Saturday, May 10, 2008

5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions


I have had several questions as of late about difficulties with a 6 month old baby. I wanted to bring to everyone's memory this from Babywise II (108-109).

NIGHT SLEEPING
If your child has sudden night waking between 5-8 months of age:

NAPS
Your child might be sleeping fine at night, but between 5-8 months start waking early from naps. This can last anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks, according to the book.
  • Be confident that with the exception of a third nap, your child does need a nap longer than 45 minutes.
  • The waking appears to be due to a new awareness of surroundings. As your child transitions from RSP and ASP sleep, something wakes him. It can be something as simple as a door shutting. Many children don't want to miss out on the action. My son was (and is) this way--he is almost 3 years old. When he was 6-12 months, we were very cautious at the 45 minute mark during naps. We would be really quiet so we didn't wake him up. He now sleeps great once he is asleep. My daughter (almost 13 months) has always loved sleeping, so this hasn't been an issue for her. She has had her occasional nap disrupted by a barking dog, but 99% of the time she sleeps right through noise.
  • Also check out these posts: 45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.html , Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
Not all babies experience these troubles, but some do. If your baby is one of them, consider these factors first in your troubleshooting.
Reader Questions:
  • Mark said...
    Need Help!!sara is almost 6 months and we have been doing BW since she was born however the last week or so her napping and nighttime sleep feels like a newborn. her schedule the last few weeks: BF/eat 630, 1030, 230, 630 with babyfood offered after each feeding. then at 7p bath and singing/praying then bed. she would wake up once or twice in the night wanting her pacy but would go back to sleep. the last week she has woke up multiple times. i tried CIO last night and she cried for 2 hours--i would check on her every 10-15 in without her knowing but i do not know what to do. we got 6 mo shots today and the pediatrician says all her recent behavior is due to teething! what do you think? any reccomendations about teething (he said motrin every 6 hours). also, she has gotten where she wants to be held all the time and continually entertained. she use to do some independent play too and did well but the last week or so feels like we are starting all over. any advice or suggestions is welcomed.... thank you for your site. stacy :)
    July 23, 2008 6:42 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Stacy, There are several possibilities. One is major growth spurt at 6 months. Teething is definitely possible. See this post:Tips and Tricks: Teething: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/tips-and-tricks-teething.html Also see this post:5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html It is also possible the paci is interfering with life. I don't know your paci habits, but see this for further insight: Pacifiers : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/pacifiers.html
    July 25, 2008 1:55 PM

152 comments:

heather said...

You are speaking my language today!!! :) I'm one of those 6-month moms that about to pull my hair out. I'm so confused about what's going on. She slept perfectly from the age of 8 weeks until 6 months, but then began waking early. Around the 5 o'clock hour (wake-up had always been 7). The night before last she woke at 4:15 and last night she woke at 2:30. I let her cry last night for 45 minutes with no success. I fed her and she slept again until 6:15. I am so hesitant with feeding her b/c I don't want to establish a pattern that we have never had before, and I'm afraid of her "clock" getting stuck where I don't want it to. But, if she's waking to hunger, then I want to tend to that, of course. This has been going on for three weeks or more now. I thought it might be a growth spurt, but could that still be the case?

Another thought...I'm still breast feeding and her weight gain hasn't been great in my opinion. (Only gaining a couple of ounces in a month.) She's on solids and is doing great with that. All this makes me wonder if she is really not getting all the calories she needs from my milk. I can't believe I dare do this, but would you try implementing the late night feed again in hopes it will carry her through the night? Sorry for my rambling!

heather said...

How annoying am I????!!!! Sorry! One more thing. :) We're experiencing nap issues as well, so let me give you a sample of our napping today. 1st nap- 1 hour. 2nd nap- 45 min. 3rd nap- 45 min. I put her down for another 30 min. for a 4th nap b/c it was still so early in the day. I really don't think she's getting too much daytime sleep that would affect her nights, even though they aren't long stretches, do you???

Plowmanators said...

Hi Heather,

A growth spurt will last as long as it needs to. Once your baby gets all of the extra food she needs, it will end. Keep in mind that it might not be so much a spurt as an increase. Increasing daily calories will help that.

I would consult with her doctor about weight gain. My daughter started out on the smaller end of the scale and has pretty much stayed there her whole life. Her doctor has never been concerned with her rate of weight gain. If it were me, I would add more calories in the form of solids rather than adding a late night feeding. OR I would go down to a 3 hour schedule.

Do consider teething since nights and days are both having disruption. I don't think she is getting too much sleep. I think I would work down to 3 naps a day and cut out that 4th unless she is too cranky to stay awake.

Sleep begets sleep, so better naps should translate into better nights. Good luck!

Shari said...

I need help, please!

I am the mother of a a 5 month old, but she was a preemie so her adjusted age is 9 weeks. (Developmentally I think she is somewhere in the middle, though she did start cereal & baby food when she was 4 months old, per direction from her Dr.) I have had her on BW since day one. She has always done pretty good with the daytime schedule (though getting her to sleep at night can be a challenge). However, a few weeks ago she was sick with a cold. She was very cranky (which is out of the norm for her) & obviously we let her sleep more than normal during the day & stuff because she felt so bad. She went 6-7 hours at a time without eating, but not for a lack of trying on our part.

Here is my question...how do I get her back on track? Today she has started a thing where she drinks 1 ounce until she falls asleep & then gets up an hour later fussing. (BTW..I have never once let her fall asleep on the bottle.) I need to know how to get her back on track...what is the best way to start? I didn't really have to deal with this in the beginning because she was on a 3 hour schedule in the hospital & she was in there for 52 days, so she was very scheduled when she came home.

I would appreciate anyone's input! I am so happy to find this...I have been looking for a BW message board or blog for a while.

I won't post anymore for now, but if you want me to post a sample schedule or something, let me know. Also, as a side note, we have never had a regular wake up time...could that be one of our issues?

Thanks so much!

Plowmanators said...

Do set a regular start time. BW says to not underestimate the power of that. It is normal to have things a bit wacky after a disruption. I would start by really working on getting a full feeding out of her. It is normal for her if she falls asleep eating, to then wake up cranky. That is also mentioned in the books.

Here are some posts that should help you:

Sleepy Newborns: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/sleepy-newborns.html

Comforting a Sick Toddler/Baby: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/comforting-sick-toddlerbaby.html

Dealing With Disruptions To Your Routine: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/dealing-with-disruptions-in-your.html

Be sure to look through the blog index for a complete list by subject of the previous posts. Glad you found us!

http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/index.html

Kim said...

My 6 month old has been waking a lot at night recently, which is unusual since he's been sleeping great through the night since 2 months of age. My guess is that it could be teething, it could be the fact that he recently started solids and I think that affects his digestive track, and we're also getting ready to move 5 states away, so he could possibly feel the stress and change going on.
I saw your suggestions for how to handle troublesome naptimes, which is helpful, but my question is what do I do when he wakes up at night? Its happening 5-6 times a night and I want to be able to comfort him without creating a bad habit.

Baum Shelter said...

I feel your pain, Kim. I have a six month old that is waking up several times in the night as well. Thankfully, she isn't crying and doesn't seem to need comfort. But she'll typically wake up at 4:30, talk to herself and play for awhile, then settle back down. Wake up at 5:30, settle back down, and wake up again around 6:15 and stay awake until I get her at 7:00. She doesn't appear to be hungry at all-because of the lack of crying. Her morning and afternoon naps have also decreased from 2 hours to 1 1/2. She still takes a 30-minutes evening catnap because she's a major crank if she doesn't. We visited the doctor and he said that she looks great and that there's no signs of teething. Any thoughts?

Plowmanators said...

Kim, It is hard when you have so many possible contributing factors; I think it sounds like any one of those can be the issue. If it is teething, you wouldn't want to just leave him in bed alone. If you are okay with Tylenol, I would give that to him before bed and try giving it to him at night when he wakes if it has been long enough (I would get the proper dosage prepared before you went to sleep to prevent you from giving him the wrong dosage in your sleepy state). If he is waking from feeling stress, I don't know that leaving him alone is the answer either.

Here are some posts to help:

Nighttime Sleep Issues: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nightime-sleep-issues.html

Tips and Tricks: Teething: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/tips-and-tricks-teething.html

Comforting a Sick Toddler/Baby: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/comforting-sick-toddlerbaby.html

Plowmanators said...

Baum Shelter, You situation sounds pretty much like what is described in the book as basically an awareness of surroundings. I would check out these posts for additional ideas:

Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
Nighttime Sleep Issues: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nightime-sleep-issues.html

Rachel Stellaaa said...

My six month old started waking up anywhere from 1-3 hours earlier than usual in the morning and is usually waking up crying. This happened suddenly one morning and has occured pretty much every day for the last few weeks. I have tried nursing him more during the day and giving him a dream feed at night (which was previously dropped) but this doesn't seem to help. I have even given him tylenol before thinking maybe he was in pain, but to change. I started solids about 2 weeks ago and it hasn't made any difference. I have even tried blocking out the sun even more in his room. ANY THOUGHTS?

Plowmanators said...

Rachel,

Have you tried the third nap dropping or shortening? Also, if it coincided with starting solids, I would consider a food allergy, consitipation, intolerance, etc. I would also try to figure out what is going on when he wakes, though it doesn't seem he is waking at the same time.

If you started solids in hopes of helping this situation, know that it usually takes some time before they are eating enough to really impact their calorie needs.

Rachel Stellaaa said...

It actually began before I started giving solids, and changing the length of his last nap and extra food during the day hasn't seemed to help. I guess I'll just have to go with the flow... and I'll let you know if I ever figure out what's going on!

Susanna said...

Valerie-
My soon to be 6 month old seems to be waking early from naps. He was a solid 2 hour napper for the first nap, 1 hour & 15 minutes for the second about anywhere b/w 45 and 60 minutes for the last nap of the day.

When he wakes early from a nap, would you suggest just leaving him in the crib for the duration of the nap? Or would you suggest getting him up and feeding? Hes not usually upset, just likes to roll around and talk and play. Occassionally, he'll fall back asleep but only for 10 minutes!

Thank you!

Plowmanators said...

It depends on how early he is waking. Rest time in the crib is better than playtime out of it. I don't think I would leave him in his crib for two hours ;), but some playtime alone in his crib will be just fine. He will also be able to make it to his next feeding time more easily if the "bringer of the food" isn't in his face.

momtobobby said...

Hi There! Again, I need your advice desperately. My 6 month old son has been having sleep troubles for a few weeks. It all started around the time he started to roll and then it got better and now it is bad again. He will not go to bed without screaming his lungs out for a good 30 minutes. I go in and give him a pacifier and he stops crying as soon as he sees me. As soon as I turn to walk away he begins screaming again. I think I have picked up some bad habits over the last month b/c we have been traveling. When we were on vacation, I would get up in the middle of the night and give him a pacifier if he started to cry. I would never do that at home, so now he wakes a couple of times at night and I would go in and give him a pacifier. I just started letting him CIO b/c I think he just wants my attention. He is definitely teething, so I don't know whether I should be comforting him or just letting him CIO. Please Help!!!! You are such a great help:)

momtobobby said...

Sorry to bother you again:) but I wanted to add that he is having a hard time with his naps as well. Like this morning he woke up at 6:50am and I fed him. He went down for a nap at 8am and woke up early at 9:15. He usually won't wake up before 10am. I went ahead and fed him at 9:15am and then put him down at 10:40am for a nap. He didn't fall asleep until 11:15am. He screamed the whole time. I went in and comforted him a few times and the same thing happened. He would calm down when I comforted him and as soon as I started to leave he would scream again. And when I say scream, I mean SCREAM. He's a loud cryer anyway, but this is much more intense.
I am about to commit myself to the looney bin:) Any help you can give is sooooo appreciated! You're the best!

Plowmanators said...

Have you tried giving him painkiller before a nap? Kaitlyn is getting two teeth in right now and had shorter naps on Sunday and Monday morning. I finally gave her painkiller before her afternoon nap yesterday and I she slept longer than usual--and I just realized I didn't give her any before the nap she is currently taking :)--anyway, if it is teething that is bothering him, that would help.

It also could be the pacifier or the traveling. I would first rule teething out. Once that is taken care of, I would get consistent with him. It will be like sleep training again, though it should resolve itself faster this time. See also this post:

Pacifiers : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/pacifiers.html

momtobobby said...

Thanks! I read your post about pacifiers and I think that the paci was the a contributor to the problem, but I stopped getting up to give him the paci in the middle of the night a little over a week ago. He CIO'd one night for maybe 3 minutes and then went back to sleep. He does not wake up in the night now, but he is now waking up at 6am every morning instead of the normal 7am wake time. I do then go in and give him the paci and turn on the mobile on and then he goes back to sleep. He'll then sleep until 7:30 or 8am. Now that I am hearing myself tell you this, I realize that I should probably let him CIO at 6am as well and not go in and give him the paci:) DUH!!:)

I have been giving him Tylenol for the last few days and that has helped big time with the naps. Thanks so much for your help! You are truly a lifesaver!

Plowmanators said...

Thanks for sharing your success! It is always nice to hear. It sounds like things improved quickly!

Brian and chelsea said...

Hi there,
You asked if that was the Salt Lake Temple in the background of my pic - it certainly is! I was one of 66 couples married that Saturday in May 2005.

