby eats a lot less in day than night.

You could try dropping the 4 AM feeding, or cutting back. I knew my daughter didn't need the night feeding when she ate well at night but not for breakfast. I slowly cut back the length of time she nursed.

Does he have any medical issues like reflux? My suspicion is some sort of pain associated with eating. If he is eating better while half-asleep than while fully awake, that points to pain while eating.

At your baby's age, it is normal to wake up crying. They usually stop doing that somewhere around 5 months. So at that age, it is hard to tell from their initial wake up. You can better tell in the disposition during waketime. If they are fussier than normal, then they likely had too short of a nap.

Thomas said...

Valerie,
You said You started Brayden at 9 weeks. What age did he sttn? I started mine at 7 weeks. I have not seen her sttn yet. Should i be concerned since she is close to 11 weeks now.

Plowmanators said...

He was 3 months old when he STTN two nights in a row, then never repeated it again until he was 6 months old. Hopefully that will encourage rather than discourage you :)

Firecracker said...

Sorry for harassing you with my never-ending questions... But I got another one for ya. I really wish I had found this book when I was pregnant and not when my son was already 15 weeks old haha. Anyways.
My son is starting to make me nervous. He is beginning to want more wake time in the morning and sleeping longer for his naps in the afternoon. (i.e. moving towards a 4 hour schedule, since we are still at 3-3.5)
The reason this is making me nervous is because he is still not sttn. He used to when he was like 2-3 months old, but stopped once he got close to 4 months. We have a cosleeping situation since I am staying with my Dad. So at night he will begin to stir at say 1 or 2 in the morning but if I get up and go down stairs to sleep he will go back to sleep. Then he wakes at 4 and wants to eat with a final wake up time between 6 and 6:30. So how do I address him lengthening his days since his nights aren't figured out? He is getting a DF still at 9 o'clock.
Thank you so much. You really have no idea how much for site has helped me.
Danielle

hunter'smom said...

I have a question. My son is 4 months and we have been using bw since he was 8 weeks. Lately, I have been having a scheduling problem. He is on a four hour schedule. However, I'm not sure how to keep his schedule the same every day because some days he sleeps longer than other days which means his time that he lays down for a nap is different. He wakes at 7:45 and eats at 8 every morning. The feeding times I always keep the same but if he wakes after an hour and a half, then after he eats he is ready to go to sleep 20 minutes later because he has already been up for so long. How do I fix this and what would a good schedule be for him, and a schedule that will be consistent every day.

Plowmanators said...

This post should help you out:

Getting a Consistent Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/getting-consistent-schedule.html

Let me know if you have questions beyond that.

Firecracker said...

Does that apply to my comment?

Plowmanators said...

Sorry, Danielle, that was for Hunter's mom. I didn't get a notification of your comment? Sometimes it does that. Let me read it over and I wil get back to you :)

Plowmanators said...

Danielle,

That is tricky. You really want the middle of the night feed and the dreamfeed dropped before you extend to a 4 hour schedule.

My guess is that he is capable of STTN if you think he can go 4 hours in the day. I would imagine CIO at night to be hard with your living situation.

See these posts for ideas alternative to CIO in the night and also problem solving night problems:

Nighttime Sleep Issues: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nightime-sleep-issues.html

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

CIO is the fastest way to solve that night issue, but other ways will work too. I haven't ever actually done CIO in the night myself. I do the alternative methods. Good luck!

Lynae said...

Hi Valerie,

Thank for your answer to another question I posted on your blog. I could use some more advice if you don't mind.

1.My son is an inconsistent napper (at 11 weeks) and sometimes it's 45 minutes, sometimes 2.5 hours. This really messes with the 3 hour schedule I'm trying to keep. He's able to only stay awake for about 1 hour so he either wakes too early for the next feeding or sleeps past the next feeding. Should I be limiting his nap length to 1.5 hours? I feel bad doing that because it seems like the long naps are making up for the short ones!

2. He's not sleeping through the night yet and my dream feed is not working well because he totally wakes up and then stays awake crying in his crib for a long time after I put him back. I should probably give up on then do you think?

Thanks for any help!
Lynae

Plowmanators said...

1- I would wake him up at the 3 hour mark, but you can let him sleep until 2 hours that way. Awake for one, sleep for two.

2-If the dreamfeed doesn't work, don't do it. Some moms find that the baby sleeps better without it.

Good luck!

IzzysMama said...

Hi Val, welcome back! We recently dropped the 4th nap and we're still on a 3hr. schedule. The problem is my lo keeps waking up at 6:30 am instead of 7:00 am and is throwing the schedule off by a half hour so we end up with 3 hours of wake time at the end of the day w/o the 4th nap. If she wakes at 7am I would put her to bed at 6:30 pm but I dont want to put her to bed at 6:00 pm when she wakes at 6:30 am. Gosh did any of that make sense?? Do you have any suggestions? Thank you!

Plowmanators said...

I would go for 12 hours of sleep. If bedtime is 6:30, you might need to do a 6:30 waketime until she can stay up long enough. Also, be sure to see today's post on waketime length.

IzzysMama said...

I dont think I made much sense when I wrote that. She isnt able to handle 3 hours of waketime so I would put her to bed 1/2hr. earlier until she gets used to not having the 4th nap, our normal bedtime is 7pm. But she's been waking at 6:30am so a 1/2hr earlier bed time would mean puting her to bed at 6pm...which gets us even further from our goal. Actually yesterday I ended up giving her the 4th nap (2 naps were cut short due to dirty diapers) and she slept much better at night...I had to wake her at 7:00am! I dont think we're ready to rule out that 4th nap just yet...we'll have to play it day by day for now. Last night she had only 1.5hrs waketime before bed and did so much better.

Plowmanators said...

That sounds like good troubleshooting on your part. I would recommend reading the "dropping a nap, a weaning process" post. Kaitlyn took forever to fully drop her third nap. Just take it slowly.

IzzysMama said...

Thanks, I did! We now have a plan in action. :)

Stephanie said...

I need help! My 7 week old daughter who is formula fed cannot seem to make it through a whole nap! I made sure that she woke up at 6:30 this morning and she did eat but then wanted to go immediatly back to sleep. I tried to wake her for some play time, but it didn't work. She then slept till I woke her at 9:30 when she also wanted to go straight back to sleep, but then she only slept for a hour and the whole rest of the day she would only sleep for 30 min before crying - and she cried for 40+ min a few times until I finally just got her up. The rest of the day is just aweful with her crying off and on and I can't decide if she's really hungry. Isn't 2 hours too soon for a formula fed baby to take another meal. I thought we were supposed to be on a 3-4 hour schedule? Should I let her CIO at every nap if thats what happens? What am I doing wrong?

Plowmanators said...

Did she have the 6 week growth spurt? I would be sure she is getting as much food as she needs. You could increase the number of ounces offered or feed more often if she can't eat more.

After that, really work on her having wake time. It is totally normal for her to not nap well if she doesn't have playtime. BW even uses that as an example, saying parents feed the baby to sleep only to have her wake 30 minutes later and the parents wonder what is wrong. It is hard with newborns, especially those really sleepy ones. See this post:

Sleepy Newborns: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/sleepy-newborns.html

Firecracker said...

So my son is still on a three hour schedule, he gets 5 nursing and a dreamfeed. He is sleeping through the night (thank goodness!) and things seem to be going well. But I am wondering if he is ready for a 4 hour schedule. He seems to be able to stay up longer now and his naps are getting shorter. Do I mess with a good thing or do I just let him be?

Plowmanators said...

See this post: When to Move to a 4 hour Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/when-to-move-to-4-hour-schedule.html

If you are needing to wake him up from his nap consistently, then he is most likely ready for a four hour schedule.

Firecracker said...

Funny Story.....
So I posted what like 2.5 days ago about his sleep schedule and if he should move to 4 hours... Well today he decided he wanted to. Ironic huh? He has been going 4 hours between all meals today. woo hoo
We'll see how his sleep goes tonight. Wish me luck!

Plowmanators said...

Good luck! Keep us posted!

Kate said...

At 4 months I saw Kaitlyn's last nursing was at 6:30. What time was her bedtime? I'm just curiuos b/c recently we stopped nursing right before bed and I'm wondering how early a baby can nurse before bedtime.
My daughter sleeps (on a good night) from about 8;15-7:30. Do you think if I fed her at 7 that would be okay or would that be too early?
Thanks for answering my other question. We're going to try working on that this weekend.

Plowmanators said...

Hi Kate,

She was in bed right after eating. It was probably 7:15-7:30. She did have a dreamfeed, though.

I just wouldn't go more than 12 hours between nursing. So if you want her to wake at 7:30 and nurfse, I would nurse her at 7:30. You might be able to go longer. You just want to stay mindful of your milk supply. Some women will pump right before they go to bed to keep that up if they need to. If your baby can handle 7-7:30, then be mindful of milk supply and it will be fine!

Kate said...

Thanks! She's still eating once during the night but it's usually aroun 3-4AM.

Judy said...

I noticed in Kaitlyn's schedule at 4 months, she did not have a nap between her 430 and 630 feedings. When is it okay not implement the eat/wake/nap pattern? Was Kaitlyn able to stay awake for the whole two hours? My 13 week old son has a similar schedule, 7,10,1,4,630, bed at 8/830,11,3. I was wondering if I should feed him when he goes to bed at 8/830 to help him STTN and not wake him for dreamfeed. It is difficult waking him up for his 11 dreamfeed. He is in deep sleep and very drowsy. Please advise.

Plowmanators said...

The first time you don't really have the eat/wake/sleep cycle is at that age when they drop the fourth nap and go down to three naps a day. I would definitely try to feed at 8:30 and see how he does. If it doesn't work out, you can always go back :)

tracimstewart said...

My baby is 9.5 weeks old. We bottlefeed her breastmilk that I pump. She has always been a great sleeper, and her waketimes are fairly short. It's difficult to keep her awake longer than 1.5 hours during each waketime the day. About two weeks ago, she stopped waking in the middle of the night to feed and was able to sleep from 9p-7a. We were on a 3 hour schedule during the day and she was getting 6 feedings. After about a week of good nights, we noticed that she was having a harder time falling back to sleep after the last feeding of the day (9pm with no waketime). And she also started to cry around 5:30 am. We let her cry out the 5:30 am wake up with success. This week, we tried switching to a 3.5 hour schedule and 5 feedings, because we noticed that we were consistently needing to wake her from her naps (see BW page 123 "how to drop a feeding"). I don't know if it is a coincidence, but getting her back to sleep after the last feeding of the day has gotten even more difficult. Last night she woke up every 1-2 hours crying throughout the entire night. We fed her once, although that didn't settle her down. It really didn't seem like hunger waking her up. And we know she can go longer at night. Any recommendations?

Plowmanators said...

First, just so you know, 1.5 hour of waketime is actually long for her age, so she is totally fine in that area. Most babies her age will only be able to do about 1 hour of waketime.

One thing to point out is that BW recommends not dropping a day feeding until you drop that last feeding of the day (your 9 PM feeding, commonly referred to as a dreamfeed).

If it were me, I think I would go back to the 3 hour schedule and see if that fixes things. If so, you know she wasn't ready for 5 feedings a day.

Also, BW doesn't suggest moving to a longer than 3 hour schedule until 12 weeks at the oldest. It also recommends at least 6 feedings a day until at least 13 weeks. So, if your baby isn't ready for 5 feedings and a longer schedule, don't feel like she isn't progressing, she would actually be right on track :)

momtobobby said...

I have a 4 1/2 month old who definitely wants to move to a four hour routine, but I am not sure how to do this b/c he is not consistently going 4 hours between meals. He will go 4 hours a couple of times a day and then will do 3 to 3 1/2 hours. Of course this throws off the whole day and I find myself feeding him 2 hours apart at the end of the day trying to get that 5th feeding in by bedtime. He doesn't like that because he spits up a lot from being too full. Should I just force him to wait four hours between meals? Should I feed him more at each feeding so he will wait 4 hours?

momtobobby said...

One more question about the 4 hour routine:) Bobby has about an hour and a half of waketime and then takes about an hour to an hour and a half nap. That leaves about 45 minutes to an hour before the nest feeding if I move to a 4 hour routine. Is that okay? Should I just let him play during that time? I love this blog! Thank you for your dedication to helping us new and confused mommys:)

Plowmanators said...

Hi, I appologize, I wasn't notified of your first question, so I am glad you posted a second one :)

You are at one of those difficult transitional periods where things just aren't smooth. Have 45-60 minutes between waking and eating is not ideal. It is going to put you into a spin of throwing off your cycle. You can have 15-20 minutes...but 45-60 is a lot. Since he is having 1.5 waketime, that would mean he eats and then takes his nap shortly after he is done eating, which throws off your eat/wake/sleep.

Since you asked if you should force him to wait 4 hours, I assume he will eat sooner than 4? If it were me, I would do a combo 3-4 hour schedule for now until either he takes longer naps or he can stay awake longer. I would only have one 4 hour interval at the most right now (and only if he needs it). For example (just as an example):

7AM eat
11AM eat
2:30PM eat
5:30 PM eat
8PM eat

If he won't eat 2.5 at the end of the day, I would move the 2:30 to 2 and 5:30 to 5 and then do 8.

A combo schedule is just fine. I would just avoid moving to a 4 hour before he can make it the whole time; you will only cause stress for yourself if you move early. Before too long, he should be at a point where this transition is a bit easier. Good luck!

Fortibus Marketing of Charleston, L.L.C said...

Hello Postmaster,

Thank you for your time and wisdom! My son sounds like how Brayden was so I appreciate you posting his info too. He is almost 7 months, is on a 4 hr schedule. His naps will be 1.5 - 2 hours long. For his first 2 naps he rarely sleeps for the full 2 hours. He seems to fight the cat nap but you can tell he is tired his cat nap is around 4:30-5:00 or later depending on when he starts to get tired (if you have any suggestions for this please let me know). His bed time is between 8-8:30pm. I want he is supposed to wake at 6:30 but for the past few weeks or so he wakes at 6 am..YIKES!! Even if we have a busy night and he goes to bed at 9pm he still wakes at 6 am! I nurse him and feed him solids at 6:30pm and then nurse him before I put him down for bed. Should I nurse him at 6:30 and then feed him solids closer to his bed time?? It seems like all he needs is about 13.5 hours of sleep a day and he is good to go. What do you suggest we do to have a later wake up time???

