Wednesday, January 2, 2008

Waking Early From Naps/Won't Fall Asleep For Nap


There are times your baby will wake early or won't fall asleep at all. There are times during sleep training your baby won't fall asleep at all. What do you do those situations?

The answer to this question is dependent on the personality of your child. Here are some solutions (this is all assuming your child is not having a growth spurt):

  • When Kaitlyn was in the heat of CIO, there were times she wouldn't fall asleep for her nap. I didn't want her to cry too long and I also didn't want her to be too tired. So I would put her in her swing if she didn't fall asleep after an hour. She would then sleep and be somewhat rested for the next cycle. This worked great for her. She wasn't the type who would cry harder if I interfered with her naps. After about a month, she rarely woke early from naps. This wouldn't have worked for Brayden. Once he was down, he was down. If I interfered, he would cry longer and harder for the next nap.
  • If you have a really young baby, you can rock your child until he is drowsy before putting him in his bed. Don't rock him to sleep, just to drowsy. I wouldn't continue this on past 3 months for sure, and I would personally stop it around 4-8 weeks (closer to 4, dependent on the child).
  • Be sure you are reading the cues correctly for your child's sleepiness. If he is too tired, he will cry more.
  • Be sure your child doesn't fall asleep while eating. Kaitlyn cried the hardest when I would let her doze during the feed. She wasn't tired enough to sleep if she had a catnap during her waketime.
  • If your child wakes early from a nap, you can try the swing thing, also. I did that with Kaitlyn. If she didn't fall asleep within 10 minutes, I figured she was hungry and I fed her. This was a nice way for me to learn her cries and to read her cues to know for sure if she was hungry or waking early for some other reason. I think the younger your baby, the more likely this solution will work.
  • Another option for early waking is to get them up and play with them until feed time. In this case, you are training the metabolism. Be sure you take that wake time into account for the time before the next nap.
  • I have a friend in a Babywise support group that has a unique solution I have never thought of. She gets her daughter out of the bed, then plays with her until baby shows the first sign of sleepiness, then she puts her back to bed. It works really well for her baby. While it wouldn't work for all, it is another idea. It also shows that, as the mom, you can come up with solutions that work for your baby.
  • There is always Cry It Out (CIO).
  • If your baby is at the age where she wakes early but plays instead of crying, I would leave her there until it is close to regular feeding time. She might fall asleep. If not, she at least will be laying and resting rather than having her senses stimulated. She will also be more patient for food if the feeder is not present.
  • Work on troubleshooting your naps to try to solve the reason baby is waking early. See the Naps: Troubleshooting post at: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
Keep in mind the "why" is more important than the "how." This idea is addressed in Toddlerwise, and really worth reading at any point in your Babywise journey. You need to determine what your parenting goals are. Are they to get baby to fall asleep by herself for naps? Are they to get her to eat so many hours apart? Don't let the how get in the way of why you are doing what you are doing. That is why with Kaitlyn, if she woke early, I would move her to a swing if she would sleep there to finish out the nap. That is why if your baby won't sleep in a swing, I would just play with her until it was time to eat. Then feed her and try to get her back down for her nap at the appropriate time, making sure she wasn't overtired. That way you at least aren't re-training her metabolism in a direction you don't want to go. Prioritize your goals for sleeping and eating, then address the issues related to those goals. Happy sleeping!
Related Posts:
Reader Advice:
  • Tina said...
    Hi - This is for Melissa's post about her baby not liking to be on her back. I had the same issue with my baby who is now 4 months old. I got a sleep positioner at Babies R Us. It is called "Inclined To Sleep" and was around $20. I also started to swaddle her tightly before putting her down. Between being swaddled and wedged in the sleep positioner, she seemed to get over her objection to being on her back. Good luck!
    February 25, 2008 4:20 PM
  • Susanna said...
    I am certainly no expert on techniques to get a LO to nap after waking early but one thing that has somewhat worked for my now 11 week old is that I will leave one hand free out of his swaddle. He STILL continues to nap only about 30 to 45 minutes but if he's left one-handed, he has a tendency to soothe himself and may even fall asleep for an additional 20 or 30 minutes. If he lays quietly in the crib, I am ok with him being wide awake sucking on his hand versus screaming. Just a suggestion...