Ok- here is my issue/question. And Im pretty sure its a new one for you.... at least I havent seen it as Ive scanned through all the topics... my 6 mo old has been waking in the night, and I go in to find her on he belly, seemingly unable to get back on her back. She wont sleep on her stomach. Or if she attempts to turn back onto her back, she ends up squished in an awkward position on the side of the bassinet. So I have to go in, get her back in position, and then she cries, wanting to be comforted (ie, breastfed). Usually I oblige, sometimes I dont. I just hate hearing her cry. She seems so confused when shes on her belly.
Anyways... weird situation, I know.
Background info, if you need it: she is exclusively breastfed, though we just barely started rice cereal and she loves it. She is very healthy weight and takes good naps (3 each day, usually around 90 min each)
THANKYOU!
chelsea

Plowmanators said...

One thing is see this post:

Nap Disruptions: Rolling, Standing, Crawling, etc: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/nap-disruptions-rolling-standing.html

Also, if she is sleeping in a bassinet, she might be needing more space to move around. If you don't have a crib or space for a crib, you might try a pack n' play. Kaitlyn would take a couple of naps a day in her bassinet, but by 7 months she was really too big for it to be comfortable, and she was a little girl (20%)

Shawna said...

Here is my problem.... Friday night, Sunday night, and Monday night Peyton has woking up early Friday at 6am due to the horrbile weather we were having, so I went in and comforted him/put him back to sleep. Sunday night, he woke up at 4am he didn't nap well during the day b/c we were out and about. This morning he woke up at 7 am soaking wet from a leaking diaper and screaming! So my question is if he won't go back to sleep on his own should I just let him CIO. I don't want him to get use to me coming in and comforting him/patting him b/c then he will expect it all the time. The problem with him waking up at 7am is that nap time isn't until 10:30, so he can only make it being awake for 2.5 hours in the morning, but if I put him down earlier at 10 am he will wake up early from his nap and that throws the whole day off. Also, if he naps too much he wont STTN. Here is his schedule:

8am diaper change and eat 4 oz bottle 8-9 tbsp solids

8:30-10:30 awake

10:30-12:00 nap

12:00 diaper change

12:30-1:00pm eat 4 oz bottle 8-9 tbsp solids

1:00-2:30 awake

2:30-4 nap

4 diaper change

4:30-5:00pm eat 4 oz bottle 10-11 tbsp solids

5-8 awake

8 bath

8:30 9 oz bottle

900 bed

Any suggestions? I use to put him to be at 8:30, but he was consistantly waking up early. I know BW says not to do 4 hour schedule until they are STTN 12hours, but he will not eat every 3.5 hours b/c he isn't hungry. Plus, the most he has ever slept is 11.5 hours. Now days he does 11 hours. Thanks in advance!

Shawna

Shawna said...

I should also add that my baby is 7months old.

Plowmanators said...

Keep in mind that 10 hours at night is okay for some (see -12 Hours of Sleep: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/10-12-hours-of-sleep.html).

If he is suddenly waking at night, there is going to be a reason for it. You have named a few. Try to help the reasons and once you know he is fine, you might need to do CIO at night. With my son, I think we would have needed to if we had gone in several nights in a row. With my daughter, we wouldn't need to.

Ashley said...

hi
i have a question about my almost 6 1/2 month old son (he'll be 7 months on 10/28). he has been sleeping great - 11 hours at night. we are still doing a dream feed at 10, but moving it back as we speak. i'm just afraid to drop that i think. but, now he is waking in the middle of the night. sometimes talking & going back to sleep. sometimes, he'll get back to sleep, wake an hour later, so i think he's hungry. i've fed him the last 2 nights, but he doesn't eat well in the morning. he is also waking 45-1 hour before his normal waketime of 7:30. he has 2 - 90 min. naps, and 1- 45 min. nap. do you think it's too early to try to cut down to 2 naps? i'd love to try, but don't want to if you think he still needs that sleep. thanks for any help
ashley

Plowmanators said...

Ashley, I don't know if you want to drop that nap in order to solve the night issues. My guess is either 1-a growth spurt or 2-the DF is interfering with nighttime sleep. See posts on dropping the third nap to see if you think he is ready.

Emily said...

My DD is 9 months and is doesn't need a long 3rd nap but 2nd nap ends around 4 and bedtime is around 8:00 so she can't make it the whole time.

She still needs a cat nap but should I lay her down around the same time? she'll only sleep 45min on her own or should I keep her up and lay her down towards the end of the old nap time and let her sleep 45min. then?

Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Either way would work. Try both and see what she prefers.

aswelborn said...

Thank you so much for reading this and for doing this blog! I only wish I found it sooner! I hope this isn't too long, but here goes. My 7 month old daughter has always been a phenomenal sleeper (on a 4-hr schedule since 3.5 mos) at night and taken great naps during the day - I actually used to complain that her naps were too long (2-3hrs)! That party ended about 6 -8 weeks ago though, and now I feel like we are so messed up and I have no idea how to get back on track.
Her schedule is 8-12-4-8 and has always had 2 solid 2 hr naps at least plus the 3rd nap that has been cutting down, but I started feeding her that last bottle around 7pm (putting her down about 7:45-8) because she was never ready to get up at 8am - and also in conjunction w/weaning her off the 3rd nap which she seemed ready to take to a catnap. Lately, however, she has been waking early in the morning (between 6-7) which of course throws our whole day off. Plus, she has gotten in the habit I think of taking shorter naps ever since she started rolling over a couple of months ago. She wakes up - usually happy and wanting to play-and doesn't have any desire to go back to sleep. Teething pains have complicated this. I've been giving her tylenol before naps, but not sure how much it is helping. I leave her in there until she starts wailing. She isn't hungry. I've tried going in and I've tried completely staying away. We did CIO at 8 wks and she was totally sleep trained in 48hrs...initially I went back to this, but it hasn't worked at all.

This is what her day usually looks like now:
6:30/7ish - waking up early. back and forth trying to get her back to sleep
7:45 or so finally getting her out of bed, breakfast
9:30 she is ready for nap. I try to keep her up til 10 her normal naptime. either way she is only sleeping for about an hour
11:00 this is the earliest I get her out of bed. Started doing lunch at this time (combo scheduling) thinking she just wanted a shorter a.m. nap and longer afternoon nap...problem is she really isn't ready to eat and doesn't finish her meal - which makes her wake early again. I know this is a no-no, but I tried giving her 2oz of formula right before her nap if she didn't finish lunch, but it didn't help her sleep longer either.
1:00 nap. At first this was turning into a good long nap (2-2.5hrs), but that only lasted a few days. Now she is waking after an hour. I try to keep her in bed as long as possible, but we usually end up having some waketime before her next feeding.
3:30 or so-dinner. After all this she gets tired and cranky and ready for a 30-45 min catnap by 5:00.
6:45 - she has been ready for this bottle a little early because of the way the rest of the day went. Then she ends up going to bed about 7:45 and waking early the next day...and we start all over.
I know babies cut down their need for sleep, but this is pretty drastic! Her nighttime sleep is at least an hour shorter and she is only napping for 1.5-2.5 hrs TOTAL in the day...and they are in the form of catnaps.

I have poured over your blog for a month and tried a million things but nothing is working. I've read all your stuff on 45-min intruder, disruptions, waking early - EVERYTHING! Is there something I'm missing? It's been 2 months since my baby followed her schedule. I need a plan to get us back on track, but I don't even know where to begin anymore. Can you please help me?!

Plowmanators said...

It sounds like you have a lot of factors going on here. My guess is the time change really threw things off. By her waking early, it is making it so she is overly tired when it comes time for nap. If she used to wake at 8, then was down by 10, but now she is waking at 6:30 and down by 9:30...that is an hour too long for her to have a successful nap. Then the cycle just repeats itself all day.

I would work on that morning waketime. Either see if you can get her waking later, or just change your morning waketime to the time she is waking. (say 7).

Check the blog label "Time change" to see ideas about changing waketime. If that doesn't work, just change your desired waketime to a time she can reach. Once that is set, the rest of the day can be put in place.

aswelborn said...

Thank you so much for responding! I was afraid it might be a time change thing. So, since I currently keep her in bed until as close to 8 as possible (every so often she does go back to sleep), do you think I should instead get her out of bed and feed her shortly after she wakes and try to extend that by 15 mins everyday? Changing her waketime to 7 would really make church and some other activities pretty impossible, so I'd really like to get it back to 8 if I can! :) Thank you so much!

Plowmanators said...

a slow approach to trying to move things might make it easier to accomplish. It is worth a shot!

aswelborn said...

Thank you so much for your help! I'll let you know how it turns out.

Kendall's Dad said...

Hello all.. babywise Dad here. In fact, I think I take it more seriously than my wife does... but we've been rewarded with a terrific little boy.

Here's our problem, he naps well.. although inconsistently. We're on a 4 hour eating schedule but his naps range from an hour and 15 minutes to 1.45. Rarely do we see a 2 hour nap.

Our problem is at night... when putting him down for the night. He is now protesting and will cry for as long as we let him, with the occasional checking in and patting him. He will quit crying the moment we enter the room... but as soon as he sees us make a movement towards the door he starts again. It's like a separation anxiety thing... and it's becoming an every night thing.

We have tried the CIO, going in to check on him at 10, then 15, then 20 minutes... with no success. In fact, he gets so worked up that he throws up.. and we then have to change his clothes, his sleep sack, and his bedding.. along with a bath.. and start the whole process again.

Any thoughts? We're find with his inconsistent naps.. we adapt.. but this night "protest" is wearing on us.

Kendall's Dad said...

I forgot to mention, our son is 1 week shy of 8 months. We've had our occasional nap problems.. which weren't to trying.. but his night time sleep has been incredibly consistent. I'd say we've had to get up with him 10 times in five months... and half of that was a bout with his first ear infection and the subsequent aftermath.

We swaddles for the first three months, than alternating arm out for naps.. but the nights we noticed he'd wake himself up with his hands. We bought a Sleep bag, called a Peke Moe, which solved the hands problem immediately.

Now we've graduated to a sleeveless sleep sack.. with mittens on his hands. We're about to drop the mittens because he now just pulls them off with his lower teeth. LOL!!!

Plowmanators said...

Hi Kendall's Dad, I agree with you, from your description it sounds like it might be a separation anxiety thing. Neither of my kids have had obvious SA, so I unfortunately don't have advice on that. I will mention some thingsi I think might work:

1-Be sure it isn't teething or some other pain issue. Since your only experience with something like this has been really with an ear infection, just be sure that this isn't a similar situation. Since he already has teeth, it might not be that, but if he is getting his top teeth for the first time, he might possibly have more sensitive gums up there. Many people have one row that is more sensitive than the other.

2-He might be happier once his mittens are gone.

3-Be sure he gets good time with Mommy each day and good time with Daddy each day. It doesn't have to be long, but make it quality.

4-Play peek-a-boo with him so he can be sure to understand object permanance.

5-He might be young to be affected by this, but consider couch time if you don't do it. For older kids, it has often been found sleep problems arise because of lack of couch time. Make sure he sees Mom and Dad love each other and are fully committed to each other.

6-Make sure you have a steady and consistent night routine before bed (it sounds like you do, but just to be sure).

7-Make sure he has independent play each day. I think this is one of the best ways to avoid SA. However, some kids will get SA even with consistent independent play.

Once you have run through everything and are sure it is a separation anxiety issue, I think I would try to be sensitive to that and work on preventing him from getting so worked up. Also, do some research on SA to see how you can help it. Some will say to ride it out, but some will have tips to speed up the process.

Machelle said...

I am not sure where to post this but it seems this may fit best. I am having a hard time with my 5 mo old (3 mo adjusted). When she eats during the day she only eats 2-3 oz because she gets so preoccupied with what is around her and she wants to talk and smile. I can not make her eat more and she just cries when I try. Then she will be hungry an hour later! She is not sleeping through the night yet. Her sister (twin) still gets up as well at night. I know they are not eating enough during the day and this is why. What can I do about the disruptions during eating? The tv is not on, it is quiet, just the light is on! Also, the other one is a chronic 45 minute napper. I let her cry it out most of the time as long as it does not wake her sister up. This has been going on for a long time now. I thought it was reflux at first but I do not believe that to be the case any more as it does not act up as bad as it used to.

Plowmanators said...

Machelle, see this post:

Nursing Woes : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/nursing-woes.html

See the blog lable "45 minute intruder" for ideas with that.

Heidi said...

My 6 month old has been waking early for naps for atleast a month now. She wakes up after about an hour and talks to herself and plays in her crip for about 10-15 minutes, then usually falls back asleep. Sometimes she doesn't though. I've tried everything...I've lengthened waketime, shortened waketime, fed her, EVERYTHING. I feel like its been going on too long for it to be a phase, and I know she needs the sleep bc she will get cranky in the evenings is she hasn't napped well. We just dropped the catnap, and her waketime is up to about 2 1/2 hours, which I feel like is REALLY long for a 6 month old. She sleeps great at night, 11.5-12 hours. Any advice? Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Heidi,

I assume you have seen this post:

Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html

see also the blog label: 45 minute intruder

Heidi said...

Yes, I have, and I've done all of those things. I've also tried tylenol to see if she's teething and that's not it either. she's waking up happy so I'm thinking maybe she just needs 1.5 hours naps now?

Heidi said...

