Tuesday, September 16, 2008

Chronic 45 Minute Naps

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Despite the best efforts of moms, some babies consistently take the 45 minute nap for an extended period of time. I often get questions from moms asking what to do about this. My advice is to keep trying to fix it but try to relax and accept the way things are. Brayden took a 45 minute nap until he was 6 months old, when he suddenly started taking 2 hour naps. I have many theories as to why, and those are the items I list in my troubleshooting naps post and 45 minute intruder post (see Naps: Troubleshooting--Revised and Updated and 45 Minute Intruder). Another important post to be familiar with is Optimal Waketime Lengths.

I have a friend, Raegan, whose baby took a 45 minute nap until she was about 13 months old. This is a woman who I would without hesitation say understands the foundational principles of Babywise/Growing Kids. I met Raegan in an online Babywise group, and she always gives excellent advice to other moms. She knows what she is doing. She did everything she could, so I thought she would be a good person to write a guest article for this blog. This article outlines her experience and her advice for those facing a similar situation. My thanks to her for writing this post.

From Raegan:

I think every Babywise mom at one point or another deals with the 45 minute intruder. It’s a phase…it’ll pass…it’s temporary, right? For most, yes! You keep tweaking you schedule, trying new things, and then they “get it.”

The 45-minute intruder started early for us-- at one month. She’d sleep for 30-45 minutes, cry for 10, fall asleep 10, and repeat until it was time to eat. At 2 months she stopped going back to sleep after she woke. We tried adjusting my diet, working with less wake time (even as little as 20 minutes), more wake time, timing to the minute, sleepy cues, temperature adjustments, the swing, the bouncy seat, solids (at 4 months), burping, patting, shushing, propping the mattress, gas drops, baths to calm and soothe, Tylenol (she started teething at 2 months, first tooth at 3 months), cry it out, cry it out, and cry it out. I was careful about over-stimulation. I had a great nap routine down. I asked everyone Babywise I knew for help. I got a contact mom. I was assured from most everyone that the 45-minute intruder was normal and I’d see a huge change by 5-6 months old. In the meantime, I kept wake time to the minimum average that everyone else seemed to have for their child of the same age. Since nothing else worked, I just stuck to cry it out as my method, put on some praise music and let her cry for 45 minutes each nap cycle. It was miserable.

Things would get better for a few days, then back to the 45-minute intruder for weeks. At 5 months, someone recommended that I try extending wake time again by trying 10 minutes of a very quiet activity before naps, like a walk or rocking. Again, it helped for a few days. At 6.5 months (what everyone assured me was the “golden time” when she’s definitely “get it”) I tried everything that I had tried before, plus moving to a 3.5 hour routine, just keeping her in bed for 1.5 hours, etc. That’s what I ended up doing 9 times out of 10, for lack of knowing what else to do, and needing time to get things accomplished around the house. The 6 month “phase” had been described in Babywise II and it stated that there may be “crying involved.” No kidding. :) I kept thinking there was something that I’d missed.

There were bumps in the road along the way, for sure. There were normal disruptions like rolling, crawling, and pulling up. At 7 months my contact mom recommended going in at 15, then 20, then 25 minutes (etc) until the 2-hour mark was reached after she’d woken from a nap. I was to go in, use my stern mommy voice, and tell her nap time wasn’t over. I would lay her back down without picking her up and holding her, and walk out of the room, hoping she gets the hint. :) It worked for 4 days.

Along the way there were so many questions: how can I move to a 3.5 or 4 hour schedule when she’ll never sleep that long? And then naps conflict with eating times! Will not doing an eat/wake/sleep mess with her nighttime sleep? And my biggest question…Will she ever get it?
By 9 months she still cried going down for naps and waking up from naps. By 9.5 months we’d finally hit a beautiful milestone that most babies hit much earlier. She was waking up happy, even after 45 minutes. So I took it from there. Enough was enough for me. I’d given it 9 months of trying, and finally she was waking happy. I’d given my best effort and I know that from the bottom of my heart. I had tried everything I knew, asked everyone I knew, and prayed for wisdom. I’d cried all I was going to cry about this.

You see, I had to realize that in my life I have to “do all I can do”, seek wisdom from others and the Lord, pray about it (and I’ll admit that sometimes my praying felt like begging), and take action where I can. But we are raising individuals and sometimes we just won’t understand why things work the way they do. I am a “x + y = z” kind of person. You do ______ and ________ happens. But motherhood is more spontaneous and needs more flexibility than that. Each child is different and wonderful. When I learned that she wasn’t changing (yet J) than I realized that I had to change. I was feeling defeated, like she was a failure and I was a failure. When napping became an issue that didn’t resolve, I thought “How can I tell others about the success of Babywise if I can’t even get my own kid to nap???” I had up and down days. Mostly I just wanted to see the “fruit of my labor” and for her to take a good nap. I felt discouraged when I knew other moms that didn’t do BW still had kids that napped 2-3 hours AND slept at night. Granted, my little girl slept through the night months earlier than others, but I had worked so hard!! (That’s me whining.)

So I decide that if 45 minutes was all she needed, that was fine. I’d given her all the tools and now it was time to move on to bigger issues. We moved to a 3.5-hour schedule, then a combo, then 4 hour as she needed. I stopped stressing about naps and moved on to character and training in other areas. We did extra independent playtime, extra blanket time, a regular bedtime, and continued to keep a good routine. When she took a longer nap, I was grateful. But I’m confident that the Lord knows what she needs better than I do, so I lean on Him.

Here’s what I learned as the mother of a chronic 45 minute napper:



  • Don’t give up. Try everything! At the end of it, you won’t have the “maybe I should have…” thoughts. I will say that I know my child better than 90% of the moms I know (and that 10% is only other Babywise moms) because of the problem solving and the listening to the cries and thinking before I responded.
  • Ask for wisdom. Go to someone who has been there. I’ve learned so many random things not related to my original question by asking. Don’t be afraid to ask…it’s how YOU “get there.”
  • A baby that naps only 45 minutes may need to keep the 3rd and 4th nap longer than other BW babies. Go with what they need.
  • Sleep/wake/eat cycles are important, but not the “end all.” Do what you can to get there but don’t worry about night sleep when you don’t. Nap issues never messed with her night sleep.
  • Routine makes the difference. My 45 minute napper was still the most well-behaved, most complimented baby of all my friends.
  • Naps and sleep are just the start to building a strong foundation.
  • Use an IPOD when necessary to drown out crying and save your sanity. As long as you know they are safe, it won’t hurt you and can give you some peace.
  • Things are 10x worse when you are tired or have listened to your baby cry what seems like all day. Take a break, get a babysitter, or TURN OFF THE MONITOR.
  • Don’t be afraid to CIO. When she wakes up now, I either wait until she “gets a happy heart” or goes back to sleep. Sometimes if she’s happy playing, I’ll leave her a little longer. She’s learning to be content without me to entertain her.
  • She still cries sometimes when going down for a nap. I’ve come to the conclusion that after 15 months of a strict routine, that it’s not me. HUGE REVELATION! It’s what she needs to help her wind down. She’ll stop doing that eventually, but it’s not a mark of my failure.
  • When she went down to 2 naps and still only napped 45 minutes, I chose naptimes that worked for me, but were the same time every day.
  • Be consistent in other areas. Given them and you the extra downtime. If they won’t nap longer, get your sanity back with more independent play, blanket time, etc. It’s harder at first but it pays off in the end.
Want to know more? See Raegan's update: Chronic 45 Minute Naps: One Year Later