    April 10, 2008 12:40 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Thanks Susanna, I found that to be true with my daughter also.
    April 10, 2008 1:49 PM
Reader Questions:
  • Mom2Cohen said...
    Another question for you. When he is napping (as he is now)...if he wakes up 20-30 minutes before he is "supposed" to do I just leave him in there or do I go ahead and get him and then just wait to feed him?
    December 28, 2007 9:19 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    If it is that close to time to get up, I would just get him up. I definitely wouldn't leave him there to cry for 20 minutes. Right now I would be focusing on getting a 2.5-3 hour schedule. So if it has been 2.5 hours, just feed him. If not, and it is that close, get him up, and:1-you could put him in a swing or somewhere he is happy and content until it has been 2.5 hours2-you could just play with him and entertain him until it has been 2.5 hours. This will work toward getting his metabolism stabilized for the 2.5 hour mark. If he is really hungry and ready to eat, of course feed him. When he wakes early, be sure to take that into account when calculating his waketime. An overtired baby will take longer to cry to sleep and will wake up early from the next nap. [see these posts for more: Waketime When Baby Wakes Early : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/waketime-when-baby-wakes-early.html Waketime When They Wake Early: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/waketime-when-they-wake-early.html]
    December 28, 2007 9:52 AM
  • jpo said...
    Hi there, I appreciate your site - it's helpful to hear from people who ascribe to Babywise but also have hiccups here and there with implementing it. I'm currently struggling with my daughter's naps. She is 5 months old and a wonderful night sleeper since 2 months, by the book! But, she started waking early from naps when she was about 2-3 months old and I didn't really catch that this was a problem right away. So, now it is a pretty ingrained habit that she wakes after 40 minutes. SO, I have a few questions...I hope I'm not asking too much but any insight on any of these would be helpful.
    1. I'm trying CIO but I can tell it will take a while for her to get it...I noticed that you said Kaitlyn took a month to sleep train - is that a reasonable time table for really cementing getting her to go back to sleep on her own?
    2. I was also a little confused about when you would feed Kaitlyn if she woke up early. You mentioned that after 10 minutes you'd feed her but with CIO, I've had to let her cry for 45 minutes sometimes. I guess I'm not sure how to deal with whether it is the 45 minutes intruder (feeding) or a sleep problem and so I need to just train her to go back to sleep. I'm sorry this is a bit confusing - I am in the heat of sleep training and I'm a bit discouraged. Thanks so much!
    January 28, 2008 1:39 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    The time table is hard to predict. Kaitlyn's month for sleep training was how long it took before she rarely cried before a nap at all. In talking about nighttime sleep training, Babywise says the average is 3-5 days (see page 132), but it can take longer than that. I would plan on two weeks.When I was learning Kaitlyn's cries, I would put her in the swing when she woke early. The swing always put her right out. So I knew if she didn't fall asleep within 10 minutes, she was hungry. If she did fall asleep, I knew she was waking for some other reason. If you are sure your baby isn't hungry, you would wait longer than 10 minutes. What have you done in the past? You say you didn't really realize it was a problem until recently. Have you just been feeding her when she wakes early? If you have always been feeding her, then it likely wouldn't be a feeding problem. But if you have always been holding her off to eat, it might be a feeding problem. I would review the Naps Troubleshooting post:http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.htmlGood luck!
    January 28, 2008 2:45 PM
  • Sara Louise! said... 2 questions- First, my baby is 5 weeks today and I have not been putting her in her crib to nap. I know (NOW) that I should have been from day 1-but I didn't know then. Should I start to put her in her crib to nap- where she cries and will consequently miss a whole nap cycle- or should I keep focusing on night time sleep then focus on daytime sleep once she's STTN? Thanks so much for your blog- I have found it to be so helpful!