Ah! Its getting worse! Now she's waking up about an hour earlier in the morning too. She wakes up talking and happy so I normally leave her in there for awhile. She's still getting about 11 hours at night, which I know is okay. Its just confusing bc she has always been a 2 hour napper and slept 12 hours at night. Does that change as they get older and need less sleep? Should I just get her up earlier in the morning when she wakes up, or should I push her bedtime back a little later? I personally would rather sleep later in the morning but I know sometimes putting them to bed too late can make them wake even earlier. I just want to make sure its not uncommon for all of a sudden naps and nighttime sleep length to change, and not bc of something I'm doing. She is happy and alert, so I guess her sleep needs are just decreasing. Any thoughts?

KJackson213 said...

Gosh all this makes me feel like Im not so crazy after all. My 6.5 month old has been having AWFUL sleeping issues lately. She used to do 11-11.5 at night with no interuptions, and 2, 1 hr 40 min naps and a 45 min naps per day.

Now she's waking 5X in the middle of the night, and taking 45 minute naps again! I KNOW her optimal waketime is 1 hr 40 min- 1 hr 50 min, as far as her naps go (bvc usually shell take a good nap if we can get her waketime length correct). But she's also waking at 5 am...waketime's at 6, so by the time she goes down for her first nap, shes already overtired.

Usually though when I get her at 615, shes on the verge of going back to sleep so I think Im just going to let her go back to sleep and then get her at 7 (she only sleeps for 45 more minutes when she does that).

You might could try something similiar, Heidi!

Heidi,

This is the worst answer in the world I know but since you already cut out the catnap, I would say the problems are just due to a new awareness. Ive gone over and over every issue it could be with my LO and I cant figure it out. Im hoping it will just... get better.

Sorry to hijack your site Val!

KJackson213 said...

Heidi,

One more thing. The other possibility is, she needs the catnap. If she's waking early, and this just started, and you just dropped the catnap, Id reintroduce the catnap. If my LO's up longer than 2.5 hrs at night, she'll wake at night. But she does that anyway right now ;-).

Heidi said...

So I figured it out. Maybe this is wrong of me to do, but its working so I'm going to keep doing it. I figured out she only needs 11 hours of sleep at night. If she gets 12 hours at night, she won't nap. If she only gets 11 hours, she takes 2 full 2 hour naps without waking up and never gets cranky. WEIRD. She got to bed late one night because we were busy, and I woke her up at her normal time and she napped great the next day. Needless to say, we have changed her schedule and now she goes to bed 30 min. later and wakes up 30 min. earlier in the morning, and we've had no problems.

Plowmanators said...

Heidi, I am glad you got it figured out. That sounds perfectly fine to me. 11 hours is no problem at night.

KJackson, no worries. I think it is great for readers to share their experiences.

Mary said...

My son wakes at 4 am every morning for the past 3 weeks and I hope you can help. He is a year and 1 week old (53 weeks old). He starts with a complain and it escales into a scream by 5:30. If I do get him before 5:30 he wont go back to sleep no matter what I try and he only wants to play. He's asleep naping at 8:30 and again at 1/1:30 for 45 min to 1.5 hrs each nap. He then is asleep at 7-7:15 at night. He only occassionally fusses before falling asleep for the afternoon nap only. Morning nap and evening bed time with no fussing at all. He eats 6 oz expressed breast milk and about 4 oz baby food at 6:30am, 10:30am, 3:00pm and 6:30pm. I would like for him to wake up at 5:30am. Any ideas?

Mary said...

Sorry..I forgot to say that no he's not teething or sick. Thanks for your help!

Plowmanators said...

Mary,

It is hard to say the reason he is waking so early. There are so many factors for a child that age. Is he too hot or cold? Is the sun rising? Is there some noise going on? Has there been some disruption to his routine or life lately?

He also might be overly tired by night time. If he naps at 1 for 45 min-1.5 hours, that means he has a pretty long waketime before bed for most kids that age. But if he was doing that before the three week disruptions just fine, then it probably isn't that.

Basically, you want to think back to when he slept until 5:30 and when he started at 4 AM and find the difference.

CSterlingWalker said...

I've posted here before in the sleep problems segment... when my then 8 month old would refuse to go to sleep and cry until he got so upset he vomited. Just like everything else here.. it was a phase that lasted a week.

Something weird now... at 13 months... my son now is fighting naps and bedtime but is doing something crazy. He's complaining, and crying, when we leave the room at bedtime but settles down. Then.. he just refuses to lay down... and will become so tired that his head will bob back and forth and he'll catch himself as he's beginning to tip over. He did it last night for 45 minutes.. tonight for 20. Stood on his knees tonight and got so tired that his head was bobbing all over the place and he finally fell forward onto his stomach.

Any thoughts?

Rachel Stella said...

CSterlingWalker
It sounds to me like it is just a phase too. Either he is going through a period of stubborness or he is trying out some new skills of his. I'd have to say that the best thing for you to do during this time is to persevere and stick with your normal routine. He'll probably either give up on the idea of you coming to get him from his crib or he'll get over the excitement of whatever new skill he's learning.

Plowmanators said...

CSterlingWalker,

I agree with Rachel. I would just leave him be and let him figure things out on his own. I assume you have a video monitor and that is how you know he is doing this. That is a bad side of video monitors...sometimes you know too much :)

Sara said...

Please help me! My son is almost 6 months old and he is still not sleeping through the night. I have been following BW since he was a newborn and from the beginning I could never get him on a 3 hr schedule. He is still eating every 2 hrs even now! The problem is that he only takes 1hr naps. So naturally when he'd wake up, I'd feed him so that would make his schedule to be every 2 hrs. When he started getting older I would try really hard to hold off his feeding to 3 hrs but then his wake time would be too long and then he'd want to fall asleep nursing. Now that he's older, he'll only nurse one side so I know he's not getting a full feeding. I do everything I can to get him to nurse the other side but he just turns his head away from me and isn't interested. Then an hr later, he wants to nurse. I realize that he's snacking at this point so what can I do to get him to take his full feeding??
Because he's not sleeping through the night yet he is still waking up every 2-3 hrs. Sometimes I try and give him a paci or turn him over but he's just mad and wants to nurse. We've let him cry it out but it really seems that it just gets worse. The most we've done is 30 min. Do we need to go longer than that? I'm also fearful that he's going wake up my 21 month old as well so I really don't like having to hear him scream it out.
Please help me in these areas. I'm worn out and exhausted.
Thank you,
Sara

davidsarah311 said...

I've been reading your blog since my little one was born. (I think she is about the same age as McKenna-my little girl was born April 2nd.) Anyway, I've read everything I could find about 6 month sleep problems. I was just hoping to get your help...

My little girl seems to go through 2 or 3 week cycles. She has a bad night when she wakes up many times-she was awake off & on from 1-5:30 this morning-and then we will deal with a couple of weeks of frequent night wakings. She takes an 8oz. bottle at around 6:30 and gets a 2oz. dreamfeed at 9. I was trying to cut out the dreamfeed, but should I be upping it instead? or is the dreamfeed interfering with night sleep? I don't know how to tell the difference...I'm not feeding her at night when she wakes. I tried to comfort her with the paci last night to make sure that it wasn't hunger. She was soothed, but wanted to play, so I put her back in bed. I do not usually use the paci at night & don't replace it during naps.

Her naps are inconsistent at best-a lot of 45 minute ones with an occasional hour and 15 minutes.

Do you have any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

We have started rice cereal about a week ago, but she doesn't really care for it... :)

M said...

Hi ladies,

I am having a sleeping problem. My son was taking 2 hour naps and only getting up once after his dreamfeed at 11 pm. Now he is getting up a few times after 11 pm and his naps are a little as 20 mins. I do have to say today his second nap was a full hour. I'm not sure on what is going on. Please Help!

Plowmanators said...

davidsarah311, I would wonder if she wakes because of a growth spurt? That is about how often growth spurts are supposed to happen (3-4 weeks). When she does it, I would try feeding her more in the daytime.

I would make sure she isn't cold or something with the weather changing. Brayden and McKenna are both very sensitive to temperature in the room while sleeping.

Plowmanators said...

M, what is his age?

Sarah said...

Oh Do I need your help! I have been reading your blog and doing BW since my son was 3 weeks old. Let me take this time to thank you! Your blog has always been there when I didn't know what to do! You have been more than a blessing to me and my son. However, we are in desperate need of your advice. My son was on a perfect schedule from 2 months till he turned 5 months. We are on a 3-4hr schedule. He use to take (2) 1.5- 2hr naps always and a cat nap around 5:30 pm. Once he turned 5 month old all his naps turned to 45 min. Then he started turning over swaddle so I had to stop swaddling him. He now goes down and falls asleep instantly but wakes 25 minutes into his nap crying!This has been going on for 3 weeks now. I feel like I am going crazy! I have tried everything! Tylenol 20 min before naps (even though he shows no signs of teething), I have let him CIO for an hour, and I have also tried the pick up-put down method! Nothing has worked. By the time bedtimes roles around we are both a complete mess. This 25 min napping has caught me so of guard. His waketime is about 1:45min-2hr and he doesn't usually have a problem going to sleep but staying asleep seems impossible! Please help us!

davidsarah311 said...

Thank you for your ideas. It might have been a growth spurt. I'm dealing with the same thing again right now. I tried to give her extra in her bottle yesterday (she takes 6 oz-3 times & an 8oz. before bed), but she wasn't willing. She was up for 1 1/2 hours last night-I checked her once and she was fine. I eventually went in there to hold her because I wasn't sure what was wrong. I sat in her rocker with her, but she just wanted to play. During the couple of hours that I was holding her, she did drift off a few times but then jerked back awake. Eventually, at 1am, I put her back in bed, she was awake, and I didn't hear a peep out of her until 7am. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I do know that it's a problem to go in and get her after letting her cry for a while, I just trained her to cry that long, but I don't want to leave her if something is wrong. I guess it could be separation anxiety-she stops crying as soon as I come in the room. She is very clingy throughout the day too. I really wish I could get this right! She puts herself to sleep for naps-she has them at 8:30 & 12:30, about 1:15 a piece. (Lately the morning nap is sometimes 2 hours.) I dropped the late afternoon nap several weeks ago since she started getting up at night again & we thought she might be getting too much sleep. (This is a baby that used to cry in her swing when she was sleepy.)

I need some advice-what am I doing wrong?

It would be helpful if I had my husband's support too, he told me that he was going in her room last night if I didn't. :( I felt like such a bad mom!

Plowmanators said...

Sarah, I might try swaddling with just one arm out to see if that helps. It can be hard to go from swaddling to not all at once.

Plowmanators said...

davidsarah311, Does she have gas? Is there something that is bothering her that she eats? Does she need a bigger diaper on at night? Have you looked at the nighttime sleep problems post and the Naps: Troubleshooting post? Those both have lots of ideas.

davidsarah311 said...

Yes, I've looked through the nap troubleshoots & I wish I could figure out what it was. She hasn't gotten up again in about a week & a half. I switched her to fleece pajamas, so maybe she was cold! I feel a little silly if that's what it was....we'll see. Thanks for your help!

Plowmanators said...

You might be surprised. Brayden and McKenna are both (still) that sensitive to temperature.

If it doensn't work out, let me know and I will post your question as a "help a reader out" post.

davidsarah311 said...

Unfortunately, it didn't work. She was in a pair of fleece pajamas and a cotton wrap-she didn't feel cold to me, but she was up again last night. I went in to check on her & held her for an hour, but she just wanted to play. I eventually put her back in bed and she went to sleep after another 20 minutes of crying.

She has never really had a gas problem. I'm still introducing foods one a week. She wears the extra protection diapers at night & they don't leak through-I smother her behind in butt paste & vaseline before bed.

I feel so discouraged. We're going out of town for Christmas and I know that it will make things even worse when we get back....

SAmom said...

I hope you can help me – we are having a holiday disruption deluxe. We have been away from home with family for almost 3 weeks and my DD’s (9mo) routine is so disrupted that I wouldn’t know where to start to get it back to normal again (in spite of me doing my utmost to keep to it).

The situation is as follows: Night sleep was 11.5 hours (before disruption), now <10 hours. Day sleeps (x2)in total was 3h:15min now <2 hours – she has started to skip the morning nap!! (Cries and cries and does not seem to be able to fall asleep). And no more SSTN! I must add that she is teething but it is not the 1st time.

I have read all your posts on disruptions and 5-8 months sleeping problems. Couldn't find anything except that you say a holiday can be disruptive to a routine.
1) Where/how do I start to rectify this when we get back to home?
2) Please tell me it is possible to reinstate the morning nap again. I really hope so, surely it is too early to officially drop it?
3) I read somewhere in this blog that it can be due to being overtired that she wakes up so early in the morning, could that be possible?
Thanks a million!

davidsarah311 said...

SAmom,
I'm definitely NOT an expert and I know that you are looking for plowmanators help, but I just went through a similar thing with my daughter, who is also 9 months. It seemed to help if we put her to bed very early. Dr. Weissbluth, author of Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, suggests this. He says as early as 5:30pm, but we never tried that early. We had her in bed by 6:45, at the latest. If we put her in bed later, she gets up earlier. So, it's always something you could try! I know it messes with your schedule, but it sounds like it's already messed up anyway! :)

Plowmanators said...

SAmom,

1) I would start with having regular eating times (eat at the same times each day). Put her down for naps regularly. Make sure you start the day at the same time each day and have bedtime at the same time each night. I suggest you review the post "getting a consistent schedule"

2)it is possible, and yes, she is too young to drop it.