Plowmanators said...

You know, I have really found June to be a low-sleep month in general. The sun is up the longest, and if you have a sun-rising baby, then you have a much earlier waketime and a later bedtime (because a sun riser is usually also a sun setter).

It is totally normal for a child to wake at the same time even if going to bed later.

You could try to do nursing and solids at 8:30, but I think closer to 6:30 is probably better. I would just try to back up wake up time by waking 15 minutes later at a time, hopefully getting him to sleep later. I would also consider the possibility of other reasons waking him (sun, heat, cold, etc.).

abigail's mom said...

Hi,
My baby is starting the 9th week of life.

Her schedule is as follows...
(astricks *** are next to PROBLEMS i am having in the schedule)

7:30 nurse
8:30 nap

10:30 nurse
11:30 nap

1:00 nurse
2:30 nap

4:00 nurse
**** nap ****

6:30 nurse
7:30 nap

8:30 nurse
***bedtime***


10:30 nurse (dreamfeed)
****go right back to sleep****

5am (she wakes up on her own at this time for this dreamfeed)
go right back to sleep


-------

questions:

1. before the 4pm nursing she woke so happy. until this point she has not cried at all or very little goign down for naps. after feeding her i put her down for a nap at 5:30 (1.5 hour wake time)she cries until 5:50 where i go, pick her up, and put her back down. she continues to cry until 6:10 on and off. by that time it is almost her 6:30 feed so i take her out and just play w/ her unti 6:30.

this is consistently a hard time for her to nap.

should i just omit this nap completely and just keep her up from her 4 pm feed until her next 6:30 feed? what would you do?

2. in your schedule you made kaitlin's bedtime at 8:30pm right after that feeding. however, after i feed abigail at 8:30, when i put her in the crib, she will cry VERY LOUD indefinitely...every 20 minutes we go to comfort and put her back down). we found the only thing that keeps the crying to a minimum is put her down at 8:30, let her cry, go get her 9:10 let her feed again, put her down, let her cry until 10 feed her again, and then she goes down to sleep.

once asleep she goes 7 hours until the morning. this 8-10pm period is the hardest part of the day.

its very inconvenient to have her so fussy during prime evening hours and its stressful to hear her crying non stop fro 8-10.

please any suggestions or recommendations on how you would handle this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Plowmanators said...

1. Part of it might just be normal fussiness for a baby, but I would suggest you try to put her down earlier--maybe even after only one hour. She is young enough that 1.5 hours might be too much for her; my daughter was still at only 1 hour waktime for part of the day at 7 months.

2. It seems this is not all that uncommon. I might try giving her some waketime. My son had a later bedtime. Some kids just need more sleep than others and more waketime than others. Find what works for her and do it that way. You will see that my two children have been very different and had different schedules. As Kaitlyn has gotten older, he schedule has come to be more similar to Brayden's, but it is still not just what his was. She is a different person with different needs. Take what you can from the samples, but always do what you find to be best for your baby. Experiment and see what works. It might take some time. Have heart. I know it is a lot or work, but it really pays off in the end.

germansheps said...

My son will be 10 mos shortly and I am looking for a sample schedule. I started out babywise and now I feel like I have lost my way. It seems like the only time he goes down for a nap is immediately after I nurse him! Not what I want and I know that is not what is best for him. It seems like he can eat less often then his current every 3 hour schedule but I do not want to compromise my milk supply. He is teething and has been refusing to nap for the past couple days - but honestly I think it is because I am missing his cues and he is overtired by the time I get him to bed. Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!!! Also - I try to feed him solids immediately after nursing him but he is not too interested and would prefer to wait....which also throws off our schedule.

Ashley & Rhett said...

Hi,
I have a question about your 3 month's schedule. I notice that you said she would wake at 6 AM and you would feed her, then the wake up time is 7:30AM. So, would you feed her at 6, put back to sleep, then wake at 7:30 to feed and start the day? MY 12 week old son is doing the same. I dreamfeed him at 10, then he wakes at 6 AM and I feed him and we start the day. I would love to have our wake time at 7:30, so should I put him back to sleep after the 6 AM feeding? Do you think he will eat a full meal 1 1/2 hours later? :) Thanks for your thoughts.
Ashley

Plowmanators said...

germansheps,

I would encourage you to try out a longer schedule. At 10 months, your supply should be well-established. He will eat the same amount, just take larger portions at a sitting.

For the solids, try nursing one side, solids, nursing the other.

Take a look at the 9 month and 11 month schedules above to get ideas for what you can be doing for your son. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Hi Ashely,

Yes, she ate at 6 AM, then I woke her at 7:30 to start the day. I would encourage you to try to put him right back down, then wake him at 7:30-8:00. He will likely take less than he usually would, but you want to establish that waketime. If he won't eat at all, it is a good sign he can drop that 6 AM and move it out. See this post for more on that:

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

melis said...

I am so happy to have found your website. I wish I would have had it when my three year old was born. She was a babywise nightmare. Anyway, now I have a 5 month old little boy and I am doing babywise again. Here is my problem:
My little boy is a great sleeper. Sleeping consistently 11 hours straight at night since he was 9 weeks old (formula fed). He took 4 great naps at the time and soon after 3 months started sleeping longer during naps and switched himself to a four hour schedule. I tried to fight that in the beginning and feed him every three hours, but he just refused to eat and I didn't want to force feed him. He would just cry when you layed him back to give him the bottle. So I just got over it, and let him switch to four hour schedule. He would wake at 7:30 eat and nap at 8:45 and sleep until 11:30. Eat at 11:45, nap at 1:15 and sleep until 4:00pm. Eat and nap again around 5:15 for maybe 30 minutes. Then I would let him play and then bath at 6:30 then bottle and bed at 7:30. It was WONDERFUL! Now he is having a little switcheroo! He is still in the bed at 7:30, but he started waking up around 5:45 and just talks to himself. One day I just decided to wait and see what he did. After 30 minutes of talking, he went back to sleep without fussing and slept until 7:45. It put our schedule off a little, but I was trying to be a little flexible. He took his nap at 9:00 (instead of 8:45) and has started waking after 45 minutes not crying. He talks to himself and hardly ever cries-he sounds happy as if he is ready to get up. I once again decided to leave him alone and after 40 minutes of talking he went back to sleep and slept 2 more hours. So then his afternoon schedule is crazy and he eats around 12:30, then asleep at 2:00 (instead of 1:15) and does the same thing. Wakes up after 45 minutes, talks and goes back to sleep for 2 hours. Then it is around 5:00pm. Too late for 3rd nap so I keep him up and bed at same time which puts those feeding closer together (2.5 hours)but he does accept this pretty easily.
PLEASE HELP! I know that I could have worse problems, but why is he waking up. It is so frustrating. Is it just a phase? I know it is not hunger because he never cries and goes back to sleep without any trouble. Some some suggestions would be great. How to deal with the early morning wakeup and going back to sleep. How to deal with the 45 minute wakeup during naps and then sleeping on? I know I should probably wake him up, but he is so grouchy after I do that. I know he needs his sleep. Or maybe just deal with it for now and he will stop waking up early in the morning and after 45 minutes? Is this his new schedule? Your suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

melis said...

Oh, one more thing. About the time this all started, I switched him from his bassinet to his bed. Maybe that has something to do with it? But he has been in the new bed for over a week.

Thanks and sorry for the novel, but I really need your help.

Plowmanators said...

Melis,

See this post:

5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html

Also:

Easy Nap Fix: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/easy-nap-fix.html

It might be that he is used to sleeping in one place and is learning to sleep somewhere else. A lot of babies will have sleep disruptions when moving beds. Good luck!

darcie said...

I'd love your advice!
My baby has been on a three hour "pattern", as you've aptly distinguished from a schedule, since birht--except at night when I've fed him anytime he's woken up which has been 4+. He didn't always eat much before dozing right back off. I recently moved him to another room and after two nights it looks like he's only really waking up twice and all the other times I was just responding before he could fall back asleep. He's now 15 weeks and I'm trying to introduce BW to our lives. I'm having a very hard time drawing up a schedule because feeding/napping times have always varied for him or his naps have been interrupted by our lives. Ironically, I've kept a sleep log since he was born but am also having a hard time creating a schedule to implement because in the last week or so he's started sleeping 1.5-2 hours at naps (some not all and different naps each day). He's NEVER napped longer than an hour before so I'm noting it as a change in development. I'm trying to clear our schedule this week so I can watch him closely without external interruptions but thought I should loosely start guiding him into a set schedule.
He's mostly BF but I a couple meals a day I find he's unsatisfied and supplement. He has no problem going 2 hours between naps but I've never known him to go longer without fussing. Here's a rough look at what I'm considering:
7:00 wake and feed
9:00-11:00 nap
11:00 feed (this 4 hour spread has been what he's done the last few days on his own)
1:00-2:30 nap
2:30 feed (this is 3.5)
4:30-5:30 nap
5:30 feed (this one's 3)
7:30-8:30 nap
8:30 feed (another 3)
10:00 bed
11:00 dreamfeed? (2.5)
Is it crazy to have so many combinations (2.5-4)?
I just don't know about staying up much later than 11 to dreamfeed him. Why isn't it recommended to feed him before his bedtime? Because it's too close to his last meal? I've always done a bath and bottle for his bedtime routine because I don't want him to fall asleep nursing but want him to go to sleep with a full belly. Right now it looks like he gets up 3.5 hours into the night for his first meal and around 5:00 am for his second. I don't want to CIO until he has a firm daytime schedule because I think it may eliminate one of his night feeds.
I'm slowly making it through your past posts (I just found your blog) including the starting babywise late, bedtime, consistent schedule: start your day right, getting a consistent schedule, when to move to a four hour schedule. I have soooo many more to read so thank you thank you thank you for this resource. Any suggestions for us would be great. I do struggle with my milk supply but love that he's gained the ability to nap for 2 hours. So I'm open to adding another meal to the day to eliminate night but keep up my milk, but am not sure how to fit all the napping and eating in! Decisions, decisions. :)

darcie said...

As a follow up...it looks like my son only takes two hour naps after he's had a supplementary bottle after BFing. Even though he's ready to sleep for longer periods of time, perhaps I need to start on a 3 hour schedule and shift gradually to keep up the milk? Sniffle sniffle. I've loved the two hour nap but I want to BF as long as possible.

Plowmanators said...

Darcie,

The first note I would make is that two hours of wake time is most likely going to be too much for him at 15 weeks. He will most likely be from about 60-90 minutes (including feeding).

It is perfectly fine to have combo schedules, but I might knock the 4 hour down to 3.5...and BW suggests not going up to 3.5 at all until baby can sleeps 7-8 hours in the night without a feed. Baby needs so many feedings in a 24 hour period, and if there aren't enough in the daytime, there will need to be some in the night.

I would also put him to bed really soon after his 8:30 feeding. I would feed, do bedtime routine, and put in bed.

This post should help:

Sample Schedules : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/sample-schedules.html

If you want to continue to breastfeed for a long time, I would cut out the supplementary feedings. You can take it back slowly so your body has time to make up what he needs. So long as you don't have a medical condition that prevents you from making enough milk, your body will make what he needs if you give it the chance. He might not nap as long right now as he would on formula right now, but at some point breastmilk has more calories than formula (as baby gets older, calories per ounce increase in breastmilk, though not formula).

Debbie said...

Hi,

I'm trying to transition my 6 month old daughter from BF to solids and I don't want to mess up a good thing. Her schedule is as follows...
7AM FEED
8:30 NAP
10AM FEED
11:30 NAP
1PM FEED
2:30 NAP
4PM FEED
7PM FEED

What time do you suggest I introduce solids and nap her? Should I switch her to a 4hr schedule?

Thanks

SMonty said...

My little girl is 15 weeks old today and for the past week I have had a terrible time putting her down for naps. She also has become disinterested in her 8:00 pm feeding. I thought about going to a 3.5 hr. routine, but that would drop her down to 5 feedings and I wasn't sure if it was too soon for this??? I wondered if I should try dropping her DF first? Please help! This is my schedule as of right now:
8:00 am Nurse
9:30 am Nap
11:00 am Nurse (usually have to wake her)
1:00 pm Nap
2:00 pm Nurse
3:30 pm Nap (having a hard time with this one)
5:00 pm Nurse
7:00 pm Nap (having hard time w/this one)
8:00 pm Nurse
9:30 pm Bed
10:30 pm Bottle of expressed milk given to her by daddy (DF)

Thanks

TwinMommy89015 said...

Hi,

Your blog is extremely helpful. The info/help I'm looking for might be here somewhere, but I'm just not finding it. I have been doing BW with my 6 month old twin girls since they were 3 weeks. They were STTN (10.5 hours) by 9 weeks. We are currently on a 3 hour schedule, which works fine for me. However, they will not nap longer than 30-40 minutes. I have tried the nap fixes. If I put them down earlier, they play or scream in their crib. They are averaging about a 1.5 to 2 hour wake time. The problem is that with the short naps they are waking up before the next feeding so our schedule is becoming eat, play, sleep, play, eat, play, sleep... Is it possible that they only need the short naps? I would love to try two naps a day but I can't figure out the right schedule for it and I am afraid that if they only sleep for 40 minutes that my entire day will be shot with fussy babies. Also, both have reflux and they seem to need slightly different amounts of sleep but I am keeping them on the same schedule for my sanity... Could you suggest a good two nap schedule? They currently take their first and last feedings at 6am and 6 pm which works out great for my schedule.

Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Debbie,

I would leave her on the exact same schedule and start to introduce the solids. I would introduce at the 7 AM feed so you have all day to watch for possible allergies. Remember to only do one feed a day for the first bit. See the many solids posts for more on that. On your current schedule, I would feed solids at 7, 1, then either 4 or 7. I would do 7, but some do 4.