    February 17, 2008 9:15 AM
    Sara Louise! said... Here's my second question- a friend with much success on BW has me on a nighttime feeding schedule where each nighttime feeding gets pushed back 15 min each night. That is, tonight I'm supposed to feed at 12 am and 4:30 am, then tomorrow it would be 12:15 am and 4:45 am, and so on, so that in 10 days or so I'd only have one nighttime feeding, then about 10 days after that I'd be down to none, and she'd be going from 7 pm to 7 am. However, I'd be satisfied with her sleeping just 8 hours- ie feeding her at 11pm and her going until 7 am. Would it work if I fed her at 11 pm and then kept pushing back the nighttime feedings by 15 min, but keeping the 11 pm each night? Then once she's sleeping 8 hours I could bump the 11 pm one UP by 15 min- ie 10:45 one night, 10:30 the next and so on? Again, thanks so much for your help!
    February 17, 2008 9:20 AM
    Plowmanators said... QUESTION #1: Where does she nap otherwise? If it is in your arms, I would put her to sleep in her crib instead starting now even for naps. Nighttime sleep will be more likely to be uninterrupted if she can soothe herself and is also familiar and comfortable with her sleeping environment. But if she is sleeping in a bassinet or something, I don't see anything wrong with that. Kaitlyn slept in both her crib and bassinet until she was nearly 7 months old. QUESTION #2: So are you waking baby up for these feedings at night? Prior to 5 weeks old, you don't let more than 5 hours of sleep go by without a feeding in the night if you are nursing. After 5 weeks, you can let 7-8 hours go by if baby will do it. So to wake at 12:00 and 4:30 means you are going more often than necessary. I for one would squeeze every minute of sleep out that I could :). Also, the schedule is very, very premature. Your baby shouldn't be sleeping 12 hours at night until 16-24 weeks old. That is quite some time from 5 weeks. Between weeks 9-15 weeks, you can move to 9-10 hours of sleep. Your baby likely won't be sleeping 7-8 hours at night consistently until about 8 weeks old. 15% don't start that until 10-12 weeks old. At 5 weeks old, I would do a dreamfeed (usually somewhere around 10-11 PM) if she will, then let baby wake when she will (not wake her up at all in the night), and then wake and feed her at your determined waketime in the morning to start your day.Let me know if you have any other questions!
    February 17, 2008 2:45 PM
    Sara Louise! said... Thanks for your responses! Regarding the naps- I usually put her in her Moses basket for napping. I try to put her down at the same time after each feeding so that we're establishing some kind of routine. I also try not to let her go to sleep in my arms so that she's not dependent on it. The only exception is if she's been fussy and the only way to get her to nap is to put her in my arms. Regarding the nighttime feeding-WOW- are there babies out there who would do a dream feed and then not wake for 7-8 hours?? I want one! Mine is not one of them, unfortunately! When I feeed her at 12 and 4:30, that's after she's already been awake for over 30 min crying. The longest she's gone is maybe 5 hours, but that was the exception, not the rule. I know what you're thinking- maybe I should try to feed her more- but at those feedings it's usually about a 5 oz bottle! We've had several problems with throwing up, so I'm hesitant to go over 5 oz (her daytime bottles are usually 3.5-4 oz)When you say most babies at 8 weeks will go 7-8 hrs- is this by something I've done, or just miraculously one night she will actually go 7 hours after the dream feed? I ask this because my friend has me pushing back each feeding by 15 min in order to get her used to eating later and later each night. Again- I really appreciate your help!
    February 17, 2008 2:59 PM
    Plowmanators said... The schedule your friend has you doing makes more sense now! Does she have reflux? Is that why she throws up?When the baby starts sleeping 7-8 hours, it is a result of the work that has been put in, but not necessarily as a result of crying in the night. Some babies require some crying in the night. Most sleep that long without having to CIO at night, but some do need it.If I were you, this is what I would do:1-If your baby will do a Dreamfeed (between 10-11 at night), I would start that.2-I would then let her sleep until she wakes up. Once she woke up, at her age, I would just feed her and then put her right back to bed. The reason for this is that she is still young. You don't need to be worrying about her nightwakings yet. They aren't ideal, but she is still young. I think it is better to work on daytime issues first because they often fix the nighttime issues. Also, it is easier to work through things in the light of the day (emotionally and mentally).3-The first thing I would work on is getting the daytime schedule consistent. See the Getting a Consistent Schedule post. 4-You also want to get her ability to self-soothe down. She is likely waking up and looking to you to comfort her back to sleep. Work on that in the day. See the CIO bootcamp post. Once those things are established, then I would start to consider working on nighttime issues if they haven't started to fix themselves. Like I said, most babies start to sleep 8 hours at 8 weeks. Some are 10-12 hours. I would wait until 12 weeks old to force the issue, but I do know people who have done it sooner successfully. But I would wait at least until 8 or 9 weeks before crying at night. Good luck in your endeavors!