3)definitely. This would be especially true if she isn't sleeping well during the day. Sleep begets sleep, so non-sleep begets non-sleep.

Stefanie C. said...

Hi, I have a 5 month old. I have been doing Baby Wise methods since he was about 4 weeks old. He started sleeping through the night at 8 weeks. We are now facing terrible nap times. He goes down easy when I see his tired cues. But he only sleeps about 20-40 minutes and wakes. I try changing diaper, rocking him a little, and putting back to sleep, but he cries and cries without falling back asleep.

Our last appointment dr. said he is not gaining enough weight. Only a pound in 55 days. He went from 55percentile to 25 percentile. I had been on a 3-3.5 cycle. He was screaming a lot before naps, and I would let him cry. But now I feel I was reading his cues wrong, and maybe he was really hungry. :(

Now I am doing a 2 hour cycle, because I want to boost my milk supply and fatten the LO up. He sleeps about 9-10 hours at night still.

What do you recommend for improving the short naps? Or do I just keep him up until next nap time? Also, I am afraid of doing too much CIO because it may burn too many calories...

Feeling a bit lost and confused on what is best for my baby right now. His weight gain is priority to me, though.

Plowmanators said...

If you are feeding every two hours, are you still feed, play, sleep, or are you feed, play, feed, sleep?

Stefanie C. said...

I put him down for a nap when I see his sleep signals...which only sometimes follows the "feed, play, sleep" routine. I would say, more often he follows the "feed, play, feed, sleep" routine.

Plowmanators said...

If you are feeding him every two hours, you can only have short naps, correct? He might be able to pull to a 1.5 hour nap sometimes.

See the "naps: Troubleshooting revised and updated" post (put that in the google search bar at the top right of this blog). It will give you ideas.

In your situation, just try to make sure he isn't overly tired.

If your supply is able to make enough for him, then you shouldn't have to feed very long on a two hour schedule for it to catch up; in fact, it should by now. If it isn't, I would make sure you are doing everything else needed to keep that up. There is a post titled "milk supply limit" on this blog.

Once your supply is up, you can go to a 2.5-3 hour schedule, but I wouldn't move past a 3 hour schedule right now.

Clint said...

I am a new follower of your blog. My son turned 9 months old today, and we have been doing Babywise from the beginning. My son was a great sleeper and very consistent with naps and bedtime until almost a month ago. I am getting desperate for answers/advice, and that is how I found you.

This was his schedule prior to the problems: 7:30ish wake-up & breastfeed/solids, 9:15 nap, 11:30 breastfeed/solids, 1:30 nap (each nap 1&1/2-2hr), 3:30 breastfeed, 5:00 snack, 6:30 breastfeed/solids, 7:30 bedtime. Just before he turned 8 months I dropped his dreamfeeding that was at 10pm, and he adjusted by waking up slightly earlier around 7-7:15. For naps and at bedtime he would usually cry but no more than 10 minutes then he would sleep great.

A week after the 8 month mark he started cutting 4 upper teeth and 1 lower (first 2 teeth at 5 months). This is where the problem started. He is not cranky when he is awake, but teething apparently makes it really hard for him to sleep. I have a really hard time getting him down for naps and especially bedtime, sometimes taking an hour to get him to sleep even though he seems sleepy. We have tried several things (giving tylenol/motrin before sleep, patting & soothing every 10 minutes, CIO) A month later this is still happening, though not at every sleep time...it's probably 50/50 going down easy/crying & screaming. Many of the naps are only lasting ~40 minutes as well. At night once he is down he does fine. We've only had 3 nights that he woke crying in the middle of the night because of teething pain. He is, however, waking up crying around 6am most mornings, still sleepy and not acting hungry but won't go back to sleep when left on his own or when we try to sooth. I'm still waiting until 7-7:15 to feed him.

I thought this would pass in a week or so, but it's been a month and even tonight it took an hour to get him to sleep at bedtime. Should I try adjusting his schedule, and if so how? Or do I just press on and wait for all these teeth to come in and hope he falls back into his routine? I just want my consistent sleeper that goes down without a screaming fuss back. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Plowmanators said...

Clint, I wouldn't just assume it is teeth. I would look into some other stuff, too. There is a post titled "5-8 month sleep disruptions" that might help you. He also might be having a growth spurt. If you think that is the case, feed him a bit extra at meals or feed him more often in the day for a few days.

Clint said...

I just thought I would update the situation from my previous post. Teeth no longer seemed to be bothering him, but sleep was still problematic. We added a snack (usually yogurt and ham pieces) after the morning nap (around 11) and started having him CIO at naps at bedtime. A week in to this he is now going down for naps with 2 minutes or less of crying and most mornings is sleeping until 7:30 again. Thanks for your thoughts.

Plowmanators said...

Thanks for the update Clint! It is helpful for readers to see what worked.

LEM said...

My daughter just turned 5 months and I have had nap issues since 4 months. They will not go away and I don't know what to do anymore! Our ideal schedule is 7/11/3/630 with bed at 730. She currently wakes at 645am. Now I know that's not bad bur those 15 min drive me crazy. I never know if I should count waketime from 645 when she actually woke or 7am when I actually got her. I've done both but I haven't decided if its made a difference. Waketime has been 1 hr 45 min. She will sometimes complain a little when I put her down for naps but usually she goes down no problem. She always wakes at 45-60 min and hangs out. After about an hour she will start to get upset cause she's been up so long. I always leave her there until her next feeding but then I have no idea what time I should put her down! The same things happens for her second nap.

Now sometimes she will sleep longer or maybe go back to sleep for another 10 min or so after waking. There really is no clear patten. Honestly I never know what to expect for her naps and this has been going on for over a month. It drives me crazy because i want to go on outings where here naps will be disrupted and I keep saying "no let's wait untill she gets settled into her schedule" but it never happens!

I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I almost always had to wake my older son from his naps but I can't get things right with her. She has never wanted to take her 3rd nap all together. I'd say she actually cat naps about 1 out of 10 times that I put het down.

She also has been diagnosed with reflux since a newborn and we've had her on prevacid. Her reflux seems better but her daytime sleep got worse. Since I've heard prevacid can cause insomnia, I am weaning her off her meds. Hoping this may be the curlpit. She is now taking only 1/2 a tablet in the am when she used to also take one at night.

I just don't know what to do. I feel like a babywise failure! Your kids were are such great sleepers and I know you've mentioned some kids are just better sleepers than others. But how can it be that ALL of your kids are? You odviously know what your doing. I really feel that babywise makes great sleepers when done correctly and you are proof of that! What am I doing wrong??

On a side note she is barely rolling yet so she is not very physicly active during waketime. Could this have something to do with it? Should I just have my set naptimes and not worry about when she actually woke? That would make things easier on me at least. Right now I kept her up for 2 hours. She fussed a little when putting her down but slept for1 hr 20. So much better. But she woke crying cause it looked like she was stuck on her side. I rolled her back over and she has not stopped crying. Help!

Plowmanators said...

LEM,

The first thing I would do is try a shorter waketime. Take it down to 1.5 hours for a while. And also keep in mind that different times of day can need different waketime lengths. See the blog label "optimal waketime" for help on this and also to see polls on averages for your baby's age.

Also, keep in mind that Brayden was not a good sleeper until he was 6.5 months old. Until then, he took short naps.

She could possibly need more stimulation during waketime.

She might also need a slightly longer waketime instead of shorter.

Think back to her at 4 months. What changed? did schedule change at all? If something changed, try removing that change. If nothing changed, then try adding waketime in 5 minute increments.

It also might be a "wonder week" issue--see that blog label for more info.

jpjaynes said...

Help! Like so many others here I am having nighttime problems with my 6 1/5 month old. I have been doing babywise since birth and she has been sleeping through the night since 9 weeks. Then at 5 months she started getting up in the middle of the night to eat. I realized after a few weeks she was hungry and it was time to add solids..this helped her sleep through the night once a week or so but no true fix. She cut her first teeth at 5 months at it does not seem to be teething. Sometimes she is legitimately hungry and other times not so much. I hate to not feed her if she is hungry but this has been going on for almost two months now and I am seriously concerned about a bad longterm habit forming! I have tested food and it is not food allergies. Occasionally she will go back to sleep on her own and I wait to give her a chance to before I check on her (usually 10 min or so). I have tried CIO and that either leads to her falling asleep after 30 min of screaming her head off and then waking again only hours later ..over and over ...or crying for over an hour until I just can't let her cry anymore. I am willing to do ANYTHING as long as it will work. Sometimes she is waking up multiple times a night...it is not consistent times so I don't think the actual time is a habit...sometimes it is 12, 1, 3, 4 or 5! I have never dropped the 10 PM dream feed because we never got to that point before this started happening. She goes to bed at 6, feeding at 10 and used to sleep till 7. She will sleep till 7 still with a middle of the night feed. Help! Oh...and she is a great napper..only two naps at 9 am and 1 pm for 1 hr-2.5...never more than 2.5

Plowmanators said...

It really does sound like hunger. Is she eating a good amount of solids in the night? The reason is sounds like hunger is that she is not sleeping well unless she eats. I would work to make sure she is getting food in the day that she needs.

But do also look into possibilities that she is cold or that the dreamfeed is disrupting her or something else that might be leading her to wake up then have a hard time falling back asleep.

Lindsay said...

I tried to post something but I dont see it here. Sorry If I post the same message twice.

I have a 5.5 month old and 3.5 year old. I need help fixing some issues. I have been on your BLOG most nights trying to solve my 5.5 month sleep problems. Its not working. I am in tears most days because I am so frustrated. Its taking a tole on the whole family. She was doing well and now not so much. This system worked for my 3.5 year old but my 5.5 month old doesn't want to cooperate.

Here is what we are dealing with

1) Her awake time is about 2 hours. If I put her bed sooner then she just talks and talks for 30-45 mins. She normally can put herself to sleep within 15-20mins. Should I put her to bed later? I dont want her to be exhausted and overtired.

2) She wakes up 7am most days. However that has been getting earlier and earlier, which ruins the day. Especially if my oldest daughter has preschool. I try to feed her when she wakes early but she wont eat unless its been like 11-12 hours.

3) 45 min Naps: She was doing 45 mins in morning (bc of preschool I think), then 2- 1.5h naps in the day and sleeping 10hours at night. Now they are all 45 mins. She wakes happy at every nap. If she is grumpy she normally puts herself back to sleep.

4) She does hear her older sibling during the day and her father waking up during the morning at 6am.

5) She goes to bed between 8-9pm. I realize its late but my husband only sees her for 2 hours. It might be why she is waking earlier and throwing off the day

6) 4 hour schedule...I know its too soon because she isn't sleeping well enough. However, she wont eat sooner. She just cries and pushes the bottle away. I think I need another feed but she wont have any of it. How do I do it? She wont eat if you wake her for a dream feed. Should I decrease the amount of formula so she will eat sooner? I dont want that to cause more problems. On top of that we added cereal, which she hates, and a few veggies, which she loves but doesn't eat very much. Could it be causing her tummy ache? She doesn't seem bothered.

7) She is a easy going, always happy and active 6 month old. She wakes happy always (laughing, cooing, blowing raspberries, kicking the bed) and if not then she sleeps. Is it possible she needs less sleep at night and during the day then most and I should just accept it and it might click down the road?.

8) I need help with a schedule that takes preschool into account. I need to be in the car at 8:40am, back home at 9:05, back in the car at 10:45. It means that her nap needs to fall in that time period.

9) when can they go to set nap times instead of wake time?

Please help I am at a loss. I dont know what to do first. I dont know what kind of schedule to aim for.

Lindsay said...

Just thought I would add an update before you had a chance to respond.

Nighttime issues seem to be resolved. I put her to bed 1/2 hour earlier and things are much better at night. On top of that we moved her crib to the other side of the room so she wouldn't hear my husband getting ready for work. There was a wall between our closet and her bed. She is now not waking early. She is going from 8:30-7am. One day she was really tired we fed her and put her to bed early and she slept from 8:00pm-7:30am.

She is still doing 45 min naps. Most of the time she does take a 45 min nap in the morning, longer nap after lunch (50/50 it could be 45mins) and a catnap before bed. I cant quite figure out her morning nap. I tried your nap fix putting her to bed 15 min before but she still talked and talked and fell asleep again right around the 2hour mark and slept only 45 minutes. She woke up happy as a clam. She has on occasion slept passed the 45 minute mark when she woke really early.

I have a couple of thoughts I dont know how accurate they are. 1) She has gotten used to this nap to be short because of preschool. 2) She eats lunch and dinner well. She wont eat cereal and we haven't started fruit yet so I wonder when she starts eating breakfast will that nap lengthen. I tried upping her milk for that bottle but wont take anymore. 3) Its not a self soothing issue or transition issue because she does it fine in the afternoon. Maybe I need to add more time but she already does 1h 45min to 2hours?. Should I just do set naps and see if she adjusts?

She is still trying to eat every 3.5-4hours. I tried to add another bottle and she just flatly refused.

I would like to fix it because it just disrupts our morning so we cant do anything.

Plowmanators said...

Lindsay,

1) I would stick with no more than 2 hours for the first two waketimes. Later ones can be longer.

3) It could be a growth spurt. It could be because of several things as listed in this post. It could be that she has gotten used to napping 45 minutes if that is what happens because of preschool stuff.

The first nap of the day is the most important nap for this age group. If that nap is too short, it will most likely affect other naps by making them too short because of overtiredness. There might not be anything you can do about it, but know that might help you relax about it.