Related Posts:
Reader Advice
  • Lisima said...
    I just wanted to let all the moms who suffer from this know what I am doing today with my chrinic 45 min napper. Instead of shortening his waketime (he was already being put down at 40 mins) what I did was I took his wake time activities down to the bare minimum of just talking, singing, flirting, the very basics (he is only 2 mos) and then I put him down at the same time or when I was getting good sleep cues, which are different with every child. Well ladies, with the exception of a 3 minute cry at about an hour into his nap he slept the whole time! 2 full hours. Of course that was just the morning nap so far but I think I will carry this on for today and then gradually see what type of activities he can and can't handle as the days go by. Just because I know most of you are desperately looking for answers I thought I'd let you know even thought I am just starting this new experiment today. I am also keeping a chart on excel of his activities waketime and sleep patterns so that I can remember what works and what doesn't. This morning he had 54 mins wake time and for the 10:00 cycle he only had a 40 min wake time. I put him down because of his cues even though I thought it was goind to be too early. I hope this will help some of you and just know that you are not alone.
    September 18, 2008 8:49 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Lisima, good tips and I am glad you are finding success!
    September 22, 2008 3:27 PM
Reader Comments/Thank Yous:
  • Christie said...
    This post is amazing! I definitely feel that God has used you both in this post to speak directly to me and other moms that are dealing with nap issues!!! Sometimes I get so overwhelmed in the "perfection" that scheduling sometimes draws me to seek, that I forget that the Lord know what she needs more than I, as Raegan put it. Thank you both!!
    September 16, 2008 10:58 AM
  • The Traveling Turtle said...
    Thank you so much! This post was just what I needed to read. At 6 1/2 months...we have been dealing with a 45-60 minute napper for almost a month now and I was starting to feel like it was something I had done. Our LO wakes up happy and then plays in her crib alone for quite some time, content as can be. So now I just need to stop beating myself up over it. Thank you again! What a fantastic post!
    September 16, 2008 11:23 AM
  • Lorri said...
    I needed this today. My husband made me pack up all my books last night and took them to his office today. I've searched everything trying to see if there was SOMETHING I had missed.Someone even told me that it was because he was still on a 3 hour routine and I just needed to switch him to a 4 hour-the day I tried to keep him up for more than an hour and 15 minutes was the day I thought I was going to die-he was unhappy, I was unhappy and dad was mad. I still have trouble because he stays up for an hour, sleeps 45 is up happy-but only for an hour and then sleeps another 45 until nursing time again. The up down has not been fun but this post gives me confidence that I have done all I can and things do get better-even if its later rather than sooner.
    September 16, 2008 11:23 AM
  • The Traveling Turtle said...
    Thank you again. I just read this blog over and over and am so happy it was out here. I am so happy to have found this site. with all the crazy, negative stuff out there about BW, it is nice to know there is a place we can ask questions and give encouragement to others! thanks again!
    September 16, 2008 12:04 PM
  • melissa said...
    What a great post. After 2 BW babies, I found nothing more frustrating than 45 minutes naps. I thought I did something worng too. But, I read in the Baby Whisperer in tandem with BW and Hogg talks about how some babies only need 45 minutes. What a revelation! My friend is due with her first baby girl in 2 weeks. I am jealous of how lucky she is to have resources like this blog to help her. I had nothing! :)
    September 17, 2008 6:32 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Melissa, I am jealous too! lol
    September 22, 2008 3:20 PM
  • Susanna said...
    Thank you for letting me know my child is normal. I've struggled with 45 minute naps since birth and we hit the 5-6 month mark 3 months ago and not much has changed! I decided to come to terms with my son not needing more than 45 minutes for a nap and I am truly blessed that he has been sleeping through the night forever. I am also keeping the third nap at 8 months since he doesn't take long naps during the day. How did you do the 4 hour schedule? My son is only eating 4 times a day; I'm just stretching him as best I can to go 3.5/4 hours in b/w meals. He just isn't interested in eating sooner....THANK YOU! This was such a pertinent blog to my situation!
    September 17, 2008 8:07 AM
  • Lisima said...
    Thanks for this post. Although my boy is only 2.5 mos. old I feel like it has been forever since he has napped for the full nap time. I will say that it feels somewhat discouraging to know that this "phase" could last for months to come. I have tried everything that I could think of from burping to darkening the room to CIO, etc. but nothing seems to work. As far as CIO goes I think it is a fine line b/w being mean and disciplining him. I just feel so bad sometimes. I guess it will be better once he starts to wake happy and not cry so much. Its funny because just today I was praying and really asked God to take this issue into his hands and to guide me with wisdom in knowing what to do each time he wakes. Please continue to give us tips when you come across them to help us out. Thanks for this blog and all your help! PS. Where is Gary Ezzo when you need him, huh? Looks like BW needs a revised edition with a chapter on "the 45 min chronic napper." : ) God Bless!
    September 17, 2008 12:12 PM
Reader Questions:
  • Jaclyn said...
    Wow, what a blessing, and an answer to prayer! I was just sitting at my computer trying to distract myself from my crying, no screaming baby, when I came to your post! My 11 month old baby girl has never been a consistent napper. We've had consistent naptimes, but she's never been one to sleep a long time, until recently. However, there's always problems, it seems. Always crying when I put her down. Sleeping for only one of her two naps during the day, screaming for the whole naptime, etc. I felt as though I wanted to scream and pull my hair out. I really appreciate knowing that someone else deals with nap issues, and that it's okay to not be "perfect" according to the book. I do have a question though. My daughter seems to do the screaming and refusal to sleep thing primarily when I put her to bed, and not so much when my husband does it. Attachment anxiety? Babywise doesn't talk about that,that I can recall. Any advice? Thanks again for your post, and keep up the blessed work!Jaci
    September 16, 2008 11:56 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Jaclyn, I would watch your husband put her to bed and see what the difference is. I would then try to replicate the way he does it. If the only perceivable difference is the person, then it might be separation anxiety. If it is separation anxiety, it should pass.
    September 22, 2008 3:18 PM
  • Kate and Robbie said...
    Ditto to all comments! This is just the post I needed too! Ive been racking my brain trying to figure out why my 5 month old "just wont get it". So, one question though, when a baby only naps 45 minutes, only has about an hour of awake time before getting pretty cranky (and i don't want to get him over tired or overstimulated), what do I do to keep him on a decent 3 hour routine? What do I do for filler time? Or do I go to a 2.5 hour schedule...but isn't that for like newborns?? Help me understand!
    September 16, 2008 12:06 PM
  • Plowmanators said...
    Kate, check out these posts:Waketime When Baby Wakes Early : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/waketime-when-baby-wakes-early.html Waketime When They Wake Early: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/waketime-when-they-wake-early.html
    September 22, 2008 3:20 PM
  • bethers21 said...
    Thanks, Raegan!! Your wisdom is truly helpful as always. I can't imagine the emotions of going through that for so long. What did you do when Charis woke up? Did you leave her in bed for a certain length of time? This is definitely a post that I'll read over and over again.
    September 16, 2008 1:41 PM
    Raegan said...
    I tried a few different things first, but here's what I ended up doing. Try different things, but see what works best for your baby.To keep on a decent 3 hour schedule, I did wake time (45 minutes, then one hour as she got older, etc etc) then nap (45 min). That was only an hour and half, so I'd let her cry for a while, try to go in and soothe, then leave, etc. Eventually, when I figured out that going in tended to make things worse, I just left her until the 3 hour mark. That way I got my needed break, and I thought hopefully she'd eventually "get it." The swing made it worse for her, so her best option was bed. :) Yes, there were many many many days where she cried for the next 45 minutes until I got her up. :) It passes, and you have to see how much you can take. It does get a LOT better once they reach 6 months. I couldn't adjust the waketime too much even though she'd already been up 45 minutes, since it interfered with eating. Do the best you can.Most days I left her for 30-45 minutes, once I had exhausted my list of things I could try. :)Raegan
    September 16, 2008 5:35 PM
    Raegan said...
    Oh, and if she was "happy" I'd leave her longer. :) Just to make it to 3 hours. :)
    September 16, 2008 5:37 PM
  • bethers21 said...
    Raegan, when did you put Charis back down or determine waketime? Say you left her in her crib for 1 hour and her waketime is 1 hour.
    September 17, 2008 12:30 PM
    Raegan said...
    I started her official "waketime" when I got her out of her crib. Sometimes I would adjust it by 15 minutes, but I tried counting time in the crib and not counting it, and it didn't seem to make a difference at all. If I left her in the crib one hour, then I'd get her up, feed her (taking about 30 minutes) then I'd keep her up either another 15-30. I did find that as she got older and was waking happy, I could go in and get her and follow more of an eating schedule and just pick the nap times. So no matter how long she napped, naps were at ___ and ___ time. But that was when she was 9 months, I believe.
    September 17, 2008 2:02 PM
  • bethers21 said...
    Raegan, sorry for another question but I just want to make sure I understand. So, you would leave her in her crib for her "desired" naptime, say 2 hours. Then, you would get her up, feed, and then restart waketime once she got a little older?
    September 18, 2008 6:37 PM
    Raegan said...
    Yup! I usually kept her in the crib 1.5 hours.
    September 20, 2008 2:15 PM
  • Rebecca said...
    Thank you for this post. This was so helpful. I am struggling terribly to get my son on a consistent schedule. I used to be able to count on him eating the same time everyday at least, but lately since he may or may not take a full nap, he gets cranky and wants to eat early. I know I have not lived by all the BW principles, so that might be part of my problem. I don't know how to have the same start time every day. Sometimes he wakes up early and sometimes he wakes later. Frankly I need all the sleep I can get and I do not like waking him to keep a start time. He was going until 6, but now he wakes at 5. I have tried to let him CIO, but since his last feeding was at 8 p.m. the night before, he is ready to eat. (At least this is what he is doing THIS week.) I have tried the dream feed off and on about 9:30, but he barely wakes. On top of it all, I think he would eat more before bed, but I don't feel like I have enough to give him and he won't take a bottle. He doesn't take a nap in every eat, wake, sleep cycle. I feel that I can only offer him to lay down, but I can't make him fall asleep or stay asleep. (Thanks to this blog today, I feel a bit better about it.) How can I get him on a more predictable schedule? Any help would be appreciated.
    September 17, 2008 3:36 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Rebecca, you didn't say how old he is...see this post for help with a consistent schedule:Getting a Consistent Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/getting-consistent-schedule.html
    September 22, 2008 3:26 PM
  • Abby's Mom said...
    Wow, I needed this post a long time ago. My 9 month old has been a short napper since she was 6 weeks old. Now that she is down to 2 naps it can make some days very challenging. We have tried EVERYTHING to get her to sleep longer and nothing works. Every now and then she will take a long nap (long for us in 1.5 hours). However, nothing has changed when these longer stretches happen, so I am not sure why sometimes she will sleep longer. Raegan - Just wondering if it has gotten any better now that she is 15 months? Also, wondering what your schedule with her looks like? I know you said you put her down at set times. What time does she get up, nap and go to bed?
    September 18, 2008 10:25 AM
    Raegan said...
    She did a miraculous turn around around 13 months. She started napping at least an hour and 15 minutes, but most days an hour and a half or more. It is sheer bliss! Her naptimes at 13 months were 9:30 and 1:30/2:00. Then at 14 months she needed a longer waketime, so we changed it to 10:00 and 2:30. Now we are at a transition again, and naps are at 10:00 and 3:00. I tried both waking her after an hour in the AM and just letting her sleep. Either way she won't fall asleep until 3:30ish and I wake her by 4:30 at the latest, depending on how good her nap was earlier. Her bedtime is IN BED by 8:00. When we go down to one nap, I have a feeling we'll have to have a 7:30 bedtime. She gets up in the AM at 7:00. I usually have to wake her in the AM. I'm hoping that once we go to one nap she'll take at least a 2 hour nap. (pretty pretty please) :)I'm so glad we kept with a good consistant schedule.
    September 18, 2008 5:42 PM

80 comments:

The Harts said...