    February 17, 2008 4:01 PM
    Sara Louise! said... Again, thanks so much for all your advice! One more question- I do have her on a 3 hour schedule during the day- I start every day at the same time and feed within 3 hours up until the 7pm feeding. When do you think she could move to 3.5 hours? There are several feedings that I am still waking her up for during the day. Ironic, since at night I NEVER have to wake her up for a feeding!
    February 17, 2008 7:28 PM
    Plowmanators said... Between 5-8 weeks, your baby might be able to do a combo 2.5-3.5 hour schedule. If she has a time of day she consistently can go longer, while another time of day she seems to need to go shorter, you could do a 3.5 for one and a 2.5 for another.I wouldn't move to a 3.5 schedule for each feeding until she is no longer eating in the night and sleeping at least 9 consecutive hours. The reason for this is that if you extend the schedule you will drop a feeding in the day. You don't want to drop day feedings before night feedings. Be sure you are getting those wake times in the day to be awake (if you aren't). That should help get the night and day sorted out. I know when Kaitlyn was 5 weeks, we were still working on some wake times. She couldn't stay awake for all of them. February 18, 2008 9:47 AM
  • annbo said...
    I left a comment about starting my daughter (7 weeks) on CIO) but I can't remember where it went to.Anyhows, I have a que. I just started her this morning. She sleeps after 1 hour (thank God!) but after a little while, she'll wake and cry again. and if I left her, she'll fall back to sleep, but only for 5 mins, and she's up crying again. This went on for the entire cycle. Then I picked her at 3 hour mark, fed her and she looked tired, I put her back. She fell asleep after a whimper. But one hour later, she's crying again. and she fell back to sleep after a min of crying, only to wake and cry again after a couple mins. Is there something I should check? Or is she just going through the process of learning?btw, before CIO, she would also wake and sleep ALL the time if she's put down. But on us sometimes she can sleep forever, sometimes she sleeps on and off too.
    February 29, 2008 11:40 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Annbo, See the Blog Index--that is where you posted your first question and I responded.For this question, part of it is definitely the process of learning. They seem to have some really rough days while starting out. She needs to learn how to soothe herself so she can fall back asleep after she wakes up. She will get it. Again, I recommend you see the CIO Bootcamp post on this blog.While she is learning, you can try the moving her to a swing when she wakes early like I outline in this post. That is, if she can do it and still stay on track. It is good to keep them as well-rested as possible through the process.
    February 29, 2008 2:03 PM
  • Susanna said...
    Valerie,My 6 week old son sleeps like an angel during the night; he goes anywhere from 5 1/2 to 7 hours at night! During the day though, it is a different story. I put him down about an hour after feeding (he has acid reflux so his GI doctor wants him upright for at least 20 minutes before laying down) and he will fuss for at least 20 minutes before finally falling asleep. He sleeps for at the most 30 minutes and then wails for the rest of naptime.

    Sometimes, he will fall back asleep for about 5 minutes and then wake up wailing again. We have tried CIO and also the swing but my question is, do I use the swing each time? Won't that teach him that he can use that sleep prop consistently and never fall asleep on his own? By what age or time frame did you find that your babies were able to fall asleep on their own? I know the stabilization phase takes time but what is a general time frame that I can anticipate? Why do you suppose my son sleeps SO well at night? Is he just exhausted from not getting enough rest during the day? Thank you!