4) Have you tried some sort of white noise?

5) There is a good chance you are right. Again, likely something you don't want to change right now, but it can tell you why it is happening and give you more patience for dealing with it all.--oh, see you resolved that.

6) The 4 hour could help you out possibly. Some moms report the 4 hour solving their sleep issues and 45 minute nap problems. In most cases, this is not the solution, but it is the solution in some cases. In your case, you might not have anything to lose by trying it out and seeing what happens.

7) 45 minute naps aren't what the child needs--but she might only need 10 hours at night. But do see the posts on Chronic 45 minute naps. The author is a good friend of mine and her daughter is now 3.5 and totally fine. Sometimes there are rare cases where this is what happens.

8) So now I see she is waking at 7 AM. You are home at 9:05. I would put her down immediately, then get her up as late as you can before getting back in the car. Then feed her when you get back home and put her back down for a nap about two hours after you woke her.

9) It seems like most can do this by 8 months.

Good luck!

Kelsey said...

Hi Val! I've never commented before but I could really use your advice. I have a 6 month old baby girl and she has always been a great sleeper. I've had her on BW since day one and she's always done great for naps and nights until recently. When she hit about 5 months old she started waking up quite a bit. She's been teething and having teething pains for MONTHS now but still no teeth. She's not sick, is warm enough, has a dark room, etc but she still wakes. She is on the 8am to 8pm schedule for a 6 month old with 3 naps. Her first nap is usually 2.5 hours, 2nd is about 2 hours, and 3rd is about an hour. She goes to sleep so well and during the day she's napping great, during the night she falls asleep really easily and happily but then wakes up about 4 hours after her dreamfeed. sometimes she wakes up just cooing and talking, and sometimes its crying. I usually let her CIO during this wake up and then she ALWAYS wakes again at around 4am or so and then I feel bad and go in to nurser her. I've been only nursing her for a few minutes for quite a while now hoping her body would adjust to eating less and then stop waking but its not working. I don't know what to do. Would you recommend me letting her CIO all night and not going to her? She's healthy (95%) and eating three solid meals a day. She doesn't need that feeding...her doctor even told me so! I just don't know what to do. Please help!!! Thanks so much!!

Plowmanators said...

Kelsey,

My first step would be to cut the feeding, but try to comfort her without it. Some babies won't accept that from mom (the milk source), so dad might need to do that.

I would try upping what she wears a level for night to see if that helps. Maybe adding socks or a onesie under her pjs.

The trick is figuring out why she is waking, which can only be done through trial and error if you don't know for sure. Condsider noises, temperature, ...one by one go through the many reasons.

But it could also be a "wonder week" thing. See that blog label for more on that.

lifeimages. said...

I have decided to write and ask for your help. PLEASE HELP!

I have a 6 month old who, admittedly, has been spoiled until now. I am ready to do this CIO but really I am at a loss where to start because it seems (after reading a million of your posts) that I have more than one problem on my hands. Here;s my situation:

1. She seems to no longer nap longer than 45 minutes.

2. She is waking in the night once or twice, I give her a pacifier but feed her at the 5:30 wake up (then back to bed until the 7am wake time.

3. Because she's not doing great at night, I went to a 3 hour feed time again just to make sure she wasn't hungry at night. This has caused another downward spiral I think. She's not feeding real great. Just fussy. Sometimes cries during and after feeding so now I am questioning my milk production? Or could it be shes not REALLY hungry at the 3 hour mark, if it was 4 maybe she'd be hungrier and feed better?

So my question is really this: WHERE DO I START? Would you try and fix the naps (hoping that longer naps will actually fix the night problem). Or would you focus on stretching out the feeding to 3.5 hours hoping she'll feed better? Would you feed at night at all at this age?

Side notes: no teeth that I can see, no solids yet, has been a very happy baby thus far but now with the fussiness getting really attached to her pacifier, was swaddling until just recently, she sleeps in her own crib and is actually very good at GETTING to sleep at each nap (well, with a pacifier).

I would just love some direction, I am ready to do this full on, just want to be wise and confident in where to start.

THANK YOU (in advance)

lifeimages. said...

update...

Maybe this thread is older and you can't see the comments??? I thought I would post again (with an update since last week) and see if you can please offer your advice...

She's on solids now...

Still waking in the night (even with a dream feed)...

Consistent wake time but now I'm back to about 3.5 hour schedule (instead of 3, she just wasn't hungry so I figured that was pointless).

I'm still going in to giver her the pacifier as I am trying to just tackle one problem at a time and right now I'm focusing on setting a solid schedule. I do realize this is now a habit though and is aiding the 45 minute problem for naps. It is totally random if she will just do 45 or other times 2 hours?!?!?

So again, where should I start? What should I change first? Where should she be realistically for her age?

Thanks.

Plowmanators said...

lifeimages,

For starting late, I suggest you get your feeding times down while having your baby take naps, but it can be through whatever methods you need to. Once feedings are good, move on to CIO for naps. But if (and when) she wakes early, move her to the swing or rock her or whatever to get her back to sleep.

It will take her time to get used to the new changes, but she will get it. Just be patient. Doing something for your entire life then changing it up takes some time for adjustment.

Roxie said...

I have a 5 month old who is suffering from the 45 minute intruder. She used to nap for a good 1 1/2 to 2 hours. I tried checking on her and letting her cry herself back to sleep but it doesn't seem to be working. How long should I let her cry? When do I become concerned? We used the BW method with our first child. She is now 2 and is a sleeping champ. I feel like this time around is so much more difficult! Please help!

jessica said...

I have an almost 8 month old who has been napping well until recently. He goes down for his 2 naps without a fuss. The problem is he has started waking early by about a half hour or an hour. He wakes happy. Should I let him sit in his crib until feeding time or take him out and let him play until feeding time. I'm afraid to leave him in his crib for too long and have him get upset or cranky. I also read that this is the time where he will start to do this, so I'm just wondering what to do to make it through this time. I don't want to start a bad habit! Thanks for your help!!

Plowmanators said...

Roxie,

Is she having a growth spurt? Or any of the things listed in this post?

If so, address those first.

If not, go with your instincts on what to do when she wakes early. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Jessica, so long as he is happy, I would leave him. Resting in bed is better than playing and being stimulated out of bed.

Steph said...

Hi!

I'm having a tough time with my 5 month old. I've been working on the BW thing since birth - and even though she uses a pacifier, I've allowed her to CIO so she doesn't need me to pop it back in throughout naps or night sleep.

here's the thing - she is continuing to have sleep issues. I kept attributing it to growth spurts. But it's like she finishes one and another disruption pops up out of no where. She has yet to STTN. She never took to a DF, so I put her to bed at 7 and she will get up anywhere between 12 and 4 for a feeding. And sometimes it's just one and back to bed til morning. but other nights she stirs - and I let her CIO, and sometimes she falls back asleep. BUt the closer we get to morning she struggles. So I'll feed her on one side if it's after 5 am. But recently she'll fall back asleep and then wake up at 6! I rty letting her work it out herself - but she'll stay up a whole hour (which is her normal waketime) - and that messes everything up. I've been trying to get her to consistently have a morning waketime of 7am or later - but i can NOT get there. Nor can I get her to STTN. She also cries bloody murder before any sleep. AWFUL screeching. Naps are also getting thrown off. She was doing a 1.5-2.5 hour nap in morning, cat nap, 2-3 hour nap in afternoon and sometimes another cat nap before bed. Now since her mornings are thrown off, she'll do wake at 6, sleep at 7 or 7;30 wake at8:30 down at 9:30 wake at 10:30 then back down for a nap at 11:30 or 12. THat's too much up and down! Afternoons start to get better with a consistent nap at 2-4:30. She doesn't always have sleep cues sometimes she gets fussy. Othertimes she stays happy, so it's hard to tell) - so I monitor her waketime to be about an hour. I've played with 45 minutes, but she'll cry herself to sleep for another 30-45 minutes. I've tried 1 hour 15, 1.5 hours even 2 hours. None seem to be the "key".

So I'm lost. I feel out of control. And I just want to fall into a routine. Oh - she is on a 3 hour schedule (sometimes 3.5 depending on when she wakes up from things). I just started her on rice cereal, and things got hairy aagain after starting to even out - so I may cut that out to see if that makes a difference. But this has been an ongoing problem.

Any insight you might have would be stupendous. :)

Rachel Stella said...

Steph,
I have a thought until Valerie gets to you. I think your waketimes and daily sleep might be your problem. 1 hour at 5 months is going to cause issues for most babies and result in short naps. And too much day time sleep is going to cause night sleep issues. I believe valerie usually pushes for STTN before extending the routine, but I know of many babies where extending the routine helps sttn so it might be worth trying that (you would have to extend waketime too of course). Can't say for sure if that will help, it depends on the baby.

Steph said...

Rachel - thanks for your thoughts! I wanted to clarify - do you mean I should give her MORE awake time? Is that what you mean? Like try for longer than an hour? She is usually pretty happy - as she seems to have no sleep cues haha.

Rachel Stella said...

Steph,
Yes, longer than an hour. Most babies seem to go around 2 hours between 4-6 months of age with shorter waketimes in am, longer in pm. That is an average. Every baby is different. Val's seem to be on the lower end of this (waketime wise) if I'm remembering right.

Archana said...

I love your blog and I am a BW mom with a 5.5 month old who is still on a 3 hr schedule. I think it is partly that she has 2, 30mins naps in the morning, one long 2-3hr nap in the afternoon and then some days a short 30min catnap. She had a few days around 4 months when she did a longer am nap, but that has disappeared. Also a few disruptions (cold, teething, vacation) has led her to start waking at night for a feed around 3-4 am, for a few weeks now. She wakes usually around 6.45am to start the day. So I would like your help to increase her am naptime, switch to a 4 hr schedule and eliminate the night time feed. Really dont want to resort to CIO since I have a 2.5 yr old as well. Thank you so much for your time and patience

Casey Ottinger said...

Love love love your blog! I have a 6 month old who is on a 3.5/4 hour schedule with 5 feedings a day. I haven't moved to a strict 4 hour schedule yet because his awake time is still shy of 2 hours and he hasn't consistently napped until the next feed time. He's still doing 3 naps a day and his morning wake time was around 7am until recently (maybe 6:45-7:30ish depending on the day...which is fine!). The past 2 days he has been waking up super early (like 5:45). The problem is he isn't crying, just happily squealing! Because he wakes happy, I'm doubting it is teething or hunger. We have room darkening shades, use a fan for white noise, and have him in a sleep sack to keep warm. Also, my husband and I are still in bed and our neighborhood is quiet so I don't think he hears anything specific. What do you think? Since he is waking so early, I leave him to play for maybe 30-45 minutes before getting him up (bc hes happy) but then the whole day is off...including his naps. Since his awake time is only 1hr 30 min or 1 hr 45 minutes, his first nap should start at like 7:15am which is crazy! Especially because I can't get a 2 hr nap out of him (most naps are btw 1-2 hours). So, I'm royally confused! He's gotten a lot more active and aware of his surroundings lately so I'm attributing most of it to that...he just wants to play play play. BUT what do I do about it? How do I move towards his 7am wake time again? HELP! :) Thanks so much!!!

Plowmanators said...

Steph,

Some moms do find a four hour schedule helps sleep problems. If you have gone through the nighttime sleep issues post and have tried all of the suggestions there, then you might try that.

If you decide to extend waketimes, do it in small increments at a time if you haven't started already. I would suggest 5-10 minute increases at a time.

One way to gauge her waketime length is how well she falls asleep. If it is too short, she will take a while to fall sleep. Too long and she might fall asleep well, but wake up early. I do think at least 60 minutes is what you want. I would guess anywhere from 60-120 minutes, with my best guess around 90.

I do think the pacifier could be the issue. She might be able to sleep without it, but might not want to. At this point, she is very close to being old enough to find it her self and put it back in (usually happens 6-8 months old they say). So you could either wait it out or try taking it away now.

Plowmanators said...

Archana,

If her first nap is short, then I would work on figuring out her best waketime length. See the post on "optimal waketime length" for help figuring that out. I would start with the first nap and then go from there. Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Casey, this is talked about in the Babywise book. This is commmon with all babies, not just babywise babies. I would leave him in bed as long as he is happy. If he is waking because of the random growth leap, then he will go back to sleep. Good luck!

jennymeigs said...

My son is 6 months and 1 week old and the last 3 weeks have been out of the twilight zone. He was napping great and STTN, waking up between 7 and 7:30 each morning and a bedtime of 8:30 each night. The first two naps he would always sleep 1.5-2hrs and most times not even make a noise when I put him down. When I look at the possibilities I don't know what to address first. He looks to be teething. Has bright white spots on bottom gums and rubs his face on things and chews on hands and bibs. I rotated motrin and tylenol for pain and used orajel at times and other times used teething tablets. Then he got his first ever diaper rash and it turned out to be a yeast diaper rash. So I've been changing him what seems to be 15-20x a day. Doctor prescibed cream and LO seems to be improving there. Also at his 6 mo appt the doctor suggested we take him off Zegerid since he may not need it anymore and have him sleep on his crib mattress compared to the wedge inside his crib (all for acid reflux). So there have been a lot of changes in the last week at once but all this started before all the changes were made, 3 weeks ago. I've been getting up in the night with him 2-5x due to him crying. When I get up with him I've been changing him due to his rash and feeding him as well. I tried not feeding him at first but then he would continue to wake up and I need sleep in a bad way. Last night he got up 4x and when I went to feed him he didn't seem interested. We also used to put Rice Cereal in EVERY bottle per doctor due to acid reflux and now we are only doing that with 1 or 2 bottles a day but we are giving him other solids 2-3x a day. I'm not sure if the Zegerid and Rice Cereal bottles made him sleep better or what. I'm at a loss as to what to do. I think part of it is teething, part of it is growth spurt, part is learning new things. He has started scooting around and becoming a lot more curious and interactive. I want to be flexible through his changes but I also don't want to be too flexible when he may just want attention from Mommie. Please help!