It will likely take her at least a month to be eating enough solids consistently to make a huge difference for her schedule (as far as extending). Just watch for the signs. It will likely come within the next month or two.

Plowmanators said...

SMonty,

Drop the dreamfeed first. You want that long uninterrupted sleep before you drop a day feeding. See the dropping a dreamfeed post:

Dropping the "Dream Feed": http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/dropping-dream-feed.html

Plowmanators said...

TwinMommy, Reflux does often delay good sleep. Once that calms down, their sleep should improve.

Do they sleep in the same crib? I don't have experience with twins, but if they sleep in the same bed I would guess they are disturbing each other at this age. If so, you could even just get a pack and play and put it somewhere and trade who sleeps where.

If you think they need to do only two naps, I would shoot for 8 (2 hours after waking) and 12 (two hours after waking assuming they sleep 2 hours for first nap). The problem is that they are then up from 2-bedtime, again assuming they take a two hour nap.

Things should get easier soon as they are able to stay up longer with more success. Good luck!

TwinMommy89015 said...

I put the girls in separate cribs at about 10 weeks because one was kicking the other while they were settling in for naps. There was not much worse than when the sleeping twin was woken up this way - talk about grumpy!
I don't know if I'll try the two nap approach since I really don't expect they will sleep for two. At least with the short naps they are staying well rested and happy. I will keep troubleshooting the nap length/waketime for a while and see if anything improves. I keep wondering if maybe they are getting what they need and it just doesn't match up with my hope for 1.5 hour naps. I can't even imaging what I would do with a break that long anymore. Probably sleep LOL!

Plowmanators said...

lol! Sleep is right :) Have you seen the twins post? I don't know if anything in there will help or not. My friend Lauren is one of the contributers on that post. I know she said she uses a white noise machine or fan or something in the room to prevent her twins from waking each other. I don't know if that is in that post or not, but I know she does it.

Babywise and Twins: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/babywise-and-twins.html

TwinMommy89015 said...

Twins post was nice. I guess we all just pretty much do what works. Keeping them on schedule definitely makes twins less stressful! Thanks for all the helpful information. I am reading Babywise II now. Will be working on conquering rasberries while eating solid foods... Things have gotten a little messy! At least only one of them is doing it!

Plowmanators said...

Oh that is funny. At least only one. At least you have a good perspective on things :)

TwinMommy89015 said...

HA! If you thought that was funny, I broke the one (Melanie) of it and the next day the other one (Sarah) decided it was her turn! Truly never ending fun with these two!
Got an hour and 15 minute nap from Sarah yesterday. Not sure what happened to lead to that but sure am going to try and figure that out. Daddy was on watch at the time so props to him for hitting the mark. Melanie on the other hand seems to be suffering from a lot of teething pain. She took her morning nap, a 10 minute snooze after the 9 am feeding and a 5 minute snooze after the noon. Finally after the 3pm feeding I got her to go down for nearly an hour and a half. Got lots of one on one time with each yesterday but boy was I tired by the end of it all! Of course, if I can get them both to take the one longer nap at the same time it will be heaven! I must just love the insanity of it all because now we've added an 8 week old puppy to the mix! Now the fun truly never stops :)

Shawna said...

I have been working on my 6 month old son's naps and I have determined that he can do 1.5-2 hours of wake time, but the problems I am having are that if I put him down at 9:30 instead of 10 he wakes up at 11:30 and he has to wait till 12 to eat. Then in the afternoon if I put him down at 1:30 he will wake up at 3 and thats 1 hour before his 4pm feeding. He will not sleep longer than 1.5-2 hours. We always sturggle with the afternoon nap. Alos, in the afternoon I feed him at 4, 6 and 8 he isn't that hungry at neither the 6 or 8 feeding do I need to just feed him at 4 and 8? How should I modify his schedule? Does he need to be on a 3.5 schedule? He seems completely fine eating every 4 hours, but I am having trouble making the naps work. He hasn't been taking an evening catnap in about a month. I have found that if he takes a catnap then he will wake up 2 hours early in the morning. This has been his schedule:

8:00am-8:30am Diaper Change and Eat bottle and solids

8:30am- 10:00am Awake

10:00am-12:00pm Nap

12:00pm-12:30pm Diaper Change and Eat bottle and solids

12:30am-2:00pm Awake

2:00pm-4:00pm Nap

4:00pm-4:30pm Diaper Change and Eat 6 oz bottle

4:30pm-5:30pm Awake

6:00pm-6:30pm Diaper Change and Eat bottle and solids

6:00pm-7:45pm Awake

7:45pm Bath

8:00pm Eat 6oz

8:30pm Bedtime

Thank you so much!

Shawna

LEM said...

I love your blog! You have helped me so much and I could really use your suggestions again. My son will be 11 weeks soon and his schedule looks like this:

7am - wake/feed
8am - nap
10am - wake/feed
11am - nap
1pm - wake/feed
2pm - nap
4pm - wake/feed
5pm - nap
7pm - wake/feed/bath
8pm - bedtime
10:30pm - dreamfeed

I am having a few issues though. 1) his naps are not always 2 hours long sometimes they are only 1 or 1.5 hours and sometimes he wakes intermittently. If he's content I usually let him be but sometimes he'll just stay awake until I come get him. If I get him when he wakes early would I have to adjust my schedule for the rest of the day? He can only to 1 hour of waketime. But if I feed him earlier than the 3 hour mark I know he won't be hungry. Which brings me to my next issue -

2) He's not always hungry. At 2 months he is getting about 20-23 ounces of formula in 24 hours. The doctor says he's gaining weight appropriately so she's not worried but I feel he should be eating more. I wanted to work on dropping the dreamfeed soon but I wonder if this would make it worse!

3) He is consistently these days waking around 5 am and fussing on and off until I come get him at 7. I don't go in earlier because he is fussy but not crying and his eyes are even still closed.

Is there any changes I should make to my schedule to deal with these issues or is this just a quirky phase he is going through and I should just give it time?

Plowmanators said...

TwinMommy, That is funny. The puppy thing is insanity! We got a puppy when Brayden was 13 months old and that was hard enough. Good luck with it all! Sounds like you have your hands full.

Plowmanators said...

Shawna,

You can have about 20 minutes of waketime after waking to eat if needed, but I wouldn't do an hour. I would cut back to a 3.5 hour schedule for now. To feed every four hours then every two is quite the jump.

8:00
11:30
3:00
6:00
8:00

I would try that eating schedule and see if it goes better. It is possible that he needs to drop that 6 feeding. I would try this first since he isn't sleeping long enough to make the four hour schedule yet.

Plowmanators said...

LEM,

1-See this post about that:

Waketime When Baby Wakes Early : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/waketime-when-baby-wakes-early.html

and

Waketime When They Wake Early: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/waketime-when-they-wake-early.html

If he consistently wakes after 1.5 hours at certain times of day, I would make that the schedule. A 1.5 hour nap is acceptable.

2-It could make it worse, but it could possibly increase the amount he eats at other feedings. One thing, though, is I would encourage you to let him set the pace. He knows what he needs. Since the doctor is comfortable with it, I wouldn't worry about it.

3-Since he is doing this, I would probably wait until that stops before dropping the dreamfeed. It might all be a quirky phase.

Kara said...

I just wanted to echo the thanks that others have left here! This site has been very helpful and it has been great reading about other mothers who love the BW method. We were given the book while I was still pregnant and it was also recommended by a few other mothers. My husband and I couldn't be more happy with it!

Having said that, I do have a couple of questions. My son will be 3mos in a couple of days. He is currently eating at 6:30, 9:30, 12:30, 4, 7, and 10. He is able to stay awake in the afternoon for about 1.5 hours and then get a 2 hour nap (between the 12:30 and 4 feedings). Here are my questions:
1. I have not the best at actually waking up at 6:30. My son has to be woken up at 6:30 and I have found myself sleeping in to 7 the last couple of days. Is that a problem with that only being 2.5 hours? I would rather not adjust the rest of the feedings later (which is also part of my next question).
2.My son has a fussy period between his 7 and 10 feeding. We have tried putting him down for naps then, but he usually doesn't sleep when we are at home. We are very active in our church, which means that most Sunday nights and ever Wed night, we are not home and usually don't get home until it is time for his 10 feeding. When we are out, he will catnap while being held, in his carseat, or in a pack-n-play. His 10 feeding is not a df because he is often already awake. Is that preventing him for napping btw those feedings when we are at home? Church is something that we are not willing to change, but that makes it hard to have a earlier bedtime. Should we just let him CIO on the evenings that we are home? Any suggestions???

Thanks again for all of the postings and comments. Everyone who sees my son comments on how happy and content he is. BW has worked wonders for him and our family. I get really angry at the BW bashers and don't think that they fully understand what BW is all about!

Plowmanators said...

You could let him sleep until 7 and then cut the 12:30-4 stretch down to 3 hours if needed. He might not eat as well at 9:30 after 2.5 hours, especially if you are BFing because you will have a lot of milk in the morning.

I personally would try to get him to go down after the 7 feeding and have that be bedtime, not naptime. I didn't do that with my son, and we had to slowly work back bedtime as he got older. With my daughter, I treated after 7 as bedtime and just put her down. It has always been much easier.

That is a normal time of day to be fussy. If he won't sleep, just keep doing what you are doing but know that at some point you are going to have to move bed up. I would consider not napping between 4 and 7 and skip that sleeping period rather than the 7-10 one. But do what workds for your schedule.

jookie33 said...

Please Help!!

My baby is 15 weeks old (born 3.5 weeks early) He is on a 3 hr schedule and used to sleep from
10pm-4am. I thought that wasn't even that good for his age. Lately he has been waking at 1am or 2am to eat and he is hungry then waking at 4 again to eat. His waketime is 7:30. He doesn't like a pacifier and if I go in to check on him he cries even harder. He rarely falls asleep if I do CIO or falls asleep only to wake up an hour later (and he is hungry) Is there something else I should be doing?? I am ready to cry.. It just seems like he never hit any of the BW milestones when he should have. Oh and he eats for a long time like 45 minutes during the day.. he is awake 1.5 hrs sleeps 1.5 hrs and his schedule before he did this waking up was 4am feed, (start of day)7:30 feed, 10:30 feed, 1:30 feed, 4:00 feed, 6:30 feed , 9:00 feed bed and now wakes at 1 or two THIS STINKS!! Please help

Plowmanators said...

If he is hungry, the best thing to do is to feed him. Since he was born early, he most likely will meet milestones much later--at least 3.5 weeks earlier, but perhaps longer since development outside the womb is slower than inside.

You can try feeding him every 2.5 hours in the day to get an extra feeding in to try to prevent the night one, or at least get it later in the night.

JenningsFamily said...

my darling 9wk old girl is on a 3 hr schedule, from 7.30am to 10.30pm (so 6 feeds) she has been sleeping through since 4.5wks!! didnt expect this, but she just kept pushing the middle of the nite feed back and then went all the way through. anyway, given that she sleeps those 8.5hrs every night, at what point do i look at dropping the dreamfeed? should i do it earlier as she is sleeping so well, or not mess w a good thing? i cant seem to find in BW when the DF is dropped... will day schedule change first?

momtobobby said...

Just when I think that I have it all figured out...:) Bobby is now 8 1/2 months old and he is so off schedule. The reason for this is because his eating habits are totally changing. The dr. said that he should be getting 24 ozs of formula a day and 3 solid feedings. So I am trying to give him four 6 oz bottles and 3 solid feedings a day. The problem is that he doesn't like the bottle anymore. It is a fight to get him to finish a bottle-- he will usually only take 4 ozs. Because he will only take 4 ozs, I try to sneak in a bottle here and there to make up the difference. This is the problem--it is throwing off his feeding schedule. He is not sleeping well at night either. He wakes up and cries a few times a night. Do you think that is all tied to his disrupted schedule? Should I just give him 4 oz + solids and hope that he starts to take more? Should I move him to a sippy cup? I'm so confused!! Thanks for your help!!! Tami

momtobobby said...

I thought of a couple more details that might help with the prognosis:) He is taking 2 good naps and 1 catnap a day still. Should I drop the catnap? Also, when we are out in public he will not take a nap, b/c he is soooo interested in everything going on. I've noticed that if he doesn't get his 2 good naps, he doesn't sleep as well at night--He'll fall asleep very quickly, but then wake up multiple times a night. He has also had a cold for a couple of weeks. Do you think that could be a contributing factor?? Thanks so much!!
Tami

momtobobby said...

Just to give a follow up...He was sick! He is just starting to feel better and is definitely back on schedule. Poor little guy!

Plowmanators said...

Jennings,

You drop the dreamfeed first. She is approaching an age she could be ready. See this post:

Dropping the "Dream Feed": http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/dropping-dream-feed.html

Plowmanators said...

Tami, I am glad you figured it out! I apologize, I didn't even know your posts were there.

LEM said...

My 5 month old is on a great schedule. But I am a planner by nature (just read your "first born" post and that fits me perfectly!) and I want to know when the next change in his schedule will come at what that change will be as far as his feedings go. I think I'm pretty clear on the naps, and at what point he drops them but I'm still unsure of his feedings. His current schedule looks like this:

7am - wake, formula, cereal
9-11 - nap
11am - wake, formula, cereal
1-3 - nap
3pm - wake, formula, cereal
5-5:30 - "cat nap"
7pm - evening bottle then bath
8pm - bedtime

Eventually I will add fruits and veggies to his meals and his 3rd name will be dropped possibly at 6 months. Other than that, what's the next step with his schedule and about what age comes the next change?