My 3 month old is a short napper...but only when he's in his crib!

I have found (through desperation) that he will consistently take naps for 1.5 to 2 hours if I put him in his vibrating bouncer. I know, I KNOW!

Here is how I am handling the situation currently :)... I start out by putting him down in the crib (unless I am completely desperate and he is overtired - then it's straight to the bouncer) I give him 15 minutes to CIO, I go in and reassure him and then give him another 15 minutes to settle. If after 30 minutes he still hasn't settled, I transfer him to the bouncer where I know he'll sleep. Most of the time he'll get to sleep on his own in the crib, but will only sleep for 45 minutes.

So the question is this: is it better for him to get the sleep that I know he needs in his bouncer, or should I just tough it out and leave him in his crib every time, knowing that he will only get 45 minutes? ...and pray that he will eventually "get there."

I have no troubles (to date) with getting him to sleep in his crib at night.

Any advice is appreciated. BTW, I am a first-time Mom and LOVE the blog..THANK YOU!!

Plowmanators said...

Harts, I apologize--I was cleaning up comments on this page and just saw your comment! I hope you have things figured out by now, but if not, please let me know.

susanne said...

I thought I would leave what I did this week to prevent my son from taking 45 minute naps. My son will be 8 weeks old tomorrow. Around 6 weeks old he started to take 40-50 minute naps (sometimes even shorter). He would wake up after 40 minutes crying, well really screaming. I thought it was a hunger thing at first, but when I offered him a feeding he did not take as a full feeding. We were using the Cry-It-Out method for his night time sleep with success, but the opposite occurred during the day. When I would use the Cry-It-Out during his day times naps he would crumble to pieces and I the result was an over tired child. I decided that CIO method during the day was just not working for me and my son. So instead I decided to go into his room right before 40 minutes. I would stand there until he started to stir and not fully wake up. I would gently lay my hand on his chest and apply a little pressure. During his transition from one sleep cycle to the next, it seemed to calm him and allowed him to drift back off into sleep without crying. His 40 minute naps were now lasting 1.5- 2 hours long. I did this for 3 days. Then for the last 3 days I've still gone in his room right before 40 minutes, but I have only had to place my hand on his chest twice to keep him from fully waking up. I am hoping that in another three days I will not even have to go in his room during nap time to keep him from waking early! I hope that this suggestion will help someone who is also struggling with a short napper!

Plowmanators said...

Thanks for sharing that Susanne! It is great to hear the various methods people use to get through this. Yours is very unique and one not many people would think of on their own. So thanks!

Yadira said...

My son just turned 4 months old. He has been taking 45 minute naps since he was 5 weeks old. Recently, they sometimes last an hour, but sometimes they are as short as 35 minutes. He usually sleeps between 8-12 hours at night before needing a feeding (ie: goes to bed at seven and he will either wake up at 3am for a feed or just sleep until 7am. He is formula fed due to severe protein intolerances that we were unable to control with a very restrictive diet). Right after waking up in the morning, he can only stay awake for approximately one hour, although I push it sometimes an extra five to fifteen minutes if he can tolerate it, before needing a nap. After that, the rest of the day he stays up for 1.5 hours before needing a nap except for the afternoon when it is 2 hours because nap interferes with feeding. My question is how can I get to where I have an eat/awake/sleep and repeat cycle so that I can go out during his awake times without having a feeding in between the awake times? Here is his schedule as it currently is:

7 am-wake up feed, play
8:15 down for first nap
9:15 up from first nap in swing
10:00 am feed, play some more
11:00 nap
12ish up from nap in swing
1:00pm feed
1:30 nap
2:30 ish up from nap, play
4:00 feed
4:30- short cat nap to make it to bed time
7:00 pm bed

Thanks for your help!

Mala Mama said...

Please Help! Not sure if I'm posting this question right? Regardless, here's my problem. 9+ month old son. Was great sleeper / napper until teething at 7 months. Recently had problems with waking at night wanting nursed rocked etc. I couldn't get him back down anyother way. Dad busy with work a lot. Finally we got him back to sleeping through the night (after a week or less, of him crying it out sometimes over an hour). NOw that evenings are back to normal, still waking up a little early (10 hours as opposed to happy after 11 hours) and WORSE - he only naps for 30 maybe 40 minutes then wakes up! I have to nurse or rock (after much crying) to get him back down. I let him cry it out and he doesn't stop after 1 hour it's about time to feed. Today he was so tired after supper I rocked him to sleep and held for 1.5 hours. Just to get him some more nap time in. Please advise.

Plowmanators said...

Yadira,

What you need to do is try to get his naps longer. Easier said than done. All of my advice for doing that can be found in these posts:

45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.html

Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html

Optimal Waketime Lengths : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/optimal-waketime-lengths.html

Waketime: Length, Extending, and Calculating: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/waketime-length-extending-and.html

Easy Nap Fix: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/easy-nap-fix.html

Nap Cues : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/nap-cues.html

Plowmanators said...

Mala Mama,

Since he was sleeping well up until 7 months, my guess is there are a couple of possible reasons for this:

1-he could again be having some teething pains or something. Or there is just something else waking him. There is a reason for his waking. The trick would be for you to find what that is and remedy it.

2-He learned some new sleep habits at 7 months and is having a hard time adjusting back. If that is the case, you need to re-train him to sleep on his own without rocking and being held.

See the links I linked above for Yardira for help troubleshooting. See also:

5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html

Yadira said...

Thank you for responding to my comment. I looked at the sites you posted again and began to do a very detailed log. I was doing a log before, but not as detailed. This really helped! Even though after first waking up he doesn't show a cue until approx. 1 hr, he needs to be put down to nap at 40 minutes and then he will nap for 1.5-2 hours. I am still playing detective for the other naps. Thank you for taking time out of what I am sure is a very busy day to help people out! =)

Plowmanators said...

Yadira, you are most welcome! Thanks for the thanks. I am glad you are seeing improvement. Being a mom you become a very good detective :)

Ken and Kristin Parks said...

Hello! I just found your website through a friend of mine and I was browsing through some of your posts looking to see if my question was answered and from what I could see, it wasn't. If it has been answered already, PLEASE let me know and I'll check it out. I have an odd situation. I have an almost 7 month old daughter, our first. She STTN(occasionally she'll lose her "binky" and if we give it back to her she'll go right back to sleep. She starts her bedtime routine by 7pm and is in bed by 8. I watch my little sister during the day (she's 4) and so I need to be at my parents house by 7:30am, meaning we leave our house by 7am. My daughter's routine is like this: She will wake up between 5-6:30am. No matter which time, I nurse her. We get to my parents at 7:30ish and I feed her again around 8am. She acts sleepy around 9/9:30 but cries if I put her down for a nap. I let her CIO and most times she'll cry for over an hour w/out going to sleep and then it's close to time to nurse her again. (I tend to nurse every 3-4 hrs to keep my supply up. I had a hard time with my milk coming in so I'm afraid the supply will go down if I let it go too long between feedings). So I get her up and feed her and normally she'll fall asleep quickly when I nurse her. NORMALLY I'm able to put her in the bed at my parents, and she'll stay asleep but only sleep for 45 min. If she didn't eat very much before going to sleep, I'll feed her again when she wakes up. This continues on all day. Normally she'll only sleep once or twice during the day. Her last feeding at my parents house is between 3/4pm. I leave my folks house about 5ish, get home and feed her a bowl of solid food (pretty good size amount) and sometimes she still wants to nurse after that. She gets tired by 7pm, and we do her routine for bedtime: Bath, get dressed with songs, nurse, story, bed. All that is lead-up to my question! :) I'm just now going through the BW book. First of all, I'm not sure if I'm actually doing anything WRONG, per se, since she's sleeping through the night. It's the naptime issue I'm having trouble with. And the book says by this age she should be on a 3-3.5 hr schedule, but I'm not sure the best way to GET her on that schedule since my days are not all the same. Monday, Tues, and Thurs, my parents need me there at 7:30. Wed and Fri they don't need me there till 9. Saturday I'm at home, Sunday we have church (and we help out in the mornings there so we're there from 7am till 11ish). With such a screwy weekly schedule, how do I get her on a routine that will help her nap? I hope all this made sense and you are able to enlighten me a little. I enjoy reading all the comments from everyone, and Reagan definitely helped me realize that the 45 min. nap (when it happens) is normal :)

Plowmanators said...

Kristin,

At 7 months, she can be on a 4 hour schedule, or even a 3/4 hour combo (some intervals 3, some 3.5, some 4).