Plowmanators said...

jennymeigs,

I personally would address the reflux possibility first. I think waking that many times in a night for teething is unlikely.

Caitlin said...

I left a post on the forty-five minute intruder page, but this page seems relevant as well. My 20 week old is not teething, sick, going through a growth spurt (just had one!) we're not moving, changing schedules, or doing anything out of the ordinary. The sun doesn't wake him up, and his nighttime wakings go back and forth from being all over the map to being so consistent that I'll wake up from the pain of engorgement at the exact same time he'll be stirring about to wake for a night feeding. I am at a complete loss.

My first question relates to naps- say a baby were even to get 12 hours of sleep a night, then if you're on a three-hour schedule, that would be four naps per day for him, and at 4, almost five months old, isn't it better to start cutting back the third one, much less have a forth one? I guess I'm just confused as to how to only have three naps when he's awake 12 hours a day. But then like my son, he only sleeps 10 or 11, so then what? 5 naps? He can stay awake for 1:45 to 2 hours, which I realize is at the top of the optimal waketime polls, but if I put him down at 80-90 minutes he won't go to sleep until he would have anyway had I waited until 1:45 or later, and sometimes it will even take longer than if I wait until then. Do you think it's okay to have such a long waketime under these circumstances, or could that be affecting his napping (which if you've already read my other post, we've been experiencing the forty-five minute intruder for two months).

Last night I tried dropping the dreamfeed as an experiment to see if that would help him sleep better at night, but he just woke up at 1:30 to eat.

I would really love his waketime to be 8 am- sometimes he makes it, but generally he wakes at 4-6. This morning was typical- wake at 5:30, eat, play in his crib for an hour and a half, and finally fall asleep around 7, and then I get him up at 8 ish. Is an 8 o'clock start time too late? Because he plays for that hour and a half, it's really like the 7-8 am sleeping hour is just the first nap of the day, so that brings us to five naps. Should I start his day at 7 instead?

Lots of baby books say that an earlier bedtime will yield longer sleep hours...and some recommend putting him to bed at 6:30, which we've been doing consistently, and which seems perfect because he seems tired by then and is happy to go to sleep. But then sleeping till 8 is 13.5 hours- and he just can't make that. Would it be better to back his bedtime up to 7:30 or 8? Or to wake him up earlier- or both? Sorry for this confusing ramble- I'm just hoping you'll see some red flags in here that might be causing DS to STILL not sleep through the night at almost 5 months.

I wonder about moving to a four-hour schedule, but he doesn't nap that long, hardly even to the three hour mark, and still wakes up at least once a night besides the df. AHHHH!

Plowmanators said...

Caitlin,

A five month old should have three naps.

He could be up for as long as two hours at a time,but no longer until after the third nap.

Most babies wake in the 7 AM hour. 8 is late for most babies.

If you want his waketime later than 6:30 AM, I would put bedtime later.

Caitlin said...

Ok thanks! But I still am wondering how to only have three naps per day...if you start at 7 even, then eat again at 10, and 1, then at 3 after his third nap he'd be awake until bedtime. Is that right?

Katie said...

My baby is 6 months old and we have been doing BW since birth, like most comments on here. I am a younger mom and have started back at college again. I took online classes for a semester since she was due to be born less than a month into the new semester. Obviously I can't take her to class with me so we have started daycare. However, the daycare provider who we have right now doesn't follow the schedule at all. I know this is a flexible schedule, but she isn't sleeping at daycare at all. On 2 days of the week she doesn't sleep until I pick her up after noon. I am worried that she isn't getting enough sleep, so she has been going to be at 8. I have also told the daycare provider that she hasn't napped at all and needs one when I drop her off (She has 2 daycare because a fried has offered to watch her while she doesn't have class). Should there be another solution to this problem? or should she just keep going to bed at 8?

Plowmanators said...

Caitlin, that is right; you wouldn't have a nap again after the 4 PM feeding and then be in bed close to 7 PM

Plowmanators said...

Katie, 8 PM is a good bedtime. Most babies go to bed between 7-8 PM.

Lenon said...

I wrote this somewhere else yesterday, but now I can't find it! Anyways, I have followed Babywise w/ my little girl since day 1. At 3.5 months we finally got past the 45 min intruder. At 3.5 months she had waketimes of 45-50 min, 1 hr 15 min, 1 hr 20 min. Her first nap was always 2-2+ hours easy. Her second nap she would sleep for 45 min and then wake for a little while and then go back to sleep for another 1-1.5 hours. Her third nap was 45 min-1 hr long. From 4-4.5 months, thing were basically the same except waketimes were 55 min-1 hr, 1 hr 20-25 min and 1 hr 25 min. Her third nap also became a regular 45 min nap. Then at 4.5 months she had a growth spurt and we had troubles again. For the last month and a half I have been playing with waketimes. I finally have it where she will sleep for 35-45 min, wake for 15-20 minutes, then go back to sleep for another hour. She does this for her first 2 naps. I'm grateful that she will at least go back to sleep, but I'm wondering if there is something else I should try. It usually takes her about 10 minutes to fall asleep once I lay her down. How much do you think her waketimes could have increased in this month and a half? She will be 6 months this week. By the way, I love your site! I found it through the Babywise group on BabyCenter. Very addicting!

Lenon said...

I should also say that I use white noise so distractions shouldn't be a problem. I also use black out shades.

KEK said...

My DD is 6.5 months old and about two weeks ago started having a terrible time with her afternoon nap. She will only sleep 45 min and no more. I have tried painkiller, gas drops, bottle before nap, more solids (she barely eats any solids for lunch, though I have tried!), less waketime (even down to 1.25), more waketime (up to 2.25), white noise, blackout shades, more exercise, long wind-down, warmer/cooler clothes and probably more things! I've looked through every post on here about naps, but I still get 45 min naps! I've thought back to what has changed and the only thing I can think of is that I stopped nursing her due to bad latch/milk supply. We went to all bottles (pumped BM with some formula), but I still try to give her lots of mommy time. Around that time we also went to a 4 hour schedule since I new how much she was getting and knew she could take a full 6oz bottle at a time. I would think that if that is the problem, she would be waking from every nap early, not just the afternoon right? The only other thing I can think of is that she started to crawl right around that time. She's a very active girl and has no trouble crawling now so it doesn't seem to be a new skill issue. I just can't figure out what's going on! I think we are definitely past the WW26 as her mood has greatly improved, but I just don't know what else to do. Oh and she sleeps 12 hours at night no problem (8pm-8am). Any help would be wonderful! Thank you!

May said...

Sorry it’s a long one. I really appreciate your help.
My 25 week-old has always been a pretty good sleeper until around 3 weeks ago. Both her nighttime sleep and her naps gradually got worse. First, her morning wake-up time got earlier gradually. She used to sleep until 8:30 – 8:45 am. Three weeks ago, she started waking at 8:05, and now she’s waking at 7:30. With her naps, her first nap used to 1.5+ h, but since a little over 2 weeks ago, it shortened to 45 min on most days. Her 2nd nap is still intact, usually 1.5 h. The 3rd nap has been really bad the last few days, she’s been crying for 45 + minutes before she could fall asleep. Actually, it took her 1.5 hr (~ 50 min of crying) to fall asleep yesterday.
I have been trying to troubleshoot based on the suggestions on your blog and have some questions. I hope you can help me with them.
1. I weaned her from her 4th nap after she started waking early in the morning. However, it doesn’t seem to help her sleep longer at night. Now that her 1st nap is short and I don‘t want her waketime for longer than 2 hours (except after the 3rd nap), do you think I should give her a 4th nap again. This way, the waketime between after her 3rd nap and bedtime won’t be as long. It could be up to 3.5 hours right now. Also her total sleep time per day has dropped from 15 hrs to 13 hrs.
2. We put her down between 8:30-9 p, should we move her bedtime earlier to 7:30 pm, since she’s waking up at 7:30 in the morning?
3. I still feed her 5 times during the day + 1 dreamfeed (11 pm), and she doesn’t drink a lot during her morning feeding, so I didn’t really think it’s a hunger issue. However, you did mention about Kaityln needed more solid when she was 8 months in order to nap better. We haven’t started solid yet because our pediatrician told us to wait until she’s 6 months. Do you think this could be the issue?
4. I don’t think it’s related to teething. I can't really tell she's teething, but she’s usually pretty happy during her waketime.

Thank you so much for your help!

Plowmanators said...

Lenon,

I think I would let it be for now.

The only thing so far as waketmime length is you can go back to what you were last successful with. Then add five minutes at a time until you get to the right length.

Plowmanators said...

And thanks for the thanks! I am glad you like the blog :)

Plowmanators said...

KEK,

I can think of a few possibilities:

one is that she is excited about crawling and wants to get up and move.

Another is that she can do the four hour earlier in the day but not for that stretch--and a combo schedule is just fine if that is what she needs.

Another is it is some weird thing that has no real explanation.

Have you considered if there are any noises that happen consistently at that time of day that could be waking her up? Or if the temp in the room changes at that time?

Plowmanators said...

May,

1. You could try it and see what she does, but in my experience most babies that age really do best with only three naps. Of course, she isn't sleeping well, so she might need that fourth nap.

2. I would move bedtime up.

3. It is possible, but I think it is wise to follow the instructions of the pedi. If you really want to try solids, I would talk it over with the doctor.

I would suggest you try feeding her as soon as she wakes up and see how she eats. Just make sure it isn't hunger at all. Then you have one thing for sure off the list.

Aubry's mom said...

Hi Valerie,

I can't believe I'm actually posting to you; I refer to your posts all the time! Thank you for all your advice to everyone and helping us raise a generation of happy babies!

My little one will be 5 months in a few days and we've been following babywise since about week 3. She's been STTN since week 10. We've been following a 3 hour schedule with dream feed since week 3/4.

Aubry's Schedule:
6am wake & nurse
7:30 nap
9:30 wake & nurse
11:00 nap
12:30 wake & nurse
2:00 nap
3:30 wake & nurse
5:00 nap
6:00 wake & nurse
7:30 put baby to sleep
10:00 DF

She's not eating solids yet. Sometimes she bottle fed breastmilk and she's eating 5oz.

My problems are:
1.) Sleeping issues this week. All week she has awoken around 8:30pm crying so I figured I'd dreamfeed and hopefully she'd still sleep all night. Sunday night she woke up at 10pm, 1am and 4am and I let her cry for a while then fed her. Tuesday she woke at 10pm plus 12 and I fed her. Wednesday and thursday she also woke up around 10pm and then she woke at early at 5am. Wednesday and Thursday I let her play/cry until 5:30 am then feed her and adjusted the day's schedules accordingly.

2.) I feel like we are stuck at 3hr schedule with DF. I'm not sure how we are ever going to go to a four hour schedule because she sucks down the DF. I'm also not sure when we should drop the afternoon 5ish nap because she only sleeps about 30 mins or sometimes not at all. In addition, I think her waketime needs to be extended because she's not too tired after the 1 1/2 waketime, but I don't think she'll nap any longer?

Lastly, I confess that it has been real hard to put her down at 7:30 for bed because she's learned how to use her lungs real good and we have started in the past month to sometimes rock her for this sleep time only. I'm wondering if all our problems are attributed to this one rock to sleep.

thanks for your help! Aubry's mom

Ps Please pass this knowledge along to other BW moms with nursing issues. I started having supply issues in month 3 and finally resolved it within about 2 wks by feeding baby everytime then pumping for 10 mins after the feeding plus taking Fenugreek. No formula in Aubry yet!

Aubry's mom said...

Hi Valerie, I just wanted to update you on our progress; perhaps just by hitting the send button your guidance is bestowed upon us!! I suddenly had some ideas and the confidence to make the schedule changes.


We have our happy baby Aubry back.
1. I'm pretty sure she was teething and we comforted her and created a bad habit by some nursing and rocking. She then starting waking twice a night for the next week and a half. About one week into it, I tried rocking her back to sleep, no nursing, to make sure it wasn't hunger. Then we let her CIO then next night and she is now sleeping through the night again.

2. We did drop the 4th nap and extended her wake time to 1:45 minutes. Are naps / waketime supposed to be the same? She still naps for 1:30 minutes. This has made a dramatic difference as she is not crying at naptime or bedtime anymore and she falls asleep naturally. I guess our next game plan is to figure out when to drop the DF, then move to four hr schedule. Thanks Val, hope you had a wonderful Christmas!

The Russells said...