JenningsFamily said...

hi valerie,
sorry to bother you again when you are pg and very busy and all!! i just have a follow up question (i asked earlier about whether to drop DF or go to 4 hr schedule first). i am confused if i have got this right and the book doesnt seem all that clear! as background, my 3 month old baby girl has been on a 3 hr routine since birth and STTN since 4.5wks. so im thinking as she sleeps so well its time to start changing routine...
SO - i am starting to work on dropping the dreamfeed (am moving back in 15mins each night plus decreasing amount).
*do i keep her on a 3hr schedule until DF is totally dropped and shes sleeping 12hrs?
*do u have to wait till your on solids (or baby is, lol) before starting 4 hr schedule
*as she is so much older now, should i start increasing her waketime but keep her on 3hr schedule? eg she has been up for 1hr down for 2. if she can handle it, could i increase waketime a bit to 1.5 hrs or something, still on 3 hr scehdule till DF is dropped? (i just assume she is ready to be awake a bit more, but if i drop the DF first she will still be on 3hr?)
im just confused on the recomended order of things and how you know you are ready to do what? lol sorry this is confusing!! thanks, kate

Plowmanators said...

LEM, since you are on the 4 hour schedule, you are pretty much going to remain the same for a long time. Be aware that few drop that nap at 6 months. For those who start, it is more of a decrease--so a shorter nap. Most drop around 8 months, though some later.

I keep feedings 4 a day and 4 apart until 12 months. You have reached the point that things stay pretty consistent (finally). Not to say that he won't throw you for loops, but there shouldn't be any major changes until that 3rd nap is dropped.

Plowmanators said...

Kate,

Keep the 3 hour routine until DF is totally dropped. Many people wait a month before then trying for a 4 hour unless baby insists upon it. Note that you shouldn't move to 10-1212 hours of sleep until baby is between 16 and 24 weeks.

You don't have to be on solids before moving to 4 hour schedule.

I would be cautious about extending waketime-I definitely wouldn't extend by 30 minutes. I increase in 5 minute increments, but only when baby is showing signs of needing it. Since she is sleeping well after being awake for 1 hour, I would stick to that.

The way you know...it is hard to know the first time. It is easier the second time through, but I still held off with Kaitlyn longer than needed because I just wanted to be sure she was ready for things before we did it.

JenningsFamily said...

thanks so much valerie!! its becoming clearer (i find the schedule stuff in the book really hard to understand as its so general)... so basically i should stick with what im doing?! :) and not try to drop the late night feed till 16wks at the earliest? is that cos of milk supply or cos they still need that amount of feeds? (just curious).
then (for example) at 16wks i can drop dreamfeed, then a few weeks after try for the 4hr schedule?
like previous poster, i like to know what im working towards!
oh one more thing: yes i will try slowly extending wake time by 5 mins if she isnt showing tired signs and see how we go.
your blog is such a blessing THANKS!! kate

LEM said...

Thanks for all your helpful advice! I hope you are feeling better by the way.

I am again in need of some of your thoughts. As mentioned previously my5 month old schedule works great. The problem that I am having now is that he is not always hungry at the 4 hour mark. He eats his solids with no problem but not his formula. I have a hard time getting him to take 24 ounces in a day (which is what the doctor says he should have at least). It makes me think that he's ready for aligning meals with the family but 1) I am not sure how to do that as far as tweaking the schedule and 2)I'm not sure if the is really what it is. But why else would he not want to eat after 4 hours? Or even after 12 hours for his 7am feeding? He does eat, just not as much. Like he's not very hungry.

And then, of course, if he doesn't eat well at his 7am feeding for example then for his 11am feeding he is starving! And the cycle continues. Do you think he's ready to space them out more? How would I do that if so?

Over Thinker said...

I have a 7mo boy and am on 4 hour schedule. I noticed that your sample schedule above suggests to feed baby solids at the 7pm feeding. I have been giving him bottle only at 7pm and nursing and solids at 7, 11, and 3. He keeps waking up 1 hour to 1.5 hours early every morning. Sometimes it seems like it is teething, other times I can't figure it out. Do I need to shorten naps? Any thoughts are appreciated.

jenjam said...

My son is almost 7 weeks and he eats every three hours (6,9,12,3,6,9). I'm confused about the dreamfeed. He's been doing really well at night, I'm just unsure about feeding times at night when it comes to sleeping through the night. Currently I feed him at 6pm, he goes down for bed around 7ish, then I feed him at 9:30, then again at 2:30am, then waketime at 6am. My question is according to babywise my late evening feeding should be 12am, but that wouldn't leave 7 to 8 hours of sleep before I get him up at 6am. What time should my dream feed be? I don't want to leave out any feedings. Would it be ok to feed him at 6 then at 10:30pm for the dreamfeed and then hope he sleeps through the night for 6am wake up. I hope this all makes sense. I guess I'm worried that I will be leaving out a feeding. Any advice would be great. Thank you.

Plowmanators said...

Jennings Family and LEM, I am sorry I missed your questions until now. Please let me know if you still need help.

Plowmanators said...

OverThinker,

I don't necessarily think solids at 7 PM is BEST, it is just what I do (so I guess in a way that means I think it is best right...lol). The book suggests like you do it. My son was so active with such a high metabolism that he needed solisd at 7 PM. It didn't affect my daughter negatively so that is what I did with her also. For some kids if they eat solids that late at night they don't sleep well.

See this post for more on waking early at that age:

5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html

Plowmanators said...

jenjam, make things work for you. The sample schedules in the book are only samples--not one-size fits all. Since you wake at 6 AM, don't do the DF (or late evening feeding) later than 10-11. But I think 9:30 is just fine also.

I think I would do 10 so that 6 is 8 hours later. But know that he might take a while before he is ready to sleep those 7-8 hours straight. He could also be right around the corner :)

If it turns out he can do 7 but not 8 hours, try 11.

becoloradogirl said...

Hi - just found this site and have some questions on schedules for a newborn. My baby is 12 days old and we are just trying to establish a schedule! She's been falling into a pretty good routine so far. I've been nursing every 3 hours during the day, she's pretty alert and enjoys at least a small waketime after each feeding. My question: at night she'll go a 5 hour stretch from her last feeding... and then she'll either go 3 or 4 hours after that. How do I keep the same start time if she does this? Also, because of the 5 hour stretch this only means 7 feedings per day. Should I wake during the night twice to get the 8th in? I am pumping a little in the mornings.

Schedule - 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, 10pm, 3am - then she gets up anywhere from 6-7. Should I just play 'catch up' with the daytime feedings to get back to a 10pm last feeding if she gets up closer to 6am? Do I need to put another feeding in to make 8? We go to the dr to check progress tomorrow, but she's pooping and peeing regularly.

Plowmanators said...

I think I would let her sleep the 5 hours at night, but add a feeding during the day. That will mean you need to feed every 2.5 hours for part of the day. I just wouldn't disrupt good sleep at night unless you had to (like waking at this age after 5 hours). Do this for at least another 3 weeks and see if she can go down to 7 feedings.

See also this post:

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

THE MORRISON'S said...

Hello,
I've been reading your blog for the past 7 months now and have found it so helpful. I decided it was time to post a question. My little boy is almost 7 months old and currently is on the following schedule:

7AM Wake and Nurse

7:30-9AM Wake Time

9AM Nap

10-11AM Wake (He won't sleep longer than 45-1hr and I've let him be, but he won't go back to sleep)

11AM Bottle and Solids

12/12:30PM Nap

2/2:30PM Wake (He usually sleeps 2 hrs for this nap...sometimes 1 1/2 hrs)

3:00 Bottle and Solids

***Sometimes he will take a cat nap at 4:30, but as of late has been skipping it***

6PM Bath and Cuddle time and Read

6:30PM Bottle/Nurse

7PM Bed


I don't know if you have any suggestions as to getting him to take a better AM nap. Also, I'm trying to get him on the family schedule and saw that you did solids at 7pm instead of 3pm I thought that was a possible option for me? I'm not sure though. He seems to be doing ok and is happy, but I don't know if you saw anything that could be preventing me from getting him on a schedule more. Thanks in advance for your help and THANK YOU for this blog...what a blessing.

Amy said...

Valerie,
I'm really having a hard time right now...just frustrated and wondering if I'm making a bigger deal than I need to. Is it ok if my son, who just turned 16 weeks, can't handle being on a 3 1/2 hour routine yet? I've tried for the last 3 days and it just doesn't work because his naps aren't long enough in the afternoon. His last two naps are usually only 45 minutes (unless I can get him back to sleep which I can sometimes), and so there's just too long of a waketime. Then, it seems like he's up for too long and way too tired for his next nap and he screams and screams! I noticed that your daughter was still eating every 3 hours when she was 4 months, so I thought maybe it's ok. Please help me - I'm frustrated and trying to do what's best for my son. I don't know what else to do to make his two middle naps longer! I've tried many many things. Thank you!

Amy

Plowmanators said...

Morrisons, Have you tried a shorter waketime in the morning for him? 2 hours seems like it would be long for most 7 month olds.

He is also young for being on the family's schedule. If he sleeps well at night, I would keep the same solid schedule you have. If he has a rough time making it until the morning, you can try the solids at 6:30 and see how that goes.

THE MORRISON'S said...

I haven't tried a shorter wake time. I guess I could. It just "scares" me I guess because he is such a chronic 45 min napper. He wakes at 7AM and I feel that if I put him down at 8am or 8:30 for his AM nap that he won't make it until his 11AM feeding. Even when I do put him down at 9AM he still gets up at 10 or 9:50, but I still hold off and don't feed him until 11AM. So I guess I'm not strictly following the wake feed sleep process. Do you think that's what's disrupting the routine?
Also, he definitely makes it through the night with solids at 3 and just nursing at 6:30 before bed. However, I've tried the solids at 6 for the past few nights and it seems to be working ok, but he has gotten up screaming the last 2 nights after an hour or 2 of sleep. I think he might be teething, so I put ora jel on last night which seemed to help. I guess I need to do process of elimination maybe? When is a good age to get them on the family schedule? There are some things with BW that just aren't clear and it can be so frusturating sometimes. Thanks so much for your help and suggestions. I'm going to try cutting his wake time down to an hour and a half tomorrow...I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

Plowmanators said...

Amy, it is 100% okay. My kids were both on 3 hour schedules at that age. If his naps aren't long enough, don't stress yourself out by pushing it.

Keep in mind that you can do the combo schedule. If he can make it 3.5 hours between his first two feedings, but then needs 3 and even 2.5 by evening, that is totally fine. See:

Combo Schedule is Okay: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/combo-schedule-is-okay.html

Amy said...

Thank you for your encouragement! After I wrote to you, I just decided to relax and see what happens. He can go 3.5 in the morning (takes a good 2 hour nap) but then needs 3 for the rest of the day because his naps are shorter. It's going really well! I've learned that sometimes you just have to relax and just go with the flow!!

Plowmanators said...

Morrisons, see this post:

Easy Nap Fix: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/easy-nap-fix.html

If it were me, I wouldn't have him on a 4 hour routine if you have to wait that long after he wakes before feeding him. You can wait up to about 30 minutes, but I wouldn't push it more than that.

See this post about the family schedule:

Solids: Aligning Meals with the Family: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/solids-aligning-meals-with-family.html

THE MORRISON'S said...

Thank you so much!!! I've been putting him down for his morning nap at 8:30 instead of 9. He doesn't fall asleep until 9, but boy does that half hour make a HUGE difference. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!! His naps have turned from 45 minutes to 1hr 30min. Everything is going really really well now. Thank you again for your encouragment and advice!!!! Happy New Year!

Plowmanators said...

Amy, I am glad you have seen good improvement! That is a good lesson to learn; one I have to learn often :)

The Devines said...

I posted these two questions under “Newborn”, but I think it best fits under this posting now that I have come across it. Since it hasn’t been answered, I thought I should re-post it.
Our 6 week old is on the following schedule: 
7am, 9:30am, 12:30pm, 3pm, 6pm, 8:30pm, 12am and (roughly) 4am. 
My concern is that he is waking early from his 3pm and 6pm feedings by 30-60 minutes so that sometimes he only sleeps for around 45 minutes. I have considered the 45 minute intruder and decreased his waketime significantly (now 50-60 minutes), but the problem persists. On top of that he is impossible to wake for the next two feedings 8:30pm and 12am. 
Is there something I am doing wrong?
Here is the unfortunate update: It appears as though he is waking up from his nearly ALL his daytime naps within 45 minutes, making most cylces only 2 hours long, sometimes not even. When I go to feed him (as BW suggests as this might be a growth spurt) he doesn't seem to want a full feeding and gets sleepy. My husband has started to take him out for walks in a carrier to stretch out the sleep time, which works (he’ll then take a full feeding), but could potentially become a very inconvenient habit. 
Also, today I want to try to get on your suggested schedule ending at 10pm at night because he is SO sleepy by 8:30. 
I feel like I am trying everything, but have no idea if I am troubleshooting the proper areas. 
Thanks very much and I hope you are enjoying the holidays with your family!

The Devines said...

Hi! So I have an update: Today I fed my son when he woke up after an hour for 3 out of four daytime feeds (a la BW) instead of walking with him to prolong the nap. And he is eating WELL, so maybe it is just a growth spurt after all! So.... now my question for you is this: Once this GS is over, what do I do to get back on a schedule that has him sleep for longer? Today he did 6:15am, 8:15, 10:15, 2:00, 4:00, 7:30(mostly DF) 10:00pm(DF), middle of the night (DF)
I'd like to get back to a combo of 2.5-3.5 hour stretches. Might you have any advice?
Thanks so much, you are doing an amazing thing on this blog!

Plowmanators said...

Morrisons, Thanks for sharing your success! It is always nice to hear how things turn out :) Happy New Year to you also!

Plowmanators said...

Devines,

The first thing I would do is treat this as a growth spurt. If you are nrusing, 6 weeks is when a chemical that helps produce breastmilk decreases, so you often need to nurse more often for a few days to ensure milk supply. It is also a common growth spurt age. So first treat it as feeding problem and fee more often.

Oh...now I read your second question :). See the blog lable "growth spurt" for info on what happens during and after a growth spurt and then let me know if you still have questions about that. (blog lables are on the left side of the page in alphabetical order).

The Devines said...

Thank you so much for this! Posts on GS were very helpful. I am going to continue as you had recommended in a comment, that is to continue the day following a "pattern" rather than trying to get him back on "schedule". He seems happy with that. And I guess I will ride it out and see how long it lasts. If it lasts longer than 2 weeks, I might hit you up for some solutions!
And I just want to clarify two things though:

1) My boy isn't taking in more number of feedings in a day (still 8, including mid. of night) during this GS, just waking up earlier from 4 of his 8 feedings... so THIS is what is determining that this is a GS (aslo that he is 6wks)?