If she is awake from that 5-6:30 feeding until 9/9:30, the reason she is crying that long and not going to sleep is that she is overly tired. Most 7 month olds really can't be awake longer than 2hours--including feeding time.

You will see in BW that you want baby to eat, play, sleep, eat, play, sleep, etc.

There are a lot of posts I can direct you to to get on a more organized day.

One thing is that you will want to read the book.

Here are some posts to help you:

Optimal Waketime Lengths : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/optimal-waketime-lengths.html

Consistent Schedule: Start Your Day Right: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/consistent-schedule-start-your-day.html

Getting a Consistent Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/getting-consistent-schedule.html

Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html

Kaya's mama said...

Hi there. My 10 week old daughter is a chronic 45 min napper. I can tell she is still tired when she wakes up but will not always go back to sleep. I have tried most things except CIO- I just don't think I can do it. I also am not sure how to do it since she does go down easily and sleeps for 45 min. Is this still a time for CIO? I am not sure what else I can do. I feel so bad for her because she is so overtired by the afternoon and gets very sleepy for her feeding. How else can I break this cycle?

Plowmanators said...

Kaya's Mama,

I wouldn't do CIO unless/until you are ready for it. If you aren't ready, it won't work because you won't be consistent enough. That is fine if you don't want to do it, I am just letting you know I wouldn't unless you are committed.

You can look into the Baby Whisperer methods for teaching baby to self-soothe without CIO. You can see the blog label "Baby Whisperer." I think you will want The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems book.

See also this post:

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Naps: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/waking-early-from-napswont-fall-asleep.html

Jenny Borders said...

I know this post was written a while ago, but I just found it, and have a question.

I have 4 month old twins. We've been using BW since they were born. They sleep in the same room in different cribs. Night time sleep is great- currently about 7-8 hours in a stretch.

Naps are a different issue. My daughter is like clockwork- waking up about 45 minutes into her nap. I think that's her going through transitions because she puts herself back to sleep within 5-10 minutes. But the problem is her crying wakes up my son, who is a lot more difficult to soothe once he gets upset. Any ideas? Thanks so much!

Becky said...

Help! I can't seem to make Babywise work!

Some ladies at my church introduced me to Babywise and I read it through entirely three times before the birth of my first daughter. I was so excited at the prospect of my little one sleeping through the night at 6-9 weeks and thought everything in the book made so much sense. But in reality, my eight week old daughter is very unhappy and we have the following problems...
1. I have a catnapper, so what's more important, trying to get that 2.5-3 hour feeding routine (and having waketime BEFORE feeding time) or feeding her right after she wakes up (which may mean 1.5-2 hours between feedings)?
2. She cries before naptime, A LOT. The book says up to 45 minutes is normal, but she will literally cry past that until I get her up, it doesn't seem to be diminishing, and I am torn between my husband getting her up because he can't take it anymore and feeling completely emotionally drained from listening to it. Often the crying only happens when I try to put her in the crib (most of the time out of desperation I let her nap in her bouncy chair though she doesn't sleep long there), but if I make the mistake of putting her in her crib and she won't have it...it's all over, and there is no nap. So which is better...a short good quality catnap in the bouncer, or a whole day's worth of ruined sleep in the crib?
3. I know a lot of daytime nap problems are a result of too much waketime. My daughter gets on average an hour at 8 weeks. Is this too much? Any less and I'm feeding her every 1.5-2 hours!! I'm tired!
4. The concept of a happy waking baby eludes us. In the book it says, Mom decides when nap begins and ends. I beg to differ. That is only true if I let my daughter scream all the way through nap time and let her scream until I get her up. How do I ensure she wakes up happy?
5. On a positive note, we are making progress on nighttime sleep. Before our vacation, which completely ruined my life, I was only waking to feed once a night. I'm very close to getting that back, but baby wants to get up at 5:30-6:30 a.m. when I'd like our day to begin at 7:30. The days are miserable though. I used to tell everyone I'd take the miserable days for good nights, but I'm not getting quality waketime with my daughter and not to sound selfish, but I am completely frazzled!

I have read Babywise in its entirety about 8 times trying to make it work for us. I've always prided myself on my problem-solving ability, but I am at the end of my rope. I desperately want this system to work, because it makes sense, Ezzo and Bucknam seem like good Christian people, and most of all, I REALLY WANT A FULL NIGHT'S SLEEP. PLEASE HELP ME!!

Mimi said...

Question: My 12 week old sleeps great through the night 9-10 hours. She has a great morning nap about 2-2 1/2 hours (which is so nice). But the rest of her naps throughout the day are 45min-1hour, which means she feeds about every two hours until bedtime? (up for an hour, then sleep for an hour) how do i stretch out her feeding times? make naps longer? i feel that she should for sure be eating every 3-4 hours by now, not every 2.

Jennifer said...

Becky, I'm sure Valerie will have some good advice for you when she gets to your comment. How frustrating! Until then, there are some posts on the blog that could help. You may have seen them already, but I thought I'd point them out in case you hadn't. The blog label (on the right hand side of the page) "CIO" (Cry it out) would be a great place to start, especially the CIO Bootcamp post (http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/cio-bootcamp.html). That one helped me so much when I was sleep training my LO.

Take a look at the blog label "Mom not baby decides" as well. Valerie really explains it well. Also, on page 133 of BW, where it talks about baby waking up happy, remember that it says that will develop between 4-6 months. It definitely can happen earlier (and probably will as you work through the other problems you're having), but it is ok that it isn't happening yet.

Remember that some BW babies don't STTN until 12 weeks and that is normal. I know how much you want your sleep, but know that it will come. I know reading and reading on this blog helped me to understand so much better how to apply BW. You're doing the right thing! Hang in there!

Angel said...

My LO is a 30 to 45 minute napper, plus still not STTN!! I am at my wits end trying to adjust, but I am afraid she's really not getting enough sleep. She is almost 5 months old and is on a 3 hour schedule. She does use the pacifier for sleep, problem being when it falls out she still wakes up usually. She is still taking 4 naps a day, I am wondering if we need to cut out the last one??? I notice that she gets so tired though, she's cranky just before she needs to go down. Maybe I need to get her down earlier (which I've tried and she just cries or plays for 45 minutes to an hour) If she's still not really STTN (awakens approx. 3 times a night, I replace pacifier and she usually goes back down, sometimes I must feed at 3 or 4) shouldn't she be past this??? Should I focus on STTN first?? SHe is normally a pretty happy baby otherwise.

kggrace said...

My daughter turned three months on Tuesday. I have two questions/concerns: 1)She STTN and has been for a while (consistently for about 2-3 weeks). I am still dreamfeeding her at around 9:45 and she will sleep until 6-6:30 in the morning. I have been giving her the first feeding at 6:30, but I want to move her to a 7:00 schedule. How do I do that?
2) Also, she is a chronic 45-1 hour sleeper. Everyone I talked to suggested laying her on her stomach, which I did (she can flip herself over) and that worked for about a week- slept 2-2 1/2 hour naps.But, about a week ago, she started waking up again. She is on a 3 1/2 hour schedule. Is that too much for her? She stays up for about 70 minutes and then I lay her down. She use to not cry but maybe for a minute or two, but now she is starting to cry for about 5-10 minutes. Am I keeping her up too long? I use to be able to always count on her taking her first nap, but now that one is becoming hit or miss. I use to count on her sleep cues-yawning, red eyed, starting to get fussy, but I feel as though they have disappeared or I am totally missing them. She is my first, and I am new at this. I guess I just feel overwhelmed and like a failure some/most days. Any suggestions on how to get her to sleep longer? I have tried mylicon (for gas), orajel (teething?), and extra feedings (the past few days-growth spurt?)I use to put her in her swing when she woke up and cried and she would go back to sleep, but now she stays awake in it. Below is her schedule:
6:30 Eat
7:15-7:30 lay down (depending on when she woke up)
10:00 Eat
11:00-11:10 lay down
1:30 Eat
2:30-2:40 Lay down
5:00 Eat
6:00-6:10 Swing-Never sleeps during this time-always cries/screams if placed in bed-Any suggestions?
7:30 Eat/Bath
8:15ish Bed
9:45 dreamfeed (slowly moving up by 15 minutes)

Am I not being consistent enough? My husband feels I am overreacting and being too hard on myself. I teach and just want her on a good schedule for her nanny when I go back in the fall.

Becky said...

kggrace...according to Babywise crying for 5-10 minutes before a nap is not only normal, it's pretty good (they say up to 15 minutes). My little one cries all the way through her nap! I understand all your feelings, this is my first and we just STTN for the first time but daytime naps are a disaster and she'd rather be miserable than take them. I am also a teacher and the thing that frustrates me is there's no concrete sequence that yields consistent results. I kept a log this week to see if the crying actually improved if I let her CIO, but alas, no improvement...and if this CIO thing takes weeks or even worse, months, then it's just not for me. I have precious little time at home with my little one and won't waste it listening to her cry day after day with no forseeable end. She's STTN and that was my goal. I'll get her to nap anyway I can! UNLESS SOMEONE OUT THERE HAS A NAP SOLUTION THAT DOESN"T TAKE WEEKS TO YIELD RESULTS! I guess I'm just hoping this "I won't take a nap" thing is just a phase.

Plowmanators said...