I am so frustrated and reading all the comments just makes it even worse. Our son is 5 1/2 months old. Since he was about 8 weeks old, he has yet to sleep longer than 45 min to an hour during naps without waking. I leave him in his crib and let him cry himself back to sleep EVERY nap! So, three times day...every day, I have to listen to him scream at the top of his lungs for sometimes even up to 45 minutes! I know he needs longer than a 45 minute nap. He sleeps 10 hours at night and has since he was 11 weeks. He is formula fed and on solids (twice a day). He eats every 4 hours, 7 oz. of formula and then 2-4 tablespoons of solid food. He is a great eater! I have tried being super quiet, I bought him a sleep machine, we tried black-out curtains. I don't know what else to do. The screaming 3 times a day has made me insane. I pretty much spend every nap locked in the bedroom on the opposite side of the house so I don't have to listen to him. I have also tried to move his morning wake time to a later time unsuccessfully. I do not go in right when he wakes, I allow him to chat to himself for a while, but after about 15 minutes, he starts the crying. I am so sick of all the crying. I do not know what to do. There are many passages in Babywise that refer to babies only needing a few days or weeks to stop cryong themselves to sleep. Months? Does that even make any sense? I am feeling like a bad and mean mother. Should he still be crying himself to sleep and waking middle of naps crying himself to sleep again?
Here is his basic schedule:

6:15-6:45 wake
7:00-7:30 feed
10:00 nap
11:30-12 feed
1:30 nap
3:30-feed
5:30 nap
7:00 feed
8:00 feed 3 oz. ad bedtime

My faith in Babywise is faltering and I hate it bc so many of my friends have had such success with it! HELP!!!

The Russells said...

I know I sound like a very uninformed Babywise mom. I have read both books 1 and 2 several times and revisited specific sections when needed. I am thinking based on reading some more comments that perhaps I am trying to let him have too much wake time in the morning. I was trying to work about my gym schedule, bc he will not sleep while at the gym nursery. There are just too many things to look at and explore. I guess I should change to afternoons and see if that makes a difference. My questions with that is...if I get him up at 7 to eat, but he has been awake since 6:15 talking to himself, does he go down at 8:15? OR at 9:00. I would think 9, so that he will sleep 2 hours and then wake to eat. Although I am sure he will wake 45 min to and hour into that nap and cry some...we will see. What do you think? I am trying to do some troubleshooting myself here.

Thanks for all your help! I am so thankful to have found this blog!!!

Plowmanators said...

Russells, I would say he is awake way too long. At his age, he should be awake for two hours at most before going down for the next nap.

At his age, you could likely do a set nap time. So if you are getting him up at 7 to eat, you would put him down at 9, but if he does not sleep well, move the time back by 10-15 minutes until he does sleep well.

Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Aubrey's Mom,

1-That sounds to me like pretty dramatic sudden sleep issues. I would look into medical causes (sickness or teething). I do think it is possible, though, that the rocking could have contributed to the issues.

2-She is not at an abnormal age to still have a DF and still have a 3 hour schedule. McKenna was about 5 months old when we dropped the dreamfeed, Kaitlyn was 7 months old. Brayden was 6 months old when he went to a 4 hour schedule. Kaitlyn was 7 months. I can't remember McKenna exactly...6 months? Maybe five?

Plowmanators said...

Aubrey's Mom,

Glad to hear the improvement!

Naps range from 1.5-2.5 hours. Waketime ranges also, from a little over one hour to two hours. It sounds like she is doing well!

The Russells said...

Thank you for your advice. I actually have changed our son's schedule and shortened the wake time drastically. It has helped with the morning nap a bit, but the afternoon nap is still a major problem. Here is my dilemma. He wakes at 6:30, but I let him talk /fuss until 7. I feed him and we have playtime until 8:50. He is asleep by 9. He will sleep 1.5 to 2 hours. When he does wake, he is fussy, I assume due to hunger. Do I go ahead and feed him early? It throws off the whole day. Lately I have been feeding him upon waking, so yesterday is a great example of the problem. HE slept until 10:45 and I fed him. He is eating 7 oz of formula and about 2-4 tbls of cereal/veggies/fruits. He is a good eater, so I know he gets plenty of calories. We put him down again around 12:45. He slept exactly one hour. We were silent in the house and actually locked in the bedroom on the other side with the dogs. He cried for about 15 min. He was wailing by then, so I decided he might be hungry. I went in with 4 oz. He sucked it down ravenously, then cried when he was through. He continued to cry for the next 30 min until we finally got him up at around 2:30 (early again!) The crying is making me insane! We kept him up until 5 (mainly bc I do not want him sleeping for 2 hours in the evening...should only be a catnap, right?) If I let him he would sleep 2 hours! He is not usually fussy until right around 5, so we have been extending his waketime in the evenings as long as we can. He will be 6 months next week. My concern is this...I CANNOT get him to sleep longer than an hour maximum during that afternoon nap. When he wakes, he wants to eat, but that screws up the rest of the day's schedule. Also, I feel he has is backwards and dropping the 3rd nap over the next 2 months seems like it will be a real challenge, due to the hour afternoon nap and 1.5 to two hour evening nap. Suggestions? Thank you. I truly appreciate your insight!

The Russells said...

Oh, and one more thing...HE is waking much earlier in the morning than he was and I simply cannot get him back to 7:30, so I am assuming we need to try to shorten that 3rd nap...maybe to just 45 min? However, how do you do that? Do I keep him up until 45 min before his next feeding (this may cause him to be overtired and never actually sleep, just cry, cry, cry! ), or do I put him down at normal time and just try to distract him when I get him up and wait until feeding time? He likes to have his bottle right away upon waking. Just not sure how to go about this. Thank you!

Oh...and If he wakes at 6:30, but I don't get him up to feed until 7, does his wake time start at 6:30 or 7? I know the answer seems obvious, but I have been going from feed time to try to keep him on a 4 hr. schedule.

Caitlin said...

Hi Russels,

I hope I'm not usurping Valerie's blog here, but my son does that exact same thing, and we finally figured out what it was so I thought I'd share. He would wake up at 6:30-6:45 instead of 7, and I would just have to put him down no more than 2 hours later, even if that meant putting him down at 8:30. Now he's 10 months, and still naptime has to be two hours from when he woke, not necessarily 9 AM. Occasionally he will wake up at 6, at which point I feed him a little and put him straight back to bed until 7:30. However in that case, I do have to respect the 9 AM time, even though it's been only 1.5 hours of waketime. If I keep him up 2 hours he will have a short nap. So basically the rule of thumb for us is no longer than 2 hours of waketime, and nap no later than 9. Actually, I think at that age my son was still doing 1:45 for his first waketime.

Nowadays he usually wakes up at 6:30 and just plays quietly in his crib, and my alarm is set for 7 (though about half the time I can hear him talking and go in earlier than that), so once I wake up I go in and feed him, and just assume he woke up at 6:30 and put him down at 8:30 and then he'll nap a full nap. Feeding him at 6:30 if I happen to be awake or at 7 seems to make no difference to him sleeping well as long as the waketime is right.

And about shortening the 3rd nap- that might happen on it's own once nap 1 and 2 are longer. But about that age my son starting waking up before 7 AM as well, as he's never gone back.

And as far as the 2nd nap goes, maybe his waketime is still too long? Or maybe he's going through a growth spurt- who knows. My son did short afternoon naps for a while too for what seemed no reason, then it turned out his waketime was still a tad too long.

Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

Russells, waking up crying typically means he did not get enough sleep--so I would try shortening waketime length by 10-15 minute increments. He might also be in a growth spurt and just need to eat more often, especially since you said he ate ravenously and then cried when it was gone. That would be my first guess.

I like what Caitlin said about waketime. This kind of varies from baby to baby. Some can ignore the time awake but in bed while others need it calculated. And others have something in the middle (being in bed is not minute-for-minute equal to being out of bed). Babies are fun right? ;)

hunniebee530 said...

hi Valerie,

thank you so much for this blog. i had left comments when my LO was a newborn and now i can't believe it, but he is 6 months old! he began to STTN at 4 months old the week i removed his swaddle cold turkey and took away the paci and now sucks his index and middle fingers to sleep (like Kaitlyn).

i noticed the past month or so his naps have been a little wonky. i'm trying to troubleshoot and tweak things here and there but just thought i would run it by you and see what you thought. it is his 2nd nap which is troublesome to me and also he used to sleep 11-12 hrs at night and now awakens around 5:15a on some days and usually he will go back to sleep on his own around 6:30a until 7:30 or 8a). i thought maybe he was getting too much daytime sleep so i shortened the 1st nap to 1 hr 40min instead of its usual 2 hrs. we follow a 3-4 hr schedule as you can see...

7:30-8a wake up/nurse
9:20a nap
11a i wake him up/nurse
12:30p nap (sometimes he sleeps on/off, no crying, he awakens and stays in bed 20-30min then goes back to sleep)
2p wake up/nurse
4p catnap
4:45p wake up/nurse
7:30-8p nurse before bed then to sleep for the night

i thought shortening the 1st nap would lengthen the 2nd nap and take away the early awakenings but it hasn't. the 2nd nap the past few days has been only 20-30min then he'll lie in bed for half an hour or more and sometimes go back to sleep for another 30min. again, he doesn't cry so i wouldn't know except that i'm looking at the monitor. it's the same thing for those 5am early wakings - he is silent! i wouldn't know unless i wake up randomly and look and sometimes at 5am his eyes are open and i'll fall back asleep and randomly wake at 6am and see that he's back asleep... obviously this is not helping me get any rest..

what do you think is going on? i thought perhaps wonder week? but this has been going on for weeks on end.. do you think i should just not be worried since he doesn't cry at all and does this aboue 2-3x/wk? he seems content to just lie in his crib sucking on his fingers until he falls asleep again for the early wakings. or perhaps it's teething tho i don't see very much on his gums? do you think my reasoning for too much daytime sleep affecting the early am awakenings makes sense? or should i just let that 1st nap be longer and let him sleep until he wakes up himself? i would like his 2nd nap to be the longer one since i know that's the one that persists through til toddlerhood but does that lengthen on its own? or do i need to help it along? sorry for all these questions!!!

thanks for your thoughts!!!

hunniebee530 said...

oh i also wanted to say this... sometimes when i wake him up from that 1st nap he definitely seems tired and not happy to be woken up. and when he wakes early from his 2nd nap sometimes i pick him up and play with him and he seems so happy though he's only slept 30min and then i put him back down and he'll sleep another 30min and be very happy though tired when i pick him up.. i would like to "fix" this issue with the 2nd nap bc when he sleeps poorly for the 2nd nap of course the 3rd nap ends up being longer than usual to make up for it...(an hour or more when it is usually 30min)

thanks again!! hope you're 4th pregnancy is going well!!!

Plowmanators said...

hunniebee,

My first guess would actually be that he is hungry---have you started solids yet? If not, he might be in need of that. There is a growth spurt at 6 months.

I would let him nap 2 hours.

It definitely could be teeth, too.

Good luck!

hunniebee530 said...

hi Valerie! we are still having issues with that 2nd nap. i would say they're a bit better. sometimes the 2nd nap is 35min but sometimes it is 1hr 15min and sometimes 1 hr 30min. i've tried to lengthen the waketime and it seemed to help when i made it longer (1hr 40min) but if i make it too long, then he wakes early. so maybe it was a waketime issue? i did start solids as well but he will only eat 1-2 tbsp of food after the 2nd nursing of the day and then eat 2-3 tbsp after the evening nursing. he will clamp his mouth shut or cry when he's done.

when you say you would let him nap 2 hours do you mean the 1st nap?

and yes i definitely feel teeth this week though they haven't cut yet... but i think his teeth will cut in the next few weeks.

thanks!

Plowmanators said...

I am glad you are seeing some improvement :)

I did mean two hours for the first nap--I wouldn't shorten it.

lindseybeck said...

Hi Val,

I have posted several times, but I can never find my posts after posting them. I am SO sorry if you have responded to me before, but I am STILL dealing with waking early in the morning and from all naps!

Our 7.5 month old girl started having problems at 6 months. She was ALWAYS a GREAT sleeper. Sleeping through the night VERY early (6-8 weeks). We dealt with the 45 minute intruder because of poor Christmas time planning until February!

Then, when we were finally back in the groove this nighttime waking began.

Her schedule was: (4hr)
6:30- wake. eat 6 oz bottle
7:00-breakfast- 4tbls cereal with fruit
8:30- nap
10:30- wake- eat 6 oz. bottle
11:00- lunch 1 veggie 1 fruit
12:30- nap
2:30- wake 6 oz bottle
4:30- catnap
5:15- up/ 5 oz. bottle
6:30- bath
6:50- bottle 6 oz. bottle
7:15- put in bed awake and asleep by 7:15


Then, one day.. 5:30 came... and it's stayed.. and stayed.. and stayed.

My husband thinks I am losing my mind. I search for "reasons" online constantly.

I've trousblshooted everything I can think of. 1. dropping 3rd nap. This worked for 3 nights, then she started waking early from all naps.
2. earlier bed time to get in 12 full hours of sleep. This worked for 1 night.
3. less wake time for naps (back to 3 1/2 hour schedule)

So, now, here we are, a month later.
Our schedule is this:
12:00-2:00- plays in bed (never cries)
4:00- plays in bed till 5:00 (never cries)
5:38 (yes, exaclty)- awake
I don't go get her until normal wake time at 6:20-6:30- she has never cried here either. She's very content just to play.
I feed her at 6:30- 6 oz. bottle (she isn't hungry)
7:00 breakfast- maybe eats 3 spoonfuls of cereal
7:30- ready for nap
8:15- awake
9:45- ready for nap
10:15- awake
10:30- bottle- 6 oz.
11:00- lunch 1 veggie and 1 fruit (she eats all at this time)
12:15- nap (this is the only nap where she sleeps and I think she just crashes)
1:30- 2:00- awake
2:30- bottle 6 oz. (maybe eats 4 oz.)
4:00- absolutely exhausted. baggy eyes, red eyes, rubbing eyes, cranky
sleeps till 5:00
5:00- bottle 5 oz.
6:20- bath
7:00- bed (plays for 30 minutes)

I am in serious need of help. I just need a success story that dealt with this terrible 5-8 month stage. I LOVE this age in my child, but the last month has been miserable teaching. I go to work on minimal sleep for 20 other babies that need me.