2) Once his GS is over, HE will start to sleep longer again and pressumably resume his 2.5-3.5 hrs routine, and not ME who forces him back on it. Correct?

Sorry to ask for so much clarification... I just want to be sure that I am addressing the proper problem.
Thanks a million for your time!!! :)

The Devines said...

I didn't get an email notification that I posted my lasted comment, so I'm not sure if you got it either... Here's to hoping it gets to you! Thanks :)

Plowmanators said...

1-You probably want to have an additional feeding, at least for a couple of days. Then your milk supply would increase and he shouldn't need more feedings.

2-Once the GS is over, he should start to sleep longer, therefore being back on his normal schedule.

You are welcome!

Plowmanators said...

oh, another thought. Rather than having an additional feeding, you can let him nurse longer than usual if he will. This will also cause more nipple stimulation which will increase milk supply.

Lucie said...

Hi...
I hope you are doing well! I have a question in regard to where to go from here. My son is 20 1/2 weeks (4 1/2 months) and is exclusively bottlefed. We began doing rice cereal 2-3 times a day about 2-3 weeks ago. He is still on a 3 hour schedule and having 4 naps and I think I need to transition down to three naps. I have read all posts but am still a little confused as to how and where to go from here. Do I try and get him onto a 3.5 or 4 hour schedule? He typically naps 1.25 or 1.5 hours-- I wish I could get him to sleep for a full two hours but it usually doesn't happen.
He also doesn't seem to be able to handle 2 hour waketimes.
His schedule right now is:
7am-wake happy/eat (cereal and bottle)
8am- nap
9:30- wake
10- eat/bottle
11- nap
12:30-wake
1- eat
2- nap
3:30- wake
4- eat (cereal and bottle)
5-nap
6:30- wake
7- eat (cereal bottle)
8- TO BED
10-Dream feed

How should I change his schedule to make a smooth transition? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Inge said...

Help!
I am a new mom of a 3month old baby boy, Ilias.
Since he was born we haven't slept more than 3 hours at a time and we are exhausted.
Ilias was diagnosed with reflux when he was 2 weeks old. He suffered with it till about 5 weeks ago. With the reflux the only way he would sleep was in a sling except at night we put him in his crib.
We have him on a schedule of 5 feeds of 180ml. He eats every 4 hours. He eats wel just refuses to sleep. When he falls asleep for a nap he only sleeps about 20 to 45 minutes max. If we take him out of his crib then he is so cranky that all i can do is walk around with him. So we try to leave him in and calm him that way. This usually takes 20 min to an hour.
He only sleeps on his stomach and has already learned to roll over. At night we have to go put him back on his tummy about 5-6 times. He wakes when he rolls over and screams.
This is the schedule we have him on (give or take)
7am feed
playtime
8.30 naptime (takes about 15 to 30 minutes before he sleeps)
11 am feed
playtime
12.30 naptime (takes about 15 to 30 minutes before he sleeps)
3pm feed
playtime
4.30 - 5.30max naptime
6.30 bathtime
7pm feed then bedtime then wakes around 2 or 3 for another feed.

We tried to dreamfeed but he refused to eat. Even if we wake him completely he refuses then wakes up around 2 or 3 to eat.

Any suggestions on what we an do to make the naps beter, the night time beter and how we can lose the night feeding. Because we need some sleep too.

Esther said...

Valerie,

You answered some of my questions a while back, and I first want to say thank you! I have a 16 week old son, and am a first time mom/babywiser. I started him late on Babywise (about 5 weeks ago), but had to go on a two week trip two weeks into BW, which messed everything up. We have been back at it now for about one week. He has never slept through the night. Right now, I am following your sample schedule for Kaitlyn at three months, but one hour later. His schedule is supposed to be this:
8:30 nurse
9:30 nap
11:30 nurse
12:30 nap
2:00 nurse
3:00 nap
5:00 nurse
6:00 nap
7:30 nurse
8:30 bed
10-11ish Dreamfeed
Then he usually wakes up twice in the night, but it doesn't seem like it is always at the same times. (Last night he only woke once!!)

1) One problem we are having is that he seems to be showing sleep signs after only about 30 min. I usually keep him up for about 45-50 minutes. It usually takes him anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes to fall asleep. I have read though that normal wake time for his age is usually 60+. Since he is going to bed 15 minutes before his "scheduled" time, I just tack that time onto his nap. In other words, some of his naps are 2 hours and 15 minutes, and I usually have to wake him up.

2) Another problem is that at this age he should probably be dropping a nap. But I didn't think I should drop a nap until he is sleeping through the night?

3) One other thing to throw into all of this is that since we have been back at his schedule this week, I have started letting him nap on his stomach. I never did before, and he usually woke up in the middle of his nap. I don't know if it is coincidence that he is doing better now or not, but I'm not going to mess with a good thing! I don't really guess you needed to know that, but it just seemed like I should tell you in case it makes a difference :)

Thank you soo much for your help. I really, really appreciate it.

Esther

Esther said...

Oh, I hope all is well with your son!

Thanks again for any advice. It is so kind of you to take the time to help so many people out!

Plowmanators said...

Lucie,

If he isn't ready to go to a 4 hour schedule, don't move him. It sounds like he just isn't ready for a longer schedule.

What I would do (and did for both of mine becaue they weren't ready for 4 hour schedule when they dropped the fourth nap) is just drop the nap at 5. He would then eat two times in a row without a nap in between. This is fine.

It looks like right now he is taking a long nap at 5, so before you drop it, I would shorten it and see how he does. Work it down to a catnap (about 45 minutes).

Once that is dropped, he might need to eat sooner than 7--maybe at 6:30. That is fine. If he will go 30 minutes longer in another part of the day, you can do that to compensate. Otherwise, he will adjust over time and be able to make it longer. Good luck!

Amanda said...

Hi- I'm new to being a mom & to BW. We have a 2 week old son that consistently feeds every 2.5 to 3 hours. I'm trying to figure out a schedule for him and have a question about the nighttime feedings. Do you wake up the baby every 3 hours to ensure he feeds? Or once its bedtime, would you let him sleep until he wakes up to feed?

I'm thinking of doing a 7:30 AM waketime & a 7PM bedtime with feedings at 10:30, 1, 4 & 7pm.

That's only 5 feedings. How would I fit in the other 3? Would I do a dreamfeed at 9:30 or 10? Then would I let him sleep until he wakes?

[Our son was born early, so the doctors were having us wake him up every 3 hours to eat. Now that he's regained his birth weight, they say it's not necessary to be that strict. ]

Any help/advice would be much appreciated!

Plowmanators said...

Inge, there are several posts I would recommend:

Babywise and Reflux: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/bw-and-reflux.html

Sympathy for Reflux : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/11/sympathy-for-reflux.html

Nap Disruptions: Rolling, Standing, Crawling, etc: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nap-disruptions-rolling-standing.html

It sounds like he needs to get used to sleeping in a bed since he has slept in a sling thus far. Give him time to get used to it.

He seems to do well to go from 7-2or 3 without eating. Try to take advantage of that and get your sleep in. If he is sleeping that long and you haven't slept longer than 3 hours since he was born, you might want to go to bed earlier to get some rest. You would be surprised what 4-5 hours straight can do for you. As he gets older and over these reflux symptoms, you will be able to go back to staying up later.

Plowmanators said...

Esther,

1- Your first problem doesn't really look like a problem. That sounds great :)

2-You can certainly drop the nap before he is STTN. If you think he is ready, drop that 6 PM nap. But if he isn't ready, there is no rush.

It really sounds like he is doing quite well overall. It sounds like he is progressing nicely.

Thanks about my son :) He is good, though anxious to get his stitches out now.

Esther said...

Thanks for your reply! I have a couple clarification questions though. When he is acting sleepy (heavy, tired eyes) after 30 minutes, what would you do? Is 30 minutes of waketime acceptable for a 4 month old? When I keep him up 45-50 minutes sometimes he will fall right asleep, and then other times it takes 30+ minutes. Which brings me to my next question, how long is a good amount of time to take to fall asleep? How long would you guess it takes an average baby to get to sleep that is getting an appropriate amount of waketime? And finally, you don't think he is getting too much sleep with four long naps (some 2hr 20min), and that making him not STTN?

I'm sorry for so many questions. You are a blessing!

Thank you!

Plowmanators said...

Amanda,

Until he is 5 weeks old, wake him after 5 hours at night if he hasn't woken on his own. After that, you can let him go until he wakes naturally.

You would definitely do a dreamfeed. Then you would expect another two feedings in the night. You could try a 2.5 hour schedule in the day to get more feedings in to hope for only one feeding in the night. You might have to cluster feed at night (feed every two hours) for a couple of feedings to work it in.

Plowmanators said...

Esther,

30 minutes is probably too short of a wake time for a 4 month old. Does that include your feeding time?

I would keep a log to find his optimal waketime length. See

Optimal Waketime Lengths : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/optimal-waketime-lengths.html

BW Tips and Tricks: Keep a Log: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/tips-and-tricks-keep-log.html

I would say they should be asleep within 10 minutes if waketime was right.

Four months is the age most go down to 3 naps a day rather than four. If he can handle a longer waketime, you can start shortening that fourth nap, working it down until you drop it.

Esther said...

Thanks for the answer. Yeah, that does include feeding time. It seems that he has heavy, tired eyes anywhere between 30 - 45 min.

He is still waking twice a night. I have read that some mothers have less of a milk storage ability, and therefore their babies need to eat more often, because they are getting less at one feeding. I am wondering if this isn't our issue. When he wakes at night, he is hungry. I don't want to let him cry it out if he is hungry. Or is the idea that they will be hungry, but after a few nights their body will regulate, and his night hunger will go away?

Do you think the problem could be with the milk storage thing? He wakes at different times each night, but always twice, plus a dreamfeed.

Thank you!

Plowmanators said...

Esther,

Some women don't have enough of a certain type of breast tissue to make as much milk as the child needs. This seems to become a problem around 4ish months. If you suspect this is the problem, I would definitely see a doctor about it so you know for sure.

lyn said...

My 4 week old breastfed baby is currently on a combo schedule:
5:30
8:30
11:30
2:00
4:30
7:00
10:00
She usually wakes around 2am to feed. I was trying a combo schedule in hopes of waking her more during the day so she would be more tired at night, but it doesn't seem to be working. :)

I'm wondering if I need to adjust to a 3 hour schedule during the day. I typically have to wake her for the 11:30 and 4:30 feeding. And she is fussy from 8-10pm. I'd like her first feeding to be at 5:30 so that when I go back to work I'll be able to nurse before dropping her off at the sitter's. Is this too early for a first feeding? Is this why she's so fussy at night? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!

Christa said...

Hello...and sorry for the novel,
I found your blog a few months ago in an attempt to find answers for my questions (you have got to love google search). Since then I've come back from time to time and read various blogs and have always found the answers I'm looking for. Now, however, I need an answer that is more situational and would like your help in that.
I have an almost 7 month old son who is on a 3-4 hour routine.
What his routine should be:
6:30 AM Wake up, Nurses, then plays
8:00 AM Goes down for his nap
10:00 AM Wake up, nurses, solids, then plays
12:00 PM Goes down for his nap
2:00 PM Wakes up, nurses, solids, then plays.
3:30 PM Goes down for a nap
5:00 PM Wakes up, nurses, eats solids, then plays
7:00 PM Goes down for the night
9:00 PM One final feeding

Okay...so that's the tentative routine. I take him to work with me and work full time, sometimes putting him down later than I want first thing, and sometimes waiting later to feed him (until 5:30PM) because I get busy at work. Other days I do things earlier...it is really flexible, and fortunately so is my child. I'm unmarried and the father has visitation with him every Tuesday night, Thursday night, and Saturday afternoon for 2 hours (he starts his naps at his dad's and usually finishes them at home), so (especially on Saturdays) his routine is often either exact or early (1:00 PM feeding time on Saturday :/).
My son is at that age where, according to BW (which I was introduced to before he was born...and LOVE) he should start dropping the 3rd nap. That's fine, I've been keeping him up later and putting him down just for some "quiet time" and he usually doesn't sleep (unless he's had a busy day and hasn't taken good naps prior to that one...like Sundays, where we wake up early so we can be at church BY 10:00 AM...his usual feeding time, but with a 30 minute or more stretch of waketime before...which wouldn't be a problem but he usually only takes an hour nap...he's a very visual child and gets stimulated very easily...his dad used to watch tv with him until I told him to stop when my son started experiencing just screaming and screaming when we got home until I fed him, which I did earlier than usual to help calm him down)<--rabbit trail.

Throughout your blogs and from what some of the other people are saying, I've been noticing an even greater stretch between feedings and definitely during the night. Right now, I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do. He's been waking up an hour/hour and a half earlier than usual, which is why I've been cutting down on his third nap. But the biggest problem I have is transitioning when I have to keep it so that he is somewhat awake and alert during the 2 hours each visit with his dad. I nurse and feed him before he leaves and so he's been up for an hour usually by the time his dad gets him (his dad plays with him them puts him down for a nap...but sometimes it's over 2 hours). The 4 hour schedule that starts at 8 seems ideal...but I can't risk him waking up earlier on those days and his visit with dad ends at 8 (he has him from 6 - 8 on Tuesday and Thursday nights and from 2 - 4 on Saturdays), so that would be longer than 4 hours.