Becky,

The reality of implementing things is never as easy as it seems in the books :)

1. This is an excellent question. The answer, I believe, depends on the age of your child. Prior to three months, I might worry more about the cycle. After three months, I think I would start to focus more on having consistent eating times.

2. Another good question. Getting sleep I think is of primary importance at that age, but by going to the bouncer all the time you are robbing long-term quality sleep.

3. With the crying before naps, I would guess the waketime was too long.

4. See the post, Mom, Not Baby Decides. You decide based on what you know. It doesn't mean that you sit down and say "naps are going to start at 8 and end at 10 no matter what." It means that you access the situation and decide what needs to happen. And waking happy doesn't usually start to consistently happen until around 4-5 months old.

5. When choosing waketime, you have to go with what is reasonable for your child. Few babies will go until 7:30, so you might need a more reasonable goal.

If you are still having these troubles, this is what I would do. Try to get her to go to sleep initially on her own in the crib. If you have to hold her and soothe her after 45 minutes of a nap, so be it. Just try to get her used to sleeping longer than 45 minutes and try to get her used to sleeping in her crib.

See also the posts suggested by Jennifer (thanks Jennifer!).

Plowmanators said...

Mimi,

With the long morning nap, there is a good chance that another nap in the day will be no longer than 1.5 hours. Also, the 4th nap is often only 30-45 minutes.

The best thing to do is to experiment with different waketimes. Often the first waketime is the shortest. Then others will be a bit longer. So McKenna's first waketime is 50 minutes. The next two are 60. The last is about 80--though I don't feel like I have the last down perfectly yet.

Mimi said...

Thank you for the advice. This blong is very helful. My daughter, who is about to be 4 months, is now sleeping 12 hours a night (7pm-7am)...which is wonderful! Her morning nap is still great...about 2-2 1/2 hours but every other nap is still 45 minutes. This is a problem because i end up feeding her about every 2 to 2 1/2 hours...and she takes a full feeding each time. is that ok that she is almost 4 months and still eating every 2 hours (because of her 45 min naps and trying to stay on the eat/awake/sleep routine)? Should i try to keep her awake time longer to spread out her eat time?

Plowmanators said...

Angel, don't stress about the four hour schedule. BW says to not push it too soon. It is not a sign that you are "doing everything right." Brayden was 6 months, Kaitlyn was almost 7, and McKenna is 3 months and still not on a 4 hour schedule.

You can definitely cut out the 4th nap.

Honestly my best guess from what you told me is that the pacifier is the problem. She can't sleep without it. All babies (and adults) wake up several times thoughout the night. If they can't fall back asleep on their own, they will need help to do so. Since she needs the pacifier, she needs you to put it in.

There is good news for you. From what I read, most babies can put it back in between 6-8 months, so she should be close. If you don't want to wait, then I would take it away. See the blog label "pacifire" for more.

Plowmanators said...

Kggrace,

1- That should happen naturally over time as she is able to extend her night. The night extension is a gradual thing. Most babies are extended by 16 weeks old or so.

2- At 3 months, she might be waking early due to a growth spurt. Growth spurts can last for a week (but there is not really a predictable time table).

If she started protesting naps suddenly, there are a couple of possible reasons. One is that waketime length now needs to be extended. However, since she is taking shorter naps, there is a good chance she needs shorter waketimes because she isn't as well-rested.

By fall, she should be more predictable. Even by now, she should be more predictable. There will always be shorter naps at times for seemingly no reason. As they get older, things settle down ;)

Plowmanators said...

Mimi,

My thoughts are to still experiment with waketime. Once you get it right, it will hopefully create a situation where she is napping well. It might need to be longer; it might need to be shorter.

With the full feeding, she might just be hungry.

The baby whisperer says to move to a 4 hour schedule at 4 months; however, she doesn't have baby sleeping 12 hours--she still has a dreamfeed in there.

lwicks said...

My son is almost 6 weeks and for the past week or so, when I put him down for a nap, he just lays in his bed, sometimes for up to the whole nap. He may fuss off and on, but he's not crying/screaming (he does that occasionally and we try to make him CIO), just laying looking at everything. I know he's tired because he starts to zone out and looks sleepy, but he just wont shut his eyes. What do I do for a child who just lays in his crib and won't go to sleep? I've tried cutting back his awake time, but to no avail.

Becky said...

I would say let him lay. I thankfully don't have a video monitor and I usually don't use my monitor unless I'm outside, so I'm sure my baby does this occasionally, but as long as the baby's not fussy, I wouldn't worry. If he's fussy, CIO for 15 min or so and then do anything you can to get him to nap the next time around.

sunnygirl said...

This post was so helpful to me. I thought I was the only one with a 45 minute napper. My son is 9 weeks old. Initially I treated it as a growth spurt but that spurt lasted 1 week, then two, this is week 3. Over the last week I've tried everything, longer wake time, shorter wake time, rocking, swinging, anything I could think of to get him to sleep longer.

By his 7 PM feeding, I'd fight him to stay awake. By his 10 PM dream feed, he wouldn't wake up at all. I figured we'd drop that feeding but I was still getting up at 3-4 AM.

Then I talked to my sister in law today who has done BW with all 3 of her little ones. She started asking about my schedule. I feed him every 3 hours. His wake time varied 1:00-1:30 depending on his sleepy signals. She recommended that I tighten the schedule up and only keep him awake for 1 hour each time regardless of his signals. I've did that starting with his 2nd nap today. He has slept for 2 hours for all 3 of the remaining naps!!! I was able to get somethings done around the house and even take a nap myself!

My hope is that now he'll eat more at his later feedings and sleep longer through the night. I thought I'd post what seems to be working for me in the event that it helps someone else.

Liz said...

Hi there,
Thanks so much for this blog. It's so helpful! My questions are about my 10 week old son. We've been doing BW from the beginning and he's been on a 3 hour schedule for the most part (except for a growth spurt) but within the last week or so he's rarely sleeping for the full length of his naps. He's waking up at an hour on the dot from when he goes down. What I'm confused about is if I should offer him a feeding when he wakes up. I thought BW said this is the first thing you should try but it seems like a lot of people use CIO when their kids wake up (based on what I've read here). How do you know which to do? I've been letting my son cry for a little bit when he wakes up early but when it starts to sound like his hungry cry I pick him up and feed him. Every time I've done this he's taken the full feeding but there have been times where I've been persistent and gotten him to go back to sleep on and off for the remainder of his nap (but only if i'm holding him or right next to him and able to calm him when he starts to wake up). I feel like I know him very well and what I'm confused about in this situation is 1) why he's waking up early. 10 weeks doesn't seem to be a "normal" time for a growth spurt. 2) If he's waking up out of hunger, how come he calms down when I pick him up and sometimes is able to sleep more? This isn't consistent with how he normally behaves when he's hungry. Yet, he's taken a full feeding every time I've offered. I'm also hestitant to try the Nap Easy Fix because I've gotten to know his sleep cues pretty well and when I've tried to put him down earlier with out seeing those cues he just seems to cry more before falling asleep.

I should also mention that he's not sttn yet. He's getting a df around 10:30-11:00 and waking up at 3:00-3:30. The DF was a recent addition though because he was waking up at 5 in addition to 3. We've made some progress there in that one morning he went until 6, then had a night where he was up every 2 hours and then the next morning went from 330-7 (progress is a spiral :)). Not sure if him sleeping longer in the morning could have anything to do with this new napping behavior.

I'm so confused and don't feel like I've been able to implement any consistency because I don't have the first feeding time established yet and now he's waking up early from naps. I'm staying diligent to the eat/wake/sleep routine and it doesn't feel like it's working. It feels like we're going backwards instead of stretching things out.

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated! Thank you again for all the time you put into this!

sunnygirl said...

I'm back in need of help. :) The 60 minute exact waketime worked for 1 day. I've continued that for 4 days and we are back to waking up. So I've tried shorter wake time, longer wake time, feeding (sometimes he eats and sometimes he refuses), not feeding, pacifier, diaper changing. Yesterday I narrowed it to a swaddling issue, or so I thought. I had to swaddle him 6 times in 20 minutes. Then I tried leaving 1 arm out, then both arms. With arms out, he really wakes himself up more than he was before. I figured out a swaddle to keep his arms in but now I really cannot figure out why he's continuing to wake up at 45 minutes. Any thoughts?

Plowmanators said...

lwicks, I would try having some more stimulating activities during waketime. Don't overstimulate, but he might be ready for something more. Also, he might need a little longer waketime. Try adding 5 minutes at a time to see if it helps.

Plowmanators said...

Thanks Sunnygirl! I am glad you liked the post.

Plowmanators said...

Liz, my recommendation is to ALWAYS feed first when a baby is younger than three months. Older than three months and you might want to CIO mid-nap, but younger than three months, always feed first. That is my philosophy :)

1-Growth spurts happen every 3-4 weeks. One book I read said the first year is one long growth spurt with faster spurts thrown in there :) Very true. Also, he can need to eat more often just to boost supply. The number of ounces needed is dependent on his weight. As he gets bigger, he needs more ounces. I find my kids nurse on a growth spurt schedule once a week for the first few months.

2-He might be hungry but not necessarily so hungry he can't go to sleep with help.