Can you offer me a success story, or anything uplifiting?? Something new to try????

Thanks for all you do.

Lindsey

Lindsey said...

Update on EC... night time sleep has gotten better, but we are still waking a tad early. Afternoon nap is much more consistent, but morning nap is still not longer than 45 mins.

I am noticing this pattern. She is now able to go back to sleep after waking early around 5:40 (her waketime is 6:30 because of our work schedules). However, now I have to wake her up at the 6:30 mark and she is soooo cranky after that. She can only make it maybe an hour and a half before her morning nap. I feel like if she could hold off then maybe we could drop the 3rd catnap in the afternoon and solve the waking early.

Do you have any other tricks? I've troubleshooted most of the nap techniques. I think one of the only one's that I haven't tried is going in at 30 mins with the patting. The only reason I don't want to do this is because she stays with someone other than me during the work week and it isn't realistic for our sitter to be able to do it with another child in the house. (So I don't want EC to get used to it when it won't happen during the day.)

So.. our newest schedule that seems ot help night time sleep:
6:30 wake
6:45- 6 oz bottle (still fights eating even after 12 hours)
7:15- breakfast- 3 tbps oatmeal and 1/2 fruit
8:15- nap
9:00- up.. plays in bed until nap time is over. I make her wait the whole hour that is left, and if she falls back asleep I wake her up at the 2- 2.5 hour mark.
10:45- 6 oz. bottle
1!:00- lunch 1 veg 1 fruit
12:15- nap
2:15-up
2:45/ 3:00- 6 oz bottle . I offer the sippy cup here. She honestly prefers a cup with no lid. She has no problems picking it up and drinking from it, but has a hard time setting it down.
4:30- catnap
5:15- up
5:30- dinner 1 veg 1 fruit.. if still hungry I give her 2 tbs. cereal.
6:45- bath
7:00- 7 oz. bottle
7:15- cuddle, reading, and singing time
7:30 asleep with sleep sheep, cool mister, footies, 2 blankets, and ceiling fan. (Ped. recommended ceiling fan during allergy season)

I'm sorry for such a long post. I know I have read somewhere that there is a reason for a shorter morning nap.. but I can't put my finger on it today!
Thanks again!
Lindsey

Plowmanators said...

Lindsey, I would focus on trying to fix one thing at a time. I would start wtih the morning nap. I think she likely needs a shorter waketime before going down for a nap. I would try moving her back by five minute increments until you hopefully find a lengtht that works.

lindseybeck said...

Thanks so much! I shortened wake time even more for the morning nap. She will sleep at least an hour and half-2 hours if not more in the mornings. She is only staying awake for an hour and MAYBE an hour an a half max.
We are still waking early at night, and extremely restless throughout the night. I am hopeful that maybe this will change, since we are going on 2 months of waking early and very restless sleep. (cries out at random times, while still asleep, and then gets settled back to bed.

She is happier though, which is a good thing.

Insane Jamie said...

My baby girl (5mo old) wakes up at 4-5am everyday. (not quite sleeping through the night yet, wakes up a couple times, but I can usually get her back to sleep just by fixing her blankie, or giving her the paci) I try to let her go for 45 minutes when she wakes up to see if she will go back to sleep, but she seems wide awake just talking and playing by herself. Usually after 45 minutes I cave and just put her in bed with me and then she will sleep until 7:30 and we have our bfast at 8:00 when my mom-in-law comes over to watch her. Any suggestions to get her to sleep longer in the crib?

Plowmanators said...

Insane Jamie,

One thing I would recommend is to not take her to your bed withher. She could be hungry, but since she sleeps for a long time after taking her to bed with you, she likely isn't ungry. I would soothe here back to sleep, but put her back in the crib for now.

Rachel Larson said...

My daughter is 6 months old, and has been a good napper/naptime sleeper. For about 2 weeks now, she has been waking at around 2:30am every morning crying, and i have been feeding her because it seemed to help, because she would go back down unitl her waketime at 7:30am. BUT now she eats at that time and then cries when I put her back to bed..i'm at a total loss. I have done CIO before, but only for puting her to bed (up to an hour in some cases), but i'm not sure if i should CIO in the middle of the night. Being that it is at the same time every night, and she's eating solids well and breastfeeding, and she's not sick or teething yet, I'm inclined to do CIO...but i did it for 50min. last night, with me ending up giving in to give her the pacifier (which usually doesn't soothe her when she's in the middle of CIO). So, I'm just not sure also if i do CIO, how long is too long? she is the type to not have interuptions in CIO or it gets worse...
Please let me know also if you think it may be related to her schedule:

730am WEP (solids and nurse)
930am nap
1130 WEP (solids and nurse)
130pm nap
330 WEP (solids and nurse)
7 Last feeding and bed

Mrs. Snyder :) said...

So, this may be a long one, but here we go. So i started BW when my daughter was 3mos old. she never regularly slept through the night, her longest stretch was 7.5 hours (1 time) and the 6hrs(maybe 3times) so this isn't a regular thing :( i dont really know what to do, especially because now I think she's teething, and sometimes it seems to be gas, I am confused if I should drop feedings or continue reg in hopes she'll drop them. Any advice would be so helpful. she also sometimes seems to flipflop between a 3 and 4 hr schedule. so basically I'm pretty confused and maybe dropping naps would be good. is there maybe a way i can start fresh? tips!? thanks! amy

Plowmanators said...

Rachel your schedule looks good. Be sure to look at the post on 5-8 month sleep disruptions for ideas on why babies might wake at that age. As for if you CIO or not, you have to make that call. I never have done it at night because I know I woudln't be able to see it through in the night, but many people do with success.

Plowmanators said...

Mrs. Snyder, I am not sure how old she is, and age can have an impact. Consistency is sometheing important to stick to. For more specific advice, I would need to know her age and when you feed her as well as how long she is awake before each nap. Good luck!

Ariana said...

Hi there, not sure if you'll see this but my 6 month old is waking once during the night at random time, eats, and goes back to sleep. ALSO, he has been waking for the day (his only happy waking on his own) as early as 5am. He is fine undisturbed for approx 30 minutes and then starts crying. Comforting is unsuccessful, I don't use a paci, and I intermittently have success feeding him which causes enough drowsiness to go back to sleep. I'm going to start solids to try to fix the night waking but do you have suggestions for the early morning one? I don't know if I should try to lessen the 3rd nap or if I should try putting him to bed later or what. Also, my husband can only deal with about 10 mins CIO total. Here's our schedule. He goes down easy for all naps and bed.

7 DWT, nurse
830 nap
1030 I wake him, nurse
1230 nap
230 I wake him, nurse
430 nap
530 wake (sometimes me, sometimes him), nurse
700 bedtime routine, nurse
730 bed

Ariana said...

PS He is meeting your 1st 3 sleep hierarchy goals for 6-9 month olds and your 1st subgoal.

PSS-he is 27 weeks old, 23 weeks adjusted, not teething and this has been happening for about 3 weeks so I don't think it's a growth spurt/wonder week.

Candice said...

I need HELP. My baby has been on the babywise schedule right from newborn. She just turned 5 months old and for the last two evenings her bedtime has been terrible. I usually give her a bath around 7 pm, and by 730 pm I nurse her, wrap her up and she goes to sleep. Her eyes are usually closed by the time she touches the crib. She will sleep for 1 hour exactly and then be up and cannot settle back to sleep. Last night she was up in her crib until midnight!?!? That is just crazy to me and then finally I went in there and rocked her to sleep. She still wakes up at 8 am for the day but is exhausted of course. What do I do?

Lindsey said...

My 5 month old is ready for a change in her schedule and I'm just not sure what it is! She is breastfed and is 17 pounds which is a little large for her age range. I have had her on a 3 hour schedule feeding at 7, 10, 1, 4, and 7 at night. A few weeks ago she started waking between 6 and 630 in the morning so I always feel like I am playing catch up on the schedule. A few weeks ago I dropped her 9pm DF to see if that would help and it didn't. Then this last week she started waking early for her naps too. She usually wakes up an hour before her next feed time so I inevitably end up playing, then feeding then putting her down for bed (she doesn't seem to associate food with sleep though so that is good). My question is should I move her to a 4 hour schedule? Is she ready for that? She doesn't seem to be hungry every 3 hours any more, and even though she is waking early her naps are 1 1/2 hours long (her wake time is around 1 hour 15 mins). Should I lengthen her awake time? If I do move her to a 4 hour schedule should I bring the DF back? Is she ready for solids? It doesn't really seem like a hunger issue to me but you never know!

Thanks so much for the help!
Lindsey

Ashlee said...

Have a few questions and would like your insight...feeling confused. So I have a 5 month old girl who is a very happy little girl. Here is our problem...She is on a 8, 11, 2, 5, 8 schedule. Recently, we started rice cereal at the 5pm feeding and she has been doing great. But now she wont eat more than an ounce with her 8pm feeding. Thus causing her to wake at 5am to eat. We have tried to wean the ounces down at that feeding but this has caused her not to be full and so she is awake before 8 (our start of the day time)I also want to start rice with the 11 feeding, but am worried I need to figure out the nighttime first. Maybe I need to go to 4 hour? But she doesn't sleep that long...she is awake at each feeding time ready to eat. She eats great both breast and bottle, so I am not sure the problem here. Please help!!

Mary Abbott said...

Hi Valerie. I wondered if you could help us with our 5.5 month old son as we are tearing our hair out. Our son is well sleep trained and has been sttn for a while now. Daytime naps were fine. A week ago we hit a heatwave, he was mid-teething and had a chest infection which I am assuming really knocked him off. He stopped sleeping to the point where I spent the whole weekend rocking him to sleep. It was a nightmare. I would take about an hour of crying for him to fall asleep for 40 mins then I would feed him and start the whole process again. That was a week ago. Things are no better. He has had antibiotics for his chest infection and seems ok with his teething and its still hot. But he still will not sleep. I have taken his waketime way back to 30 mins and feed him as soon as he wakes from his 30 min nap. He is eating a LOT! Nighttimes are miserable as of course he takes forever to settle then keeps waking. I have tried white noise which worked a little but not much. I am so exhausted. Any suggestions?

Cassandra Dowell said...

Hello, I see thereafter many people who have a rough time at this stage. Lol. Glad to see I'm not the only one. I wanted to ask your opinion about something though. My daughter is 8months next week and we are still on a 3hr schedule. I know she could go 4hrs, it's just her naps have been all out of wack. Her bedtime is 7pm and I DF at 10. She sleeps until 6am. I'm ok with getting her up, it's just I don't know when to put her back down for nap. She won't eat solids usually in the morning, so I will let her play until about 7am. She woke up at 7:20 because my husband got in the shower and it woke her. I let her lay in her crib hoping she would fall back asleep until 8:40. By the time I got her she looked exhausted, I put her back down at 9:30. It's just been so frustrating because it seems like we have everything under control for like a week, then the weekend throws it off. I would like her to get to a 4hr schedule so she would eat better, but I feel like I'm never going to get there with her naps being so chaotic. She is going through major changes like learning to crawl and trying to pull up to standing position, she doesn't act like she's teething, but I see some bumps on her gums. So, with all that said, I'm just wondering if 6am is an ok wake time and if I should cut the wake time back to 45mins to an hour max? Any advice is great and also could u lead me to a post that talks about how exactly to go about moving from 3hr to 4hr schedule. Thank you very much and I hope you have a blessed day!

Paty Noel said...

My babies are now 6 months and being fed solids with formula. They eat and drink well during the day. They have three naps per day. The first is usually 1.5 hrs, second around hr, and third 1.5 hrs. They used to sleep well at night but now they're waking up between 4:30 and 6:30 in the morning (their first feeding is at 7). Do you recommend shortening their third nap or a little bit of all naps during the day?

Valerie Plowman said...

If you shorten a nap, I would shorten the third nap

Alicia said...

Help! My twins (5 month) about 4 months adjusted have been waking several times during the night. They've been on BW since birth and have been sleeping 8 hours since about 3 months. They are still on 6 feedings a day and only seem to be able to stay awake for 1.5hrs after feedings. This makes for 5 naps a day. They nap pretty well usually 1-1.5 hrs. I usually have to wakey them from naps to feed them. The past few weeks they have been waking 5 or more times at night and crying until we put their pacifiers in. I'm wondering if they are getting too much sleep in the day.
here's our schedule:
6am-Feed, awake
715-9-Nap
9-1030:Feed, awake
1030-12:Nap
12-130: feed, awake
130-3:Nap
3-430:feed, awake
430-515is: nap
6-7or 715 (depending how early they awake from last nap:feed, awake
715-730: to bed
9: dream feed
Then at 2a they wake upnevery hr or so for their pacifier.
They don't seem that hungry in the am when we get them up at 6...

Should we do less feedings in the day? Less naps?

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