    March 5, 2008 11:04 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    It is quite possible for him to be sleeping well at night since he is not sleeping well in the day, but a lot of times bad day ends up being bad night, too. You will have to decide what the swing will teach him. I think for my oldest, it wouldn't have been a good thing. I had to leave him in his bed until he fell asleep. He was a challenge. For my youngest, though, it was not a problem. I mostly used it to finish a nap, so she had already fallen asleep on her own once. I can't remember the exact length of time, but I am thinking we used the swing for 2-3 weeks to finish out a nap before she slept through on her own. You want to give enough time for him to fall asleep on his own. You don't want to do only 20 minutes and then move to the swing. He needs a real opportunity to learn. I started Kaitlyn at one week, and Brayden at 9 weeks for CIO. It took both about 2 months before they consistently didn't cry at all for naps--to get to the point that I knew if they were crying, something was wrong. But some need a few minutes of crying for a year or more. It does get better--hang in there!
    March 5, 2008 2:07 PM
  • david, blair, and sadie beth said...
    This is a great blog! Thank you for taking the time to post so much helpful info. My name is Blair and I have a 5 1/2 month old daughter. We've used BW fairly consistently with Sadie Beth since she was born. She is a very easy-going, happy baby and transitioned into a schedule fairly quickly. Now, she is on a 4 hour schedule and is still exclusively breastfed though we are starting cereal this weekend. We did a little CIO at the beginning, but now she RARELY cries going down for naps and if she does it is usually only 5-15 minutes. She never cries going down for the night. My question is about naptimes...we have been dealing with 45 minute naps since she was about 8 or 9weeks old. I've tried to let her CIO when she wakes up, but we aren't having too much luck with that. She doesn't seem to be waking out of hunger either. She isn't waking "happy" but is perfectly happy once she is up and playing or whatever. Usually I wait til her next scheduled time to feed her. Should I be feeding her when she wakes? It seems if I do that it would get her off schedule for the whole day. Also, just within the last 2-3 weeks, she has been waking early 5:30-6:30 rather than her 7:30am start time, which used to be clockwork. I think her early waking is likely a result of having been sick, teething, new developmental milestones, etc. I have been leaving her in her crib usually til close to 7:30 as she stays pretty content. However, she seems to be getting overtired when I keep her up til her first nap at 9:30...should I adjust that naptime when she wakes early? I'm sorry this is so lengthy...I appreciate your help!
    March 6, 2008 1:47 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    I am glad you like the blog!Have you seen the troubleshooting naps posts?Easy Nap Fix: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/easy-nap-fix.html45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.htmlNaps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.htmlOnce you have gone through that, is she not hungry at 3 hours? If she is, I would just go back to the 3 hour (or combo schedule--3-3.5 hours for example) until she can make it to 4 hours on her own. Yes, I would adjust that first naptime to be earlier when she wakes early in the morning. If she is too tired, she will take longer to fall asleep and will also not sleep well (as explained in the Easy Nap Fix post, see that for more on that concept). Good luck, and please feel free to ask questions as needed!
    March 6, 2008 4:02 PM
    david, blair, and sadie beth said...
    I think I already posted this comment once, but I think it disappeared into the blogosphere. I'm sorry if it reappears and is posted twice. I have read through the troubleshooting naps posts, and there was some great info in those. Thank you! I did shorten her wake time this morning by about 15 minutes and she napped for almost an hour, so I will continue trying that I think. CIO doesn't seem to be working when she wakes up from her naps. She will cry until she is hysterical and doesn't settle back to sleep. When I get her up from the 45 minute naps she is happy and sweet. I agree with adjusting the first naptime to be earlier when she wakes early in the morning. However, what do you think about the following nap times? She is not hungry if I try to feed her before the 4 hour mark in the mornings and won't take a full feeding. We are on more of a 3 hour schedule in the evening. I think my milk supply is definitely lower then. If she wakes early from a nap, I wait until her next approx. scheduled feeding time, and then adjust her wake time before her next nap, then it seems to me by the end of the day we will have lost the eat-wake-sleep pattern. If I don't adjust her wake time, then it seems she is destined for more short naps because she will get OT. What do you think? Am I making sense or am I totally off base? Thanks!Blair
    March 7, 2008 9:05 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Blair, Several women have recently found that CIO in the nap suddenly did the trick. They tried it at a younger age with no luck. Then they tried it again, and it worked that time. It it isn't working, move on, but don't be affraid to try it again if needed.You are making sense. There really isn't an easy solution other than to continue to try to deal with the nap issues and wait for things to get better. I have a friend who would get her daughter up, play with her until she was tired (which didn't take very long) and then put her back down for a nap. So she got two 45 minute naps during her nap time. Now, that baby sleeps through without the intermission. It might not work for all babies, but it is an idea for you!