Some things to try are add more stimulation to his activities. Also, he might just need to relearn how to fall asleep on his own. That seems to happen around two months old. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Sunnygirl, when they get used to waking up after a certain amount of time, they will continue even when they don't need to. I would suggest you try to help him fall back asleep when he wakes early and hopefully his body will get used to sleeping through the nap.

AnnDee said...

My 5-month-old has been taking 45 min. naps more often than not. I was wanting to have him CIO, but was wondering what to do if he is still crying at the time he is supposed to get up to eat. (3-hr-schedule) Do I let him continue until he's--what you referred to in another post as "happy of heart" or asleep, or should I just get him up, feed him and start over? I haven't ever done CIO for naps, unless it was when he first when down, and didn't go to sleep right away. Now, he goes down beautifully, but just can't get past that 45 min. Thanks for your help, and continued support for us all!

Plowmanators said...

AnnDee, have you tried feeding him as soon as he wakes? If not, I would try that for a week or so.

If he is still crying when it is time to get up, I would personally get him up and feed him.

Melissa said...

I have 4 month old twins -- one chronic 45-minute napper (I do not think he has taken a full nap on his own since he was 2 months old) and one somewhat better napper (she's about 50/50 on waking early these days).

I'm continuing to work my way through different solutions and reading and re-reading all the posts/comments/questions/etc here for ideas and support.

My only question is this: Any suggestions for being able to leave babies with someone else? Currently the only time I can get out of the house on my own is after the babies have gone to bed at night -- any other time, I am too worried about someone else having to deal with the waking (two at once = NOT FUN). This last week, during a few days when we were trying out allowing them to CIO, I left them with my husband for a couple of hours while I went to the store, but I can't ask someone else to cope with two babies crying for 45+ minutes, and I don't think my babies would let anyone else rock them back to sleep (which so far is the only thing that has worked to extend naptime and get them the rest that they need).

Just wondered how others had coped with leaving their 45 minute nappers in the care of others?

Plowmanators said...

Melissa, your situation is unique since there are two. Could you get more than one person to take care of them?

I don't have experience with this at all. My neighbor who has twins (16 months old--not a BW mom) says that she just had to accept the fact that she wouldn't get to leave her house much for a while. She said there were weeks she didn't leave the house from Sunday to Sunday. That really isn't a fun solution though :)

Melissa said...

Thanks, Valerie.

Yeah, that's pretty much my life -- Sunday to Sunday! I've negotiated a little bit of time out on Saturday afternoons when my husband will watch them, but other than that, it's all me, all the time. (We've also had nighttime waking issues start recently, so it's just a bundle of fun at our house!)

We've reached a sort of armistice with the naps where the babies will finish their naps without much complaining in either their swing or bouncy seat. My worry is that this has become such a habit that they are never going to learn to put themselves back to sleep and will always expect the swing/bouncy (and also I worry that they will soon be too big for them!).

I am going to try Susanne's method above (Tracy Hogg also suggests this in one of her books) for a few days soon and see how it goes.

Anyway, no need to reply to this comment -- I'll return and let you know how it goes if anything great happens so that others can refer in future!

AnnDee said...

I posted a few months ago when my son was 4 months old. He was taking 45 min. naps then, and then for like 2 weeks, took at least one 2 hour nap a day-yay! I was so excited! Then, Thanksgiving came, and he was put to sleep in his carseat at different places for like a week in a row-hate when that happens! (He is now almost 8 months.) He also about this time learned to roll over. Now, for the past two weeks, he has been doing TERRIBLE with naps! I don't know what happened-unless it was the above mentioned disturbances, but I really thought he'd be back on schedule again. He's still STTN, and I'm working on dropping the dreamfeed-I'm doing that at 9:15, and will move to 8:45, and then hopefully drop it in the next week or so. He goes to bed around 7:15/30 and wakes at 7:15/30 AM. I don't let him sleep past 7:30, or get up before 7:15. (Although with the following nap problem, it does seem to be starting to disturb his night sleep. Every other day or so, he will wake up and cry softly for anywhere from 5-30 min. and then will go back to sleep w/o any interference from me.) Anyways, he has been on a 3 hour schedule, and I just don't know how I can move him up because he can't seem to be awake for more than 1 hour 15-30 min. or so. I will then put him down, and he will go down beautifully-I've watched on my camera and literally in less than 5 min. he's out. The problem is that he has been waking up earlier and earlier! Today all naps were 30 min. long. We were able to go up to him after he woke up that early and settle him down, lay him back down awake, and he went back to sleep and slept for an hour. I have tried CIO, keeping him in his bed until the time he "should" be getting up; he will sometimes cry the entire time, or sometimes he will just stop crying out of no where and just roll around and kick, etc., but he WILL NOT go back to sleep-He is tired, and will be grumpy until the next nap, which shortens his wake time each time which makes for a day of one hour awake, 30-45 min. asleep all day. This is hard to keep! I want to move him to two long naps w/a catnap, but don't know how to do it with him. I am getting frustrated! What can I do to help him get back to a sleeping schedule that will help him to be happy!? (And me too!)Am I going to have to keep the 3 hour routine forever?

Plowmanators said...

AnnDee, one option is to start trying to extend his waketime length. Also, consider his waketime stimulation (be sure he is getting enough stimulation and exercise). Also, consider the "wonder weeks." Around that age is a developmental leap. See the blog label "wonder weeks" for more on that. Those can be aweful. We are having one right now :)

marisa said...

Thank you so much for your insight. My daughter is 15 weeks old and has been taking chronic 60 minute naps for almost three weeks. She was STTN, but in the last 2 weeks has stopped as well. She is on a 3 hour schedule starting at 7 am. I have been letting her CIO and she maybe can get back to sleep for one of her naps and by her 4th nap she is so overtired she'll usually cry for the whole nap. By the 7 and 10 pm feeding she's exhausted and it's a struggle to get her to feed well, but she falls to sleep easily and stays asleep. I have read all the blogs multiple times and have tried everything! I'm beginning to think that she has created a habit of early waking. I don't think it's a hunger issue because I've tried to feed her and she's disinterested. How do you recommend I get her back to sleep? Do you think that the poor daytime naps are effecting her evening? I feel like she's spending half her life crying.

Plowmanators said...

Marisa,

I have to wonder what is causing her to wake. When a baby does well and then "suddenly" starts waking, there is a reason for it. So I would look back to when she stopped sleeping well and try to pinpoint what changed. What is different? Does she have reflux?

She definitely would have a harder time sleeping in the evening if she isn't getting good day time naps.

The Jones Family said...

Reagan - I just came across this post, I am a first time mom of a 10 week old. We have been doing sleep training since Week 5 and my daughter still consistently wakes up at the 45 minute mark. Most of the time she will not go back to sleep after this point. I will let her CIO but sometimes that means that she cries for the rest of her nap. When you said that you learned to accept that your baby was a 45 minute napper and got her up, did that mean you just let her have waketime until it was time to eat again? If I did that with her, I'm guessing I would just need to put her down earlier for the next nap. She would more than likely be fussy since she didn't get enough sleep before. Please advise!!

Brandie said...

I wish I would have found this post earlier for my own peace of mind. My daughter is now 16 weeks and I had accepted weeks ago that she just was not going to fit into the Baby wise schedule. Of course I cried a bunch, felt guilty, felt like something was wrong with me etc. I love the concept of Baby wise but The Baby Whisperer gave information that eased my mind.. about how some babies only need 45 mins of sleep and that not all babies are the same. I go by sleep cues more then the clock. She is only awake for maybe an hour at a time and then down for her 45 min nap...so it makes it very hard to run errands or just get out of the house. If we do go out, of course she misses a nap and I deal with baby melt down. When she wakes up from her naps she is very happy though. As far as her feeding schedule..it is pretty much every 2-3 hours regardless of her sleep schedule. So sometimes she eats before naps, during naps, after naps. I guess she has 2 schedules and I have accepted it. At least she is predictable. I feel like I gave it my all. I am praying that as she gets older her naps will get longer. For now..she is happy and now I am happy.

callie_brooke said...

Val,
My 11 1/2 week old son has had problems with 35-45 minute naps since he was about 4 weeks old. It started out at exactly 45 minutes and in recent weeks has turned into 35 minute naps. I have done loads of troubleshooting, he's in a dark room with white noise, in his crib, swaddled. I've extended and shortened waketimes, nothing has changed. I let him lay for about 5-10 minutes when he wakes but he usually cries and has never gone back to sleep. I've figured out that if I move him to the swing and prop a paci in his mouth he will go back to sleep and stay asleep usually till the next feeding (he's on a 3 hr schedule 8-8). So I do this for all of his first 3 naps, everyday. He goes to sleep initally on his own with no props as long as I have his waketime right (which is about 50-55 minutes right now). The 4th nap is the same way and I used to move him to the swing but then had troubles with bedtime so I decided to just let him be awake but he's often quite fussy if I do that. (And otherwise he's the happiest baby ever) My questions:
1. Am I trying to force too much sleep on him? His nights are awful, waking anywhere from 2-5 times a night and so I wonder if I'm making him have too much daytime sleep. But he falls back asleep in the swing and stays that way until I get him up or he wakes.
I've just noticed that most moms with 45 min. sleepers just get them up and go on.
2. If I were to just let him get up there are a couple of problems: 1. He still acts tired, so I know he needs more sleep. 2. He can only handle about 55 min. max of waketime or he won't go to sleep on his own. 3. He doesn't eat very well on less than 3 hours. So how would I handle this?
3. If your baby ALWAYS wakes at the 45 min. mark how do you know when they are having a growth spurt and you need to feed them?
4. I accepted that he always wakes at 45 min. and planned on just using the swing/paci method indefinitely until he outgrows the 45 min transition problem. But, am I creating a problem doing this? Is that what is causing his night wakings?
Thanks for answering my questions. Figuring out a schedule and having a 45 min. napper is sooo hard!
Callie

Plowmanators said...