I guess my biggest question as a nursing mother trying to maintain her supply is: Should I cut out that last feeding at 9? As a nursing mother, can I go from 7 PM to 6:30 AM and maintain my supply (the only reason I feed him at 9)? Will it be a problem if I keep his routine how it is? The only thing I don't like is that he goes from 2 to 5...which is usually when he takes a light nap...but I usually HAVE to make it that time because of his visit with his dad...but is that even a problem. He's been doing great on this schedule (except recently waking early each morning, which is why I shortened the 3rd nap...he didn't go down for his dad once and I was left with a hysterical baby...but it was a Saturday, so he was off anyways...Saturdays he always takes that nap, as well as Sundays because he doesn't nap in the nursery...which I mentioned already), so should I just let well enough alone? It's been somewhat stressful working out his schedule over the past few months, but God's been good about working things out so that I have had the time I needed to reschedule him (he's started the day anywhere from 6:45 to 7:30 at different monthly stages, depending on where I worked and when I needed to be at work). So I would appreciate your advice...I've read a LOT of your blogs and I haven't found a suitable answer because it's a somewhat solitary case. Thank you and I really enjoy your blog! I've even told other mothers about it. :D
Sincerely, Christa

Plowmanators said...

Lyn,

5:30 is pretty early, but your reasoning for doing it is logical. I would feed her then put her right back down without waketime at that time.

You can always try a three hour for a few days and see if it is better for you.

It is really normal to be fussy at that time at that age. I might just put her in a swing or something at that time if you need to. She should get better in several weeks (though I read that 6 weeks is the peak for fussiness).

Kaya's mama said...

Hi there! I am new to this site and tried to post before, but I did not find it anywhere, so I am trying again. I am at the end of my rope trying to figure out a schedule for my almost 10 week old little girl. We are still on a 2 1/2-3 hour schedule with feedings at 630, 9, 12,3, 530 8, df at 1015 and she wakes usually at 330 to feed but only a little bit. She is also a chronic 45 min napper so when I can't get her to sleep more, I just feed her at 2 1/2 hours. She will take it but sometimes is super sleepy or I feel she doesn't take a full feed- the cycle continues of short naps and so-so feeds. :( I don't know if it's because she needs to sleep more or if she can go longer without eating. I am not sure how to get in 7 feedings during the day while keeping a 3 hr schedule. Also, should I keep the 2 1/2 -3 hr combo until she drops the nght feeding? Can you help me figure out a schedule that I can try? I just can't seem to figure it out on my own. Her wake time is anywhere between 615 and 7. I would like her to eat at 9 12 and 3 since that is when she will need to eat when she starts daycare, and her last feed to be at 10-1030 since that's when i go to bed. Any help is greatly appreciated! I hope I can find this comment this time:)

Plowmanators said...

Christa,

Most moms can make it at least 12 hours between feeds at that point in your child's life. A few do need a 5th feeding. If that is the case for you, you can always pump but not wake him to eat. You could then save that milk and send it with his Dad if you wanted so you could wake him later from naps those days.

With the early waking, keep in mind the time change this Sunday (assuming you have it). You will move your clock forward, so his early waking could end up being right on time.

I wouldn't stress out about the schedule. It is a situation where he needs to have those disruptions in order to see his Dad. Since there isn't anything that can be done about it, just relax. It sounds like he is flexible. It sounds like you are doing well for your situation :)

lyn said...

Thanks for your advice! I have gone to a 3 hour schedule for my almost 6 week old breastfed baby:
5:30am
8:30am
11:30am
2:30pm
5:30pm
8:30pm
I do a wake time after all feedings except the 8:30pm. I put her to bed after that, she has been sleeping until her 5:30am feeding too!

Now my question is: is it ok that she wakes up about 30min-1 hour early for her next feeding. Meaning if I feed at 5:30am, have wake time until 6:30am...she wakes up around 7:30-8:00am for her 8:30am feeding. She'll do this all day. I try to leave her to fall back asleep, but she usually doesn't. I've also tried to add wake time before. She'll stay up, although she might be a bit fussy. She'll also take a full feeding, and then stay up for an hour afterward. Is this too much wake time? Thanks again for your help!

Kaya's mama said...

Hi! Just a follow up on the post I am waiting for a reply on. She is now waking at 7-730 due to the time change. Her feeding times don't matter since she will not be starting daycare for 1 1/2 months. My question is also the same as the above post. Because she is waking so much earlier than her feed times, what should I do?
I am very frustrated trying to get her on a schedule.

Plowmanators said...

Kayas Mom,

I would first start by keeping a log of the times that she feeds. Do this for several days. I would probably do a week. Just write down the times that she eats and naps. Then you can see if there is a pattern (see the blog label "logs" at the right).

You can then see patterns. Perhaps between the first and second feeds she can go about 3 hours. So that would be 7:30 and 10:30. Then you see that between the next two, she can only go 2.5 hours. So it would be 1:00. These would be your projected feeding times.

Then you figure out how long her optimal waketime is.

Optimal Waketime Lengths : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/optimal-waketime-lengths.html

So you figure she can stay up for an hour. She feeds at 7:30, that means nap needs to start by 8:30. Do this pattern through the day.

Then be ready to change things if you see something just isn't quite working. Maybe you thought she could go 3 hours in the morning, but it turns out she really needs 2.5 hours. Change it.

See this post about her waking before a feed:

Eat/Wake/Sleep Cycle: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/eatwakesleep-cycle.html

Plowmanators said...

Lyn,

See these two posts:

Eat/Wake/Sleep Cycle: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/eatwakesleep-cycle.html

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html

Kaya's mama said...

Hi there! Thanks for the info. I didn't see an answer to one of my questions. I think she is happy with 6 daytime feedings (including dream feed) and wakes one time at night. Should I be trying to get in a 7th feeding before the dream feed so that she will sleep through the night or will she eventually just drop the nightime feeding? She is ready to sleep at 7 or 730. We were trying the 530 and 8 feeds, but I usually have to wake her for the 800 feed. I also looked at the suggested post but did not find an answer to her early waking from naps. She wakes after 45 minutes from every nap.

Christa said...

Hello,

Thank you for your help earlier. I have started the new routine, and things have been going somewhat well, although we were travelling and it was hard to tell. I do have a question about the last feeding. In BW it says that they will go down to 2 naps, so does that mean his bedtime will be at 8 PM and he won't have a nap (unless he needs one) until then? If I give him a nap will he go to bed and sleep for the allotted time, or should I experiment some? I realize that you did yours one way...but I don't have that luxury, but you are great at helping everyone within their specific situation :) Thanks for the GREAT advice and help. christa

Angela Y. said...

I need help. My 21 week old is suddenly not napping at all. Her schedule is 7:30Eat, 8:30Nap, 10:30E, 11:30N, 1:30E, 2:30N, 4:30E, stay up until 6:30 E then Nap, then 9:30DF. For some reason, she no longer falls asleep for the 8:30 and 2:30 nap. When I put her down, she will fuss a little and then just lay awake for another 1-1.5 hours. Sometimes it is because she has a dirty diaper, and I will put her down right after a change with no stimulation, but she does not fall asleep. I'm at a loss.

jencwu said...

Hi, I need some advise in regards to switching to a 4-hour schedule/family schedule. I know you recommend waiting until the baby puts himself on a 4-hour schedule, but I've been waiting for a long time now and my guy doesn't seem to be doing it on his own. He doesn't seem to be too hungry, at least for the liquid (I bf sometimes, and bottle-feed ebm other times), on his current schedule, though he's always enthusiastic about his solids. He is now 8 months and I just want to put him on the 4 hour schedule.

Right now his schedule is as follows, with some give or take:
7:00-nurse & solids
8:30-nap
10:30-ebm in bottle & solids
12:00-nap
2:00-ebm in bottle
3:30-nap
5:00-nurse & solids
(no nap)
7:30-ebm in bottle
8:00-bedtime

I am looking to the future where after he gets set on the 4-hr schedule, I know he will move to the family schedule. We obviously don't eat dinner at 3, which is when his "dinner" would be on a 4 hr schedule (7-11-3-7). So I'm considering going to 7:30-11:30-3:30-7:30 for now, then it won't be such a big jump to wait for dinner until 5ish, when we eat, when he goes on the family cycle. Should I make this change now along with going to the 4-hr schedule, or do the 7-11-3-7 for a couple weeks, then push it back half an hour?

Also, what about his last nap? Right now he has no nap between the last 2 feedings (5 & 7:30), which works great for spending family time when Daddy gets home and running errands, etc. I don't want to lose this awake time! How would you recommend doing naps in the 4-hr schedule? By the way, he always does GREAT with nighttime sleep. Thanks, and sorry this was so long!

Plowmanators said...

Kaya's Mama,

She should just drop the 7th feeding and go down to 6 feedings.

See this post for early waking:

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html

and see the blog label "45 minute intruder" for more on that topic also.

Plowmanators said...

Christa,

Yes, when you drop the third nap that means after the second nap you don't have sleep until bed. You might have to move bedtime up by 30 minutes or so at that point.

I am a bit confused by your second question. Do you mean to ask if you give him a third nap will he sleep as long as he should? If so, ideally yes. But at his age, as long as he should could be a mere 30 minutes. He could also not need the nap at all, which means he wouldn't sleep.

If you mean something else by that second question, please let me know :)

Kaya's mama said...

Thanks for the advice:) Now my lo is waking 2-3 times at night and staying up for an hour or more at a time. She is not sleeping well during the day or at night. I can't always tell when she is hungry. If I offer breast feeding, she will eat but sometimes not a full feed and still stays awake after. I am not sure what to do with the frequency/number of feedings. I am still df at 8 and 1030

Plowmanators said...

Angela,

Look into allergies, sickness, teething, etc.

Also, she might be ready for a little bit longer waketime at those times. You can try adding just 5 minutse at a time and see if that helps. Be sure to also see this post:

Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html

Plowmanators said...

jencwu,

I usually like to change just one thing at a time. That way if things don't go well, it requires less troubleshooting.

If he eats at 7, sleeps 1.5 hours later (8:30), then he would need to sleep 2.5 hours to make it to 11. There is nap one.

Then he would go to sleep at 12:30 for nap two. Sleep 2.5 hours to make it to 3.

He would then sleep at 4:30. This can be a short nap. You will have to try things out to see how short he can do right now. Good luck!

jencwu said...

Thanks for your reply. The only thing is, there is no way he will nap for 2.5 hours. He has never been a big napper, and at most he will sleep 2 hours, but usually 1.5. When will he be able to drop the 3rd nap? BW says at 6 mos most can drop it or go down to a catnap. Since he's a little behind the game here, what would you suggest?

Plowmanators said...

Kaya's Mama,

Since she isn't sleeping well day or night, I would look into the reason for that. Does she sleep with a pacifier? If so, that might be the culprit. Is there something waking her? This post can help you go through common reasons for trouble with naps:

Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html

At 8 PM, it isn't a dreamfeed. That would be your last feeding of the day and she can have some waketime afterward if she needs it. The 10:30 feeding would be your only DF.

From what you have said, it sounds like the lack of sleeping is a self-soothing issue.

Plowmanators said...

jencwu,

One wise book says 6 months, the rest say 8 months for dropping the third nap. And that number is an average, meaning some drop it earlier and some drop it later. Both of mine were later (Kaitlyn not until 11 months). So drop it when he is ready to and don't worry about it before then.

Lorri said...

Hey Val, its me again! :0)

I have some troubleshooting question, so if you have time, but its not a big worry.

My little Scooter, 11 months on April 1st has all of a sudden decided he likes to stay up. He use to only be able to do an hour at a time of waketime.

Now he does 2 hours and 45mins and a lot of times 3 hours between wake up and 1st nap. And 3 hours sometimes 3 1/2 between 1st nap and second. But because of this, the second nap is running into nighttime waketime.

Schedule:
6:30am nurse
7am solids
9:30 Down for a Nap
11:30am Nurse
12 noon Solids
3pm Down for a Nap
5pm Nurse
6pm Solids
7:30 Bottle of Breastmilk IF he wants it + Bedtime

So right now, my problem is that he is taking good naps!! hehehehe
The second nap going for about 2 hours runs into awake time in order for him to be ready for bed.
I just feel like 8-8:30 is late for a little guy who really likes getting up at 6:30 happy, clapping and talking.

I've tried shortening the wake time to 2.5 from wake up to 1st nap, but then he just plays in bed. And the same for 1st nap to second.

And I'm hesitant on dropping a nap since both are still very good.

Anyone have any ideas?

maggie sheridan said...

Congratulations on baby McKenna! I enjoyed reading about y'all's first week. It makes me excited about more children to come in our lives!
I have a question about the feeding right before bedtime. Our baby boy is almost 8 months old, and I was wondering when we go to 3 meals a day only? And how do you know when it's time? We're still sometimes taking the 3rd nap (only naturally lasts 45 minutes to one hour) and I'm attempting to make his meals match up with our schedule. He's still eating dinner around 4 p.m. and then we feed him before bed time, between 7 and 7:30 p.m. Anyway, just had that question about going to 3 meals a day. Thanks for all you do on this blog!

Plowmanators said...

Lorri,

I would just work to get that second nap earlier. I don't think it should start any later than 2 PM. Kaitlyn's second nap started at 2 PM and she woke in the morning at 7:30. It is possible that you are missing his first window for optimal nap, he is getting a second wind, and then you are catching him the second time around. See also this post:

Dropping the Morning Nap (from 2 to 1 naps): Transition Time : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/10/dropping-morning-nap-from-2-to-1-naps.html

Plowmanators said...

Maggie, some go to three a day as early as 9 months...for me, that is young. See this post for more thoughts:

Dropping the 4th Feeding : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/dropping-4th-feeding.html

the Shipe's said...

Hi, I love your blog! I'm a little confused on the middle of the night feedings and stuff. My son, 9 weeks old, bottle-fed, is on a 3-hr schedule (7, 10, 1, 4, 7, 9:30, 12, then we let him wake naturally which is usually 3:30ish). 2 weeks ago we tried just letting him wake up naturally after 8pm (his bedtime), & he woke 11pm & 3am. But then I was worried he would never drop that 3am feeding because he was already down to 7 feedings, so we decided to "cluster feed". Also he was waking at 5 or 6am, but he is still doing that on this schedule, so I'm letting him CIO (he's down to 5 mins). So, I guess my question is should I stick with what I've got & eventually he'll drop that 3am feeding? or should I go back to letting him wake naturally & he'll still drop that 3am feeding? thanks!

Kaya's mama said...