    March 7, 2008 10:43 AM
  • Susanna said...
    Valerie, Thank you for your advice. I have another question. In the last two days, I've noticed my 6 week old will go down for a nap with little fussing but he only sleeps for a few minutes. (We have a video baby monitor so I'm able to see what he's up to!) He shows all the cues of sleepiness before being laid down but once in the crib, he seems to either lay there and kick his legs or cry. I have been letting him CIO without picking him up but is there a way to teach him to actually sleep during naptime? I'm assuming that is something he will need to learn on his own but I hate that the entire time he's down for a nap (I've shortened wake time to give him up to 2 hours for naps!), he's getting at the most 30 minutes of very light napping. Any suggestions? We've tried to get him to nap better for the past two weeks and it seems like he's still not getting it. Thanks!!
    March 7, 2008 9:35 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Susanna, Kaitlyn did that a bit. Two times, I had her CIO back to sleep and did it just fine.Keep in mind the 6 week growth spurt. Also, it is pretty normal. While they are learning, they have their good and bad days, and bad days can last a while. Just keep being consistent and figure out the best way to respond for your LOs personality. Also, if he has fallen asleep then wakes up after a short time, you can try moving him to a swing if he will sleep there. That way he stays well rested and can continue to have the best chance of success. This is assuming he will do this without detrimental effects to the overall process ;)
    March 7, 2008 10:54 AM
  • Susanna said...
    Hi Valerie, More nap questions! I thought I may have read that your son didn't nap for longer than 45 minutes until 6.5 months old. Is this true? If so, that gives me some hope since I am feeling quite frustrated that my 7 week old son naps for 30 minutes and then wakes up and possibly sleeps an additional 10 minutes. Here are my questions for you, if you don't mind...1. How much time should I allot for naps? Currently, I feed him, keep him upright about 10 minutes (due to reflux) and then put him down until his next feeding. So I'm usually allotting about 1.5 to 2 hours for naps but obviously, that doesn't mean he naps for that long. I'm not sure I can shorten wake time much more unless I move from a 3 hour schedule to 3 1/2 hours...2. When hedoes wake early (usually 30 minutes into his nap, he will wake up crying) and I put him in the swing for the remainder of the nap and he doesn't necessarily fall asleep right away, should I wake him for the next feeding or let him go a little longer so that he's well rested? So, is it better to stay on schedule or for him to get some rest? 3. What if he is in his crib during nap time but isn't sleeping (or crying). He's just laying there and may get at most 30 minutes of sleep. Would you leave him alone or move him to a swing to see it that encourages true sleep. 4. Lastly, unrelated to napping, how long does BW consider a full feeding? My son was feeding for 30 minutes total but in the last couple of weeks, he only goes about 20 minutes. Is this normal since he's a little older and maybe has a stronger suck and is able to get the milk faster?Thank you so much!!