Callie_Brooke,

1-no, that is not too much sleep. I would guess he is waking often at night because he isn't yet able to self-soothe at a transition--you can tell that since he wakes early from naps consistently.
2-I would stick with what you are doing over getting him up given his age and abliity.
3-Growth spurts do happen at fairly predictable times. Usually every 3-4 weeks. Plus, he most likely won't fall asleep in the swing if he is hungry.
4-At his age, I think this is fine. But sometime in the next couple of months, you will want to try to have him not need to move to a swing as best you can.

One note is for some babies, the reason for waking is the pacifier. They are unable to sleep without it, so they wake fully at transitions because it is gone. There are basically two ways to handle it. One is take it away. Two is just accept that and wait for him to be able to wake up, find it, and put it back in. Both options are fine--it just depends on you.

Kristin Liddell said...

Thank you so much for this blog and for guest posts like Raegan's! Its a huge blessing to me to simply know there are other Christian Babywise moms out there that are struggling or have struggled through the same things I am going through. Thank you to you both for your practical advice and for reminding me that we are raising individuals and need to be flexible and sometimes spontaneous (which is hard for me... I too am very much an x + y = z type person). Thank you also for your reminder of what really matters, moral issues! Thank you also for the simple encouragement to lean on God during the hard times. With your posts and through the comments and responses of other I now at least have a plan in place, which brings me so much more peace than simply feeling like "I have no idea what to do!!!!" Thank you again, praise God for this resource and I pray for blessings upon your families!

Plowmanators said...

You are so welcome Kristin!

Iris said...

hi-i found your blog almost 3 years ago when i had my first baby. he did really good with BW and now i have a 7 week old that is very different. my 7 week old has reflux and her naps last no more than 45 minutes. i too, have been crying all day and am so blessed to see all these comments from Christian moms praying for help. i felt that God brought me to your blog in 2008 and again today. what should i do when my 7 week old wakes up early from her nap because of her reflux? also, she's not STTN because i hesitate to give her the dreamfeed because everytime i've tried doing it, it messes up her digestive system/reflux and she wakes up 3 hours later each time. but if i put her down at 8pm she usually wakes up at 1 or 2am. i would like for her to go from 10pm to 4am but as i said earlier it seems to mess up her reflux. should i keep trying the dreamfeed at 10pm or keep the last feed at 8pm and hope she eventually sleeps until 4am?

Katie {My Paisley Apron} said...

My baby is 3.5 months old, almost 4 months, and we've been struggling with 45 minute naps for a while. This week, we are starting to let her CIO mid-nap. We'll see. We've done BW from the beginning and she's been a pretty easy baby.

I'm wondering if you had considered doing a post on preventing the 45 minute napper from developing? I COMPLETELY agree that once they get used to waking at 45 minutes, they keep doing it, and they have a very hard time remembering how to take longer naps. I think that's why so many babies turn into chronic 45 minute nappers once they start. Just a thought. It does seem that prevention works best with babies and sleep!!

Joanna Maloney said...

What a great blog. Thank you! I have two questions that I'm hoping you can help with. When my 6 week old baby wakes up from his nap (which is always at the 45 minute mark), should I feed him and readjust the schedule? It sometimes will mean we are only on a two hour schedule and I know he is getting plenty of food during his feeding (our Ped said he is eating well and actually a little more than most formula fed 6 week olds). I haven't wanted to feed him as soon as he wakes (to prevent food from becoming a paci) but if I don't, we have up to an hour of screaming to deal with. Any tips?

Also, does a nap in every cycle really mean my baby should have up to 6 naps a day? How does one implement that without staying in the house all day long. BW book recommends that one of the waketime periods could be running errands but how many errands can you run in 45 - 60 minutes with a newborn? I REALLY want to implement BW but I'm having trouble with the practicality of naps.

Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Iris, reflux is a whole different world.

Just know that it does get better--your child will "outgrow" it at some point in most cases.

I wouldn't mess with the dreamfeed. I know that is not the best hours for you. I would suggest you spend a couple of weeks going to bed between 9-10 so you can get some extra sleep before that first feeding. Most sleep experts say every hour of sleep before midnight is worth at least two after midnight (some say four), so you will feel better if you go to bed earlier. I say just two weeks because it will give you some end in sight and you won't feel like this is your life forever.

At some point, she will sleep through.

Be sure to read the posts on reflux. Look at the blog index under "reflux"

Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Katie,

I will ponder on that and see if I can pinpoint some things to do. Good idea!

Plowmanators said...

Joanna,

Thanks!

At six weeks, it is likely a growth spurt, so yes, feed when he wakes early.

If you don't think he is hungry, see the post on "naps: troubleshooting revised and updated." That has lots of ideas as to why he might be waking early.

There are a lot of naps as a newborn, for example:

7--feeding, then nap
10--feeding then nap
1--feeding then nap
4--feeding then nap
7--feeding then bedtime

So that is four naps a day.

But yes, it can be hard to get out of the house. What most people do is do errands during a nap and have the baby sleep in the carseat or sling or something.

Good luck!

Joni said...

Have been reading your blog since #2 came along and this is my first question! Now doing BW on kid #3! All 3 of mine struggled with 45 min naps for a long time! They all outgrew them eventually but dealing with them is enough to drive me insane! Anyway, #3 is 8 weeks and getting into chronic 45 min naps. I can sometimes get him to sleep more by moving to the swing, sometimes not. I am a big fan of Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child also. He says that irregular, unpredictable naps are normal before 3-4 months because it's a developmental issue -- that part of the brain has not fully developed. I believe this. It seems there is nothing you can do and I don't think it's a hunger issue most of the time. My question is this -- if putting baby in the swing to begin with prevents a 45 min wakeup is that bad? He doesn't have any 45 min wakeups during the night and never needs the swing at night! What do you think? Thanks!

AmyK said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AmyK said...

I just discovered your blog yesterday, and I have to say this is the most helpful collection of child-raising info that I have discovered online! Thank you so much for all the time and effort you must put into this.

My question is similar to Joni's. My little guy is a wonderful sleeper, extremely happy and pleasant. He wakes up each morning and from naps smiling and cooing and is alert during the day. He sleeps 10-11 hrs a night in his crib with no night wakings at 4 months old. He's napped 1-2 hours 2-3X a day since 2 months, on a very consistent schedule.

The catch is... his naps have always been in a swing (though, he does sleep just fine in his crib at night).

This week I started trying to get him down for naps in the crib instead. He goes down well, which I'm thrilled about, but he wakes after 30-45 min. I'm working on changing that (testing varied waketime amounts, sticking to a routine, etc).

My question is: Should I even be fighting this right now? I've had a lot of moms tell me to just go with it (i.e. let him swing, given how happy he is and how easy it makes life for me). They say he'll eventually outgrow the need for it and it will be a non-issue. Your thoughts? I'd love to give in to that notion, but I'm worried that waiting too long will just make the transition even harder... in which case I better take the time to do this now at 5 months old.

I know that the 'professionals/ authors' would tell me to crack it now most likely, but I'd be interested from your real-world 'mom' experience and perspective what your thoughts are on this. I know it is a subjective question...

Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

Plowmanators said...

Joni, I think that is a good option for that age. See the post "waking early from naps/won't fall asleep for naps" for my full recommendations.

Plowmanators said...

Amy, I would start naps in bed and then move to the swing when he wakes early. Good luck!

SleeplessinPHX said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Josiah & Jenna said...

I have posted before about my daughter's nap issues and you referred me to this post, which was so encouraging, but I am still worried my daughter is sleep deprived and i don't know how to fix it. She is now 11 months old (I think she was 7 months the last time I posted). I thought we had solved the 45 min nap problem for about 2 months-- she was napping beautifully once we dropped the 3rd nap. She would nap 1 to 1.5hrs in the morning, and then 2-2.5hrs in the afternoon. She did this for about a month or two until we went on vacation and she got all messed up. She hasn't been the same since. Now, I am lucky to get a 30 min morning nap and an hour afternoon nap. Going from 3-4hrs of total daytime sleep to 1.5hrs of total daytime sleep seems like a huge change for the worst. Even when she was doing 3/45min naps she got more sleep than she does now. I've noticed her night sleep has decreased too. She used to sleep 11-11.5 hrs at night, now it is more like 10.5. Overall, I am worried that she is sleep deprived. She is overall a happy baby and typically wakes up happy even though I make her stay in her bed until it is time to eat. She will just sit and talk/play until I go get her. But I notice she is constantly yawning and rubbing her eyes during the day. I've tried going back to 3 naps but on days I do that she sleeps even less at night. On a side note, she got her 1st 2 teeth about a month ago (while we were on vacation) and I think she may have a few more on the way. Maybe this is the culprit? But, she will probably be teething on and off until she is 2 years old, so how do I help her nap better despite the teething? Any advice would be appreciated...I'm at a total loss. Even her pediatrician doesn't seem worried-- she says it is normal and that I am lucky she sleeps so much at night.