My lo is 4 months old and I am not sure if she should be extending her schedule. It seems like she can still only do 1 1/2 hours waketime, but still has difficulty with naps. She can sleep 1 1/2-2 hours but with resettling at the 45 minute mark(sometimes takes 15 minutes and I can't do CIO). She also still wakes at least 1 time at night and has a very early wake (530 or 600). I heard that extending her schedule might help with these things, but she is very sensitive to being overtired and I am not sure how much to push her. She is on a 3 hour schedule with feeds at 630 (if we're lucky), 10 if she takes a long nap, 1, 4 and 630, in bed at 730. She takes 3 naps and needs help to get through them, and lately she has been hard to get down for her catnap which has shortened from 45 minutes to 30 minutes if she takes one at all.
I am just wondering
1. Should she be moving to a 4 hour when her awake time and sleep time won't add up to that?
2. If she drops the catnap, that is a really long time for her to be awake and I think she will overtired and wake even earlier in the morning.
3. Any ideas on how to extend it a little bit, and then what would it look like with/without the catnap.
Our days are pretty good, but then things get a little uncertain as we head toward the evening.
Thanks for the help!

the Shipe's said...

hey, I'm so at a loss of what to do. I change my mind about the nighttime schedule almost every week! He's 11 weeks old tomorrow, weighs 12lbs. & is formula fed 5oz each time (7 & 12 he eats 6oz.). He's on a 3-hour schedule during the day (that has been consistent for months now). His schedule is 7, 10, 1, 4, 7, 12 & I've been letting him cry it out trying to drop the 4am feeding. (When he was eating at 4 he hardly ate anything & if i forced him to he wouldn't be hungry at 7). *Should I keep with it? We've been doing this for 4 days & I know it says it takes 3-5 days sometimes longer. I know babywise said they should be getting 7 feedings after they sttn 7-8 hours, but he doesnt seem to need that 4am feeding. *or should I move the dreamfeed (from 12) to 10pm & let him wake naturally & feed him? Even though that means I'll have the middle of the night feeding & he'll just drop it later than babywise says?
2 more things.
*He is waking at 5:30ish (like the book talks about), BUT he isn't talking to himself, he is crying. He has been doing this for few weeks (even with a different schedule). Is this okay too? He cries for about 10mins. sometimes more.
*He is still being swaddled, but he breaks free from it & cries until I reswaddle him. His arm movements are more controlled, but I think they are waking him up. Do you think I should stop swaddling him or keep reswaddling him until he has better control of his arms? I guess I can try not using it & see how it goes.

His naps are going great btw. 2hours (sometimes a little less or more depending on waketime).

Plowmanators said...

Shipe's, first, whatever you decide to do, I would stick with it for a couple of weeks at least to see some result. It definitely takes more than a couple of days to change things usually, and changing it up will only hurt progress.

12 isn't actually a dreamfeed time. That would be a middle of the night feeding. A dreamfeed should happen somewhere between 10-11--11:30 at the latest.

If it were me, I would move the dreamfeed to 10 PM and then see what happens from there.

If he is waking at 5:30 and not in need of anything, there is no problem with him crying for 10 minutes.

You can certainly try not swaddling him, BUT do not stop the swaddle until you get your new schedule down and consistent. You don't want to change too much at a time because you then won't know what is causing any possible problems. Move the dreamfeed to 10 PM, wait a week or two, then try stopping the swaddle if you want to.

Plowmanators said...

Kaya's Mama,

1. it depends on how stressed out you want to be :) How will you react? If it is going to drive you crazy if she is awake really early before a feeding, wait until she can make it closer. If she wakes 30 minutes before, you can wait to feed her (if she will), but just don't cause stress for yourself uncessarily. There is no need to rush to a four hour schedule.

2. I would keep working to have the catnap. Will she sleep somewhere like a swing or something? You could try that for the catnap.

3. In my experience, you can't force the schedule.

Some moms do find that moving to a four hour schedule helps fix napping problems. It does happen. You can always try it and see how it goes. If it doesn't work out, you can defiitely go back.

the Shipe's said...

thank you so much, I really needed some direction! I'll definitely let you know how it goes. By the way, we got a new swaddle blanket that has velcro, it's a miracle blanket. It's similar to the one you reccomend.
So, last night we had decided to go back to the 10pm dreamfeed, he woke at 2:20am & then woke at 5:50 for a few minutes. I was so worried he'd wake up more often, yaye!
Okay, so this might be a stupid question, but I'll ask it. I know it'll probably take him longer to sleep through the night (7-8 hours) naturally, because I changed it up so much, Do you have any idea how long I should expect? (I should just relax & go with the flow, I know, I'm a little neurotic, lol).

Thanks again!

S&J520 said...

I am so relieved to have found this blog. There are so many differing philosophies on how to manage a newborn or young infant in terms of schedule and feeding. By far, BW and info posted on this blog make the most sense to me and are most aligned with what I believe to be the best for our newborn son. I did have a question regarding when is the appropriate time to drop the very late night feeding and allow baby to sleep an extended period (beyond the 3 hour schedule on which our baby boy is on now). He is just turning 4 weeks old and has slept through the night on three occasions but somehow I think it is still too early. Help!

Johanna in MD said...

I wanted to repost my question since my username was displayed strangely. My original post was on 5/23/09 @ 11:58am. I am so relieved to have found this blog. There are so many differing philosophies on how to manage a newborn or young infant in terms of schedule and feeding. By far, BW and info posted on this blog make the most sense to me and are most aligned with what I believe to be the best for our newborn son. I did have a question regarding when is the appropriate time to drop the very late night feeding and allow baby to sleep an extended period (beyond the 3 hour schedule on which our baby boy is on now). He is just turning 4 weeks old and has slept through the night on three occasions but somehow I think it is still too early. Help! One additional point is that he is formula fed and not nursed. Currently, he is taking anywhere between 3.5 to 4.5 (on occasion) oz per feeding.

mgdnight said...

As many have said before...thank you, thank you, thank you for this post! I have read and read and know the answer/advice is there but have not found the answer. I have an almost 8 month old who is on a 4 hour feeding schedule with two naps. Originally he was 7, 11, 3, and 7 for feedings with 7 a.m. waketime and 7 p.m. bedtime. The last three weeks, however, he has been consistently waking at 5:30. It starts out by him talking to himself for about 15 minutes and then quickly escalates to discontent and screaming. He is fine waking up at this time and not eating until 7:00 (and keeping with the same routine) but the 5:30 wake up time does not work well with our family. We've tried going longer at night, but he is so exhausted that by 7:00 he is done after his bottle. He doesn't have a third nap...should we try to build one in, moving back the bedtime and hopefully increasing the waketime? Also...by the time we feed him at 7:00 he is almost so agitated by that point that he won't eat his solids and just prefers his bottle. If we feed him, though, when he wakes up do we stretch him out 5 hours then to the next feeding? Any help would be GREAT!

Sara said...

My daughter is about to turn 5 months this week and we are on a 3.5 hr schedule:
7:30 - nurse
9:15 - nap
11:00 - nurse
1:00 - nap
2:30 - nurse
4:30 - nap
6:00 - nurse
8:00 - nap/bed
9:30 - dreamfeed

So my questions -
1. Should I be trying to cut back one of the naps? She technically takes 4 naps, even though I consider the last nap bedtime since the 9:30 feed she goes right back to sleep. I think she still needs to nurse 5 times but I feel like she is having to take so many naps because we are trying to keep the feed/wake/sleep cycle.
2. Is 2 hours too much waketime at a time?

Plowmanators said...

Shipes, lol, I think most BW moms are neurotic :)

Just go with the flow. Be happy for improvement. So long as you see improvement, I would be happy with it :)

hmm716 said...

Help! I have an almost 7 month old and we've had sleep issues from day 1. He's only ever taken 45 minutes naps, thus rendering it impossible to stick to the babywise routine. He doesn't cry or have troubles falling asleep, he just has trouble staying asleep. Here is what his typical day looks like...

5:15 wake up
6:00 bottle
7:00 solids
7:15 nap
8:00 wake up
10:00 bottle
10:15 nap
11:00 wake up
11:30 solids
1:00 nap
1:45 wake up
2:00 bottle
3:45 nap
4:30 wake up
5:00 solids
6:15 bathtime
6:35 bottle/bedtime routine
7:00 in bed (asleep maybe 15 minutes later)

He's constantly acting tired, rubbing his eyes & yawning. I've tried everything - moving around his wake time, changing bedtime and nothing works. He used to sleep until about 5:45, but now he's given that up for 5:15. He's also started waking up crying in the middle of the night a couple times, which he hasn't done for months. I thought maybe he was teething, but now that its been going on for more than a week, I'm starting to doubt that. Plus, like I said, his naps have always been short. He has on a couple of occasions recently taken an hour or hour and a half nap.

I just really need help! What am I doing wrong? Why won't he sleep longer than 45 minutes? (Sometimes he sleeps even less). I'm having a really hard time getting things done outside of the house because he takes 4 naps a day. Please, any help or insight or suggestions you can give me would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
Heather

Melissa said...

Hi! Thank you so much for your sample schedules. It really helps to see Babywise in action. I have a 3 month old with acid reflux on prevacid so she is slow to progress through the routine as well. Currently here is her routine:

7:00 nurse
8:15 nap
10:00 nurse
11:15 nap
1:00 nurse
2:15 nap
4:00 nurse
5:15 nap (this nap is becoming very short, she sleeps for about 30 minutes)
7:00 nurse
8:00 bed

She will no longer wake for the dreamfeed but wakes around 3:00-4:00 am for a feeding then back to sleep. As I said the last nap of the day is becoming very short as well.

1. Should I try and force the dreamfeed?
2. Should I drop or wean the last nap?
3. Did Kaitlyn go straight from a 3 to 4 hour schedule?
4. When is a good time to try and drop the middle of the night feeding?

Thank you so much for all of your advice. We're lucky to have you!

God bless,
Melissa

Jessica said...

I have a question... I have a 7 month old son, who is showing signs of being ready to move to a 4 hour schedule. Recently, he's been waking up early in the morning- today he tried to get up at 5:30. I don't understand why he is all of a sudden waking up early, when his normal waketime is 7 am. Is he getting too much sleep during the day, thus being ready for the 4 hour schedule and dropping the third nap? Or should I keep the 3rd nap and make his bedtime later? I'm super confused because he started doing this very recently. He's not hungry, because he just wakes up and talks to himself. If I leave him alone, he'll usually go back to sleep, but it can take 45 minutes to an hour! Should I let him do this until 7, and then go and get him if he seems content? Thanks for your help!!

Plowmanators said...

Johanna,

You will want to click on the Babywise Milestones blog label for more specific ages.

You drop the late evening feeding (referred to by me often as the dreamfeed) after your baby has consistently slept through the night from that feeding (typically 10-11 PM) until your desired morning waketime. I always say give it at least two weeks. I always wait a month. That way, you will definitely make it past a growth spurt.

Once you have dropped the dreamfeed, your next step is to extend the schedule. When you do this, you want to be waking baby up for every meal. It is also a good idea to wait at least two weeks after you have dropped the dreamfeed before considering this step.

Plowmanators said...

mgdnight, later bedtimes seldom create later waketimes.

It might be the sun (I posted on this a few days ago). There are also common sleep disruptions for ages5-8 months old. If you go to the index under Sleep (or sleep problems) you will see the post 5-8 month disruptions.

I am not suer what you mean by the last question. Do you mean he is agitated by 7 AM and doesn't eat well? And then you are wondering if you should feed him at 5:30 AM instead? I definitely would not feed at 5:30 AM. I would go in and try to soothe to sleep before I would feed. Feeding will only create a metobolic reason to wake.

Melissa said...

Hi: Still having trouble with schedules. My daughter is on a three hour schedule and was sleeping at night from 8:00pm to 3:00am but now is waking around 1:00am and then again at 5:00am to eat? I thought maybe it was a growth spurt but it has lasted about a week. She is 4 months old so really I want to get her to sleep through the night.

My questions are:
1) Can growth spurts last more than a week?
2) Should I just not feed her at 1:00am and try to get her back to sleep?
3) Should I let her cry it out at night?

Thank you,

Melissa

Johanna in MD said...

Hi - thank you so much for your response. I think I perhaps used the wrong term. The very late night feeding is the middle of the night feeding - this is what I meant. Our baby boy is now 2 months old. I have him on a 3 hour schedule and his last scheduled feeding is the dreamfeed typically occuring between 10:30 and 11:00. However, he is still waking up within 3.5 to 4 hours at night. On rare occasions, he has gone 5 or 6 hours between dreamfeed and next feed. I guess I am trying to understand whether I should expect that he should be sleeping at least 4 to 5 hours after the dreamfeed. I am also utterly exhausted and sometimes cannot function during the day because he has not started to sleep longer at night. If he should be sleeping longer, what can I do to extend that time?

To Jessica, I know in both the BabyWise and Baby Whisperer books, it is normal for babies your son's age to wake at 5:30am and talk to themselves. THe book recommends allowing them to do this and then go in and feed them at your normal time. I am certainly no expert - just sharing what the book communicates.

Plowmanators said...

Sara,

1. No. That last nap is bedtime. She is taking three naps. Now that she is almost six months, she might be ready to start shortening the third nap, but only do so if she needs it.

2. Only if she doesn't sleep well :) See the label "optimal waketime" for more.

Plowmanators said...

Heather, I would wonder how long you have stuck to each thing you have tried. You should give a chanage at least three days before deciding that isn't it. So as you try waketime lengths, give it more than a day to see if it is right.

Also, I would do solids at the same time you do the bottle. He might be snacking since he is eating every two hours sometimes.

Since he is taking short naps, I would try out shorter waketime lengths.

Plowmanators said...

Melissa,

1. yes, try to force the dreamfeed. None of my kids ever woke up for the dreamfeed. McKenna never wakes up for the dreamfeed.

2. If you haven't yet, you can try dropping that nap at around 5

3. No. She started extending to some 3.5 hour intervals first. McKenna is now doing the same thing (though three months earlier than Kaitlyn did!)