Plowmanators said...

Jenna,

The first teeth to come in are the most painful...until k9s and molars :). Try mortrin and see how she responds on pain killer.

I would stick to your two naps. You could try shortneing the morning nap if you think that it isn't teeth at all.

Liz Koors said...

help! my 13 week old (corrected age 10.5 weeks) wakes up at 45 min for
EVERY nap. he has reflux and we use a paci. sometimes he falls back
back to sleep with the paci, but it usually takes about 20-40 minutes
of tossing and turning. otherwise, i just get him up and feed him
(although usually he's not too interested in eating).
my question is this - if he goes back to sleep after 20-45 minutes
then it's time to feed him 30 minutes after he falls back asleep in
order to keep in him on 3 hr schedule. should i wake him to maintain
the 3 hr feeding time or give him more time to sleep since he's only
been back alseep for a half hour.
help please!!
liz

Plowmanators said...

Liz,

If he falls back asleep, you could give him an extra thirty minutes (so take him to 3.5 hour feeding schedule), but I wouldn't go more than that.

As to his waking, unfortunately it is a by-product of reflux. There are things you can try to do to keep him more comfortable--elevating matress, meds at correct dosage, watching what you eat if you breastfeed, etc., but once you have done all you can, he still might wake early and you have to work with it the best you can. I know it is tiring (I have had a reflux baby), but I also know that it will not last forever. Hang in there!

The Russells said...

Amazing Post! Thank you so much. I wish I had found this earlier. My 8 month old has been the 45 minute napper since the very beginning. Some naps he will go back to sleep...some days he will play and then even cry. Then we have wonderful days when he will sleep a solid 1.5 to 2 hours. He has never had a night waking issue at all and we are currently working on dropping the 3rd nap (catnap of 30-45 min.)

However, I simply began to listen for cues that he had had enough crib time. AS soon as talking to himself became crying (after the waking), I simply go in and get him up. then we read or play quietly until it is time to eat again (4hr schedule). It has worked beautifully. My revelation came when I realized that it was ok to do things my way, as long as I kept the BW principles in mind. I am in charge and I know what is best for my child. I am much more relaxed, but there are times that I blurt out one or two colorful words when I see him moving around after 45 minutes of sleep.

Just like Lisa...everyone always talks about what a good baby he is. He is better behaved than any of the children in his playgroup and rarely is he fussy...even when the day's naps have been shorter than preferred.

Those moms who have this kind of sleeper...so what? Make it work for you. It is a season and will pass...even if the season is a long one!

Mel said...

THANK GOD for this post...I've been losing my mind lately trying to figure out why my "great sleeper" all of a sudden at six/seven months will not nap longer than 45 minutes. After placing so much blame and pressure on myself to figure out what I did wrong, it's so wonderful to learn that it's not me. I feel like I've lost weight! Thank you so so so much!

Plowmanators said...

Russells, I love what you said--you are the mom and you do what is best for your child! Perfect.

Plowmanators said...

So glad to hear Mel!

Krista Verba said...

I am so thankful I found this post, it's so reassuring! I don't know how I missed it before because I've used your blog as a reference for a while now and it's wonderful!

My son is ten months old and we've been battling the 45 minute naps for quite some time now. More recently though, he has a poopy diaper EVERY time he wakes up from a short nap! I am not sure if he does it prior to falling asleep then it wakes him up, or if he wakes up because he has to poop. I realize this is kind of silly and there may be no cure, but I'm at a loss!! It has even interfered with nighttime sleep, which he used to be a champ at. I've tried adjusting his breakfast and lunch times, but to no avail. I'm at a loss for what to do! Have you ever dealt with this? Thanks!

Janel Reisch said...

I am in need of some help! I have a 10 week old. These short naps have been happening for 3 weeks now. At first I thought it was a growth spurt, but my daughter will wake up sometime between 45-60 mins at EVERY nap except the first of the day, which I almost always get at least 1.5-2 hours. I read her sleep cues. I have had her in her crib at after 1 hour of awake time, sometimes even less, and no matter what I do she is crying by 1 hour into the nap. She falls asleep VERY easily, although she does get a pacifier to lay down, but most the time she spits it out before she really falls asleep. And I will not replace it if she does spit it out and cries for it, I do not go back in. I have never had her cry at the beginning of a nap for more than 10 mins. I swaddle her tight, lay her in her bed, and have music playing along with a fan going in a very dark room. I do not understand why she cannot transition to the next sleep cycle after the first nap of the day. I can see that she is tired. I will let her cry for 10-15 mins but she NEVER falls back asleep. If I move her to the swing even if I do not let her cry, she just sits in the swing content but not sleeping. I have tried immediately giving her the paci the minute she stirs (I have a video monitor), but that never works so I have stopped doing that. I really dont know what to do! I am at a complete loss. My first I had trouble putting him to sleep but once he was asleep, it was 2 hours naps every time. He still is a great sleeper and almost NEVER wakes up in the middle of the night or has any problem going to sleep. I am just at a loss. I know she is tired. I have eliminated all of the toys basically from her. She is not overstimulated. I don't know how to make her sleep past the 45 minute nap. Its impossible to get anything done and I feel so bad for her at the same time. What do I do?! Thanks!

Valerie Plowman said...

I would try adding 5-10 minutes of waketime length.

I think it could be related to the pacifier, though with you going in to try to help with that, I think it is less likely.

Samantha Strom said...

I am in need of some help. I have 5 month old twin boys who are very active and love to be awake! But we are struggling with a couple things. First, wake time. They seem to get very tired after about an hour and 15 minutes of being awake. it isn't a huge problem, but when I put them down they only want to nap for 20-45 minutes. In the morning I have been letting them do this twice. They get up for the day around 7, nap around 830-9, then back down for a nap around 1030-11. Then we do a big nap at 1230 or 1 where ideally I want them to sleep for 2-2.5 hours. This is 50% of the time successful. They always wake up after 30-40 minutes and then sometimes will fall back asleep and then other times need to be held. we also do another cat nap around 430-5 before bath/bed time. I need some advice. Should i be combining the morning naps? How can I work to extend their wake times? It can be very challenging with multiples because they have different needs. We follow your blog very closely and have tried everything. Any suggestions?

Valerie Plowman said...

Hi Samantha, I would try to get the morning naps to be one longer nap. What do you do isn't the cause of waking early?

Kristin L. said...

Val, do you have any polls on how many readers have dealt with chronic 45 minute naps and how those readers handled it? My second son is now 8 months old and is a short napper, just like my first son was. It has been very frustrating to say the least. Especially since after dealing with short naps with my first son, I worked extremely hard to figure out my second son's optimal wake time to avoid over-tiredness and short naps. But to no avail, he still takes short inconsistent naps, making it impossible to have a set schedule day to day. I manage to have him eat at consistent times each day, but I cannot nail down set nap times or get him to sleep longer than 45 minutes most days. He still takes four naps a day and my biggest struggle is getting him through the evening until bedtime. Due to short naps and even with 1.5-2 hour wake times I usually wind up putting him to bed between 6:30 and 7pm and then he wakes up between 5 and 7am the next morning. Any suggestions you could offer would be great! Thanks! :)

Kristin L. said...

Hey Val,

Never got a response to my above comment/question. My 9 month old's sleeping patterns has led me to a new question though... Is there any way to influence or change the morning wake up time? I would prefer Blake to wake up at 7am each morning, but he almost always wakes up at 6:25. With short naps through out the day I usually have him in bed, lights out, at 7pm. I feel that with his lack of day time rest, I can't really push it any later than that. And his early and sometimes inconsistent morning wake up time makes it hard for me to find the best time to put him down for his first nap. And after the first nap of the day turns out to be 45 minutes, the rest of the naps usually don't turn out well. Its all connected but I don't know what part of his day/schedule to adjust to help fix it! Any suggestions? Thanks! :)

Valerie Plowman said...

Hi Kristin--sorry I didn't see your first response!

For the 45 minute naps, if you go to the index and then to "poll results", you can scroll down to find 45 minute nap polls.

For morning wake up time, I would go with the time change posts. That is how you would tackle early pending waking.

Wren said...

Hi,

Wow, short nappers are obviously common! Just wanted your opinion on changing routine when it comes to Chronic Short Nappers!

My 1st (now a little over 2yrs) was a fight sleep at all costs but once she fell asleep would sleep 2.5 to 3hrs easy (sleep training from 6wks after we got a milk protein intolerance under control). My second did sleep training from birth and now unless we are in witching hour goes straight off to sleep and wakes happy between 45 - 75mins. Both girls were on 4hr feed routines from birth (both had to be woken to feed for the few weeks) and muck around if you try to feed too much closer together so we have a longer gap to try and fill.

After trying everything (she is now 3mths and has been short napping for a good 6wks and I have tried absolutely everything!) I have settled on accepting and working with it which for her means up and awake in the swing after her short nap with no stimulation until she just falls off to sleep there. If I catch her yawning (her nap cue) she goes back up to bed otherwise she falls asleep again in the swing after 45mins to an hr of being awake. She is content to do so but it changes the routine to Feed, Wake, Sleep, Wake, Sleep.

From experience do you thing this sort of change would impact getting the longer naps (ie- falling into the habit of short naps) or the overall sleeping through the night concept?

Thanks,

Jen

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