4. That is your call. You have to be sure she is ready. I didn't ever try to force it out of Kaitlyn with the reflux issue at play. She dropped it some time between 3-4 months. McKenna is currently eating from one side in the early morning hours every other night. I am not considering forcing it out of her yet, either.

Plowmanators said...

Jessica,

if he is waking up and talking to himself, this is a normal thing to happen. Just leave him and he should start to sleep through again.

You can also go to the index under sleep problems. There is a post titled 5-8 month disruptions.

Plowmanators said...

Melissa,

1-It is impossible to say for sure. I once asked my pedi and he said you can't really put a timeline on it. I think that if you are feeding more in the day, a growth spurt can last anywhere from 3-7 days--but that doesn't mean it definitely won't last beyond that. However, they often get in the habit of waking early after a growth spurt and just need to get used to sleeping through the nap again.

2-You can certainly try that and see how it goes.

3-That is up to you to decide. I haven't ever used CIO at night, but I know many moms who have done it with success. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Johanna, at that age, McKenna still often only slept that long in the night also. He should extend over time. Babywise says some babies don't sleep 7-8 hours until 12 weeks old, so I always suggest you don't worry about it at all until then. In the meantime, try to go to bed earlier and take naps in the day.

Johanna in MD said...

Thank you so much for the reponse. I did see that in the BW book but I think I assumed at his weight he should be able to go longer. To your point, he turns 12 weeks this upcoming Monday. I will not worry unless it goes much longer beyong that timeframe. I should be getting more rest during the day but I have never been able to nap. Thank you again - it is encouraging that I should not be worried about a pattern with him yet.

kelly said...

Hi! I have a napping question. My daughter is a big sleeper like your Kaitlyn. She is 5 months old. I noticed that Kaitlyn dropped her nap between the 4:30 and 6:30 feedings. I was wondering if she dropped this nap on her own or if you helped her. Thanks.

Laura said...

Hello! My baby boy is 6 weeks old and is doing well on a 2.5-3 hr combo schedule. Sometimes he will sleep longer so it turns into a 3.5 hr schedule, and sometimes I think that I keep him up too long (90 min), since he doesn't always show tired cues and seems happily alert until he gets fussy (then I put him down). His wake-up time is 7:45-8:15am, and he wakes once at night to eat.
Questions:
1. His naps are shortening - used to be 2 hrs, now some are 45min-1hr. Sometimes he will go back to sleep w/ pacifier. I think that I just need to shorten waketime?
2. Due to his 8:00am wake-up time, his last feedings of the day are around 8pm and 11pm. I am worried that starting his bedtime routine (feed on side, bath, feed other side, sleep) after the 8pm feeding will be too early - it results in him sleeping around 9pm. But trying to bathe him after the 11pm feeding seems much too late. It would work best for our family to start the last feeding around 9pm and have him in bed by 10pm. Still too late? Not sure how to adjust the schedule. One way would be to let him sleep longer after the 5pm feeding, but I don't want him to sleep too long before bedtime...confused....

Any ideas would be great - thanks so much for all of your caring insights!

Laura said...

Just wanted to add another question - if I do the bath at 9 or 10, do you think that I will have trouble eventually moving the bath earlier? Seems like I will eventually want him to go to bed around 8 (not sure what age?)? Also, I wanted to add that the fact that my son is doing well on the 3-hour schedule has a lot to do with the advice I found on your blog - thank you!

Plowmanators said...

You are welcom Johanna!

Plowmanators said...

Kelly,

What happened is that we ran errands at that time of day. She didn't sleep while we were out and about, so she always just stayed up. I remembered that at that age, Brayden also stopped sleeping for that nap (he did it on his own), so I stopped giving it to her when we were home.

McKenna is still taking that nap, though, and she is one week past four months.

Plowmanators said...

Laura,

1. it is possible he needs a shorter waketime. It is also highly likely that it is a growth spurt. If he continues to wake early, try feeding him as soon as he wakes up for several days.

2. Yes, 10 is too late of a bedtime. I would either bathe him at another point in the day (earlier) or get him up earlier than 8 PM to start the bathing prochess. You could do the bath before you start feeding at all.

3. see number 2 :)

You are welcome!

Laura said...

Thanks for your reply! Since I last wrote, I started thinking that a 10:30/11pm bedtime was too late, so I have been bathing him after his 8 pm feeding and putting him to sleep (usually nursing a little around 9pm). Now he is waking up twice per night. I tried to do a dreamfeed around 11 or 12, but either he wouldn't wake up for it, or he would still wake twice per night. I would love to go back to waking once per night, but can't figure out how to get there!

He is on a pretty good 3 hr eat/awake/sleep schedule during the day. Previously, I was bathing him between 9:30-10:30pm, then feeding him and putting him to sleep. He would wake once per night to eat. He's 8 weeks old and doesn't really cluster feed - if I feed him any less than 2.5hrs apart, he'll eat poorly. Any advice?

Plowmanators said...

Laura, give it time. If he won't cluster feed and the dreamfeed doesn't help, just give it time. As he gets older, he will get there (if he isn't already).

Stephanie said...

I cannot tell you how excited I have been reading your blog! It has encouraged me so much and answered a ton of questions. I followed BW loosely with my 3.5 year old and she is an amazing sleeper. My son will be 3 weeks on Tuesday and I am so struggling! He does NOT wake up after feeds (breastfed) and if he does, will absolutely will not sleep until the next feed. I have tried only keeping him up 5-15 min. so he is not overtired but it does not work. He does not begin to yawn during these awake times until about 1.5 hour of awake time. That just seems too long to me?? I also have been rocking him until drowsy and then putting him down. He is super gassy and wakes out of deep sleep several times during his nap and nightime sleep with a high pitched scream. Not sure what to do about that either. I have been using gas drops every feed, using a wedge, nursing upright and burping well. I am trying him on his stomach right now for nap and he has sleep uninterrupted but I am scared to do that at night. Any help would be so appreciated!
Stephanie

J.A.W.S said...

Our son is 8 months old. I have a few questions about his schedule. As of today, this is it:
6:30-7am- wake nurse and breakfast
9-9:30am- nap
11-11:30am- wake nurse and lunch
1-1:30pm- nap
3-3:30pm- wake nurse and dinner
5-5:30pm- 45-60 minute nap
7:30-8pm- nurse and bed.
Here are my questions:
1. Is 3pm too early for supper? Should this be a nurse only time and wait to give dinner at 7pm? He rarely gets fussy for a meal and has easily stretched for 5 hours in between. When can his mealtimes line up with ours (7 am, 11-12pm, 5-6pm) and how will this fit in with his naps?
2. He rarely sleeps straight through a nap anymore. He usually wakes after 45-60 minutes. Sometimes he is dirty, other times he is simply awake. I comfort him and put him back down. He cries for 30 minutes or so. Sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes he doesn't. Is this normal? What can we do to help him nap better?
Thank you for any advice you can give. We appreciate it!

Plowmanators said...

Stephanie,

Yawning is not a reliable sleep cue for most babies. Since he doesn't yawn until 1.5 hours, I would forget about it for him. For a 3 week old (now 4 or 5 week old), shoot for 30-60 minutes. He will likely be around 45.

As he gets older, he will be able to stay up longer and more often. See "waketime" or "newborn" blog labels for more on that.

You might try gripe water for the gas. Also, have you considered reflux?

Plowmanators said...

JAWS,

1. It depends on him. The way you are doing it is the way BW suggests doing it. If he makes it to his morning waketime just fine with dinner at that time, then there is no problem. Some kids will do better with it at that time and others better with it at the 7ish hour.

2. See this post:

6 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html

Bergon Family said...

Hi Valerie-
Thanks for getting back to me about my 8 week old. I did use the swing to help during her 4th nap (5pmish). Now Madeleine is almost 4 months and is really putting on weight and napping well into the day. Two questions: She is not yet sleeping through the night. Around 3 months, I dropped the dreamfeed because I could hardly get her to eat, she just wanted to sleep. I also noticed that regardless of the dreamfeed, she was waking around 3-4am. It didn't seem worth it to me to wake her up at 10 when she was going to wake at 3-4am without the dreamfeed. So now I feed her around 7:15-7:40 and keep her up until 8ish then she goes to bed. She is waking at 1-2am now and then I have to wake her to feed her at 7am. What do you suggest to get her to sleep from 8pm-5am? Do you suggest I go back to the dreamfeed? My goal is to put her to bed at 8 and have her sleep until 7am. If I need to reinstate the dreamfeed, then that is what I will do.
My second question is regarding dropping the fourth nap. I read your post about babies dropping it near her age, but how does that affect her ability to sleep through the night?
Thanks- still hoping to get her sleeping longer during night hours.
-Lauren

Plowmanators said...

There is a good chance the dreamfeed will help her STTN...but she is almost at the age to drop it. If it were me, I would try out the dreamfeed for a week or so to see if it helped.

If she is ready for three naps instead of four, it shouldn't have any negative effect on her night sleep. It should only help--or do nothing :)

Rach said...

Hi There, glad to see you are still around. I wrote to you a couple times with my first and now my second is 3 weeks old - I'm back!
I have a question/need advice about his routine please. I'm currently feeding on a 2.5 - 3 hourly routine, all going very well he feeds at, 7am, 9.30am, 12noon, 3pm, 5.30pm, 8, 10.30. He then wakes at 1am for a feed (taking it up to 8 feeds) then again around 4am before we start the day again at 7am. Last night I let him sleep from 8pm and he woke at 11.30, then again at 3am and again 5.45am! I just can't seem to get him sleeping past 3.5hours at night and wondering how I can try to get him to do a 4 or even a 4.5 hour stint... am I dreaming? Is he too young for this at 3 weeks of age. Ultimately I would like to give him a dream feed at 10.30 then have him sleep till 2am then up at 6.30am! Am I asking too much of him?

Rach said...

Hi val,
I wrote the post above about 10 days ago... Don't bother replying to it... My now 4.2 week old son is going all over the place. I think he may have his days and nights confused... yesterday I had to wake him for nearly all his feeds and struggled to get any awake time from him, then last night he woke every two hours for a feed (to the minute) and was up from 4am for 3 hours! AARRGGHH!! He also cluster feeds from around the 4am mark... any advice an swapping his days and nights around or will it just happen naturally (I really struggle keeping him awake during the day - I also have an 19 mth old who screams and tries to play with him.. that still doesn't do the job!)... I was trying to find a thread that spoke about new borns confusion between days and nights - can you point me in the right direction!!!!???? Thanks Rach

Plowmanators said...

Rach, I hope it is worked out by now. Following the EWS cycle is supposed to fix day/night confusion--but you need wake time. See "adding waketim to your newborn's day" for tips on that.

T, C, and Little C said...

I can't tell you enough how happy I am that my husband found your blog!! I have been addicted to it for days now, trying to get through the mounds of helpful information. I have been following BW since my daughter (4.5 mos) was born. It has been a struggle to say the least and it continues to be.

I won't go through it all but will try to give you a quick run down and I would love to hear any advice you might have for me.

It took a while, but Baby had finally gotten to a point where she was napping well. She would wake up through a transition, but then whimper herself back to sleep. GREAT...I thought. However, a couple weeks ago she went through a growth spurt...I could tell because she was waking early from naps and eating so much...I added feedings for almost 2 weeks....since then she has had less than a handful of naps that she has slept well. She usually wakes up through the transition and now just cries instead of going back to sleep. I have tries consoling her, but that just wakes her up more and she wants to laugh and play. If I let her cry, she cries until I go in to get her to nurse. Then her naps are shot and it is SO hard for me to let her cry and not go in there. The only nap that goes well (usually) is her morning nap. I nurse her at 8:00 and she is usually down by 9 or earlier and sleeps until I wake her at 11 to nurse. She sleeps in her swing for this nap and has for about 2 months because of her reflux. Since she nurses and goes right back to sleep, I would rather her not be completely flat because it tends to bother her too much. How do I get her to sleep well at nap time?? I am very diligent about watching for her sleepy signs and putting her down when she appears tired. She either doesn't cry at all or cries just a little when I put her down then falls asleep. I am at a loss as to how to get her over the transition phase now. She does the same thing at night too...when she transitions she wakes up fully and then cries. She has NEVER STTN. Right now she is sleeping 6-7 hours at best...usually closer to 6 sometimes 5.5 Our routine is:
8:00- nurse
9:00- nap (in swing)
11:00- nurse
12:15- nap (in crib)
2:00- nurse
3:15- nap (in crib)
5:00- nurse
7:30- bottle with Daddy then straight to bed

Typically she will wake up anywhere from 1:30-3:00 to nurse and then again 4:30-6:00 depending (after the middle of the night nursing she goes back to the 3 hr.)

I am at a loss as to 1) how to get her through that transition in her sleep so she can get quality naps again and 2) how do I get her to sleep longer durations at night? I can't believe the amount of people who have said their babies are sleeping through...

Sorry to have written so much....I am really trying not to give up and appreciate your help.

AnnDee said...

Hi! Thanks for your sample schedules. I feel so new at all of this! (I guess cause I am! :) Anyways, my son is almost 8 months old, and isn't a great day-sleeper. I was looking at your schedules for this month and notices how long your babies slept. . . when you say that they nap at 8:45 and then nurse at 11:00 does that mean that they slept clear until that time? Just wondering if the reason my son is so cranky these past few weeks is because he's not getting enough sleep.

Plowmanators said...

T, C, and Little C,

I think that unfortunately there are circumstances that are going to make things take longer for you. But hopefully that will give you comfort and patience to hang in there.

First, around 19-22 weeks (gestational age) is a really hard time for babies. See label "wonder weeks" for more on that.

Second, reflux babies take longer to reach milestones. See the blog label "reflux" for lots on that (my first daughter had that).

The good news is that at some point, the reflux will become less of an issue and she will start to reach those milestones you are hoping for. I know it is hard to have them not STTN or not napping well. But if you compare her to what other non-BW reflux babies are doing, you will feel really good about things.

You have a good sign:: She goes down well for naps. Once her pain is better, she should be able to make it through the nap. I would start her in her bed then move her to the swing at transitions.

Be sure to read the posts under "reflux" and hang in there!

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