    March 11, 2008 3:16 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Susanna,Yes, my son was that way. He was my difficult one, but he taught me a lot :)1. waketime is going to depend on how long he can stay awake, really. At 7 weeks, you can plan on about 45 minutes to an hour total of waketime (includes feeding). I do have posts on wake time if you need them.2.I would probably wake when it is time to eat. You want his metabolism to get used to eating at the same times each day so he is hungry at the same time each day. If he is too tired, give him a few minutes and try again, but don't go more than 30 minutes over. If you do feed him late, try to feed him on time for the next feeding. Otherwise, each day will be different.3.If he isn't crying, I would leave him.4.This depends on the baby. For example, it took my son close to an hour at your son's age to get a full feeding in. My daughter, however, took at most 20 minutes at that age. Some babies are more efficient nursers than others. My son moved to 30 minute sessions, while my daughter moved to 5-8 minute sessions. So a full feeding is however long it takes him to eat :)
    March 12, 2008 10:04 AM
  • Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie, I am still having such a hard time with this first nap of the day. I tried shortening the waketime, also extending it, but he's been having some rought nights this week and I'm wondering if he needs an even shorter waketime. Anyway, he makes little sounds and seems to be close to falling asleep for 45 minutes into the nap, then starts crying. He will cry for a few minutes, then be quiet, and when I spied on him yesterday :) he was starting to fall asleep during those few quiet minutes, and then wakes up crying again. The other day I got him at this point and put him in the stroller to see if he'd sleep. He slept for about 50 minutes then woke up crying. I just fed him early and started over, we were only 30 min. early. Then the next nap, he wasn't sleeping, so I started getting concerned he would miss most of that nap too, so I went in after 30ish minutes and put him in the swing. That made him really mad and he screamed the rest of the nap. The rest of our naps that day were pretty off and they have honestly been off ever since. That was Monday. I am wondering if I just really messed up a no-interference sleeper that day?Since it appears to me he's a no interference sleeper, (but what do you think?) do you think I have any other options for this nap that he doesn't fall asleep besides CIO the entire nap period of 2-2.5 hrs? This is the only nap that this consistently happens every day, for the last week. It happens sometimes at other naps, but never the same one every day, and it's more rare.Thanks in advance for your time and help!
    March 14, 2008 11:43 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    It does sound like he is a no-interference type. My son was that way. I couldn't interfere, or naps got worse for DAYS. I just had to leave him be. If he was still awake after a long time, I would get him up when the interval got to a 2.5 hour feeding schedule. Right now I would worry more about the CIO training than the exact schedule. I would continue to shorten that first waketime to see if that helps.
    March 15, 2008 9:19 AM
  • Catherine said...
    Thanks so much Valerie. I have shortened his waketime to 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 26 minutes- and also tried 30 mi, 38 min, 40 min- to no avail! I feel like going down to 15 min. is just too short! Sometimes I feel like it has nothing to do with his waketime but he just does not like sleeping that first nap of the day after having been in bed all night. Have you ever heard of anything like that? He will either make little sounds to himself for 45 mintes then cry, or be totally fine and then as soon as I put him in the crib start wailing. If that's the case, I will just let him CIO until he can get the hang of sleeping sometime during the nap. What are your thoughts?
    March 15, 2008 2:14 PM
    Catherine said...
    P.S. In your sleep training, have you ever had baby fall asleep for about 20 minutes at various points in the nap just to wake up again? The other day he did this in the middle of the nap, today more in the beginning.
    March 15, 2008 6:27 PM
    Catherine said...
    Meaning, during CIO.
    March 15, 2008 6:28 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    If he has no improved results with varying the waketime, I would just put it so the nap would last 1-1.5 hours in theory. Then go from there and let him cry, but if he doesn't ever falll asleep, I would get him at your 2.5 hour interval.Yes, I have had that (wake after a few minutes of sleep). Brayden did that. I would always get him up if he had fallen asleep and move forward with the schedule.While a consistent schedule is nice, it can be hard to do while sleep training. Do what you can (start each day at the same time, put down for naps in time, etc.) but don't drive yourself crazy trying to get the exact times right. Just get him trained, then focus on the times for the schedule.
    March 15, 2008 9:17 PM
    Catherine said...
    Thanks Valerie-I tried that this morning. I was going to keep him up for 1.5 hrs so the nap would be 1.5 hrs in theory- After 41 minutes he got so fussy and started crying so much that I just put him down. He cried for 5 minutes and then for 54 minutes he was in there, mostly quiet, although I would hear him making some sounds intermittently. I went in and looked at him, and he had his eyes closed & was his hand in his mouth, he didn't exactly look asleep- just maybe calmed or soothed, but I don't know for sure. After 54 minutes he started crying, and stopped after 2 minutes. Then he started crying again after 16 minutes, and kept crying for about 20 minutes. Then he stopped for another 20 minutes, and then cried again. At this point it was 2.45 hrs and I just fed him. Should I keep trying to extend the waketime? Or should I just keep it as it is every other time of the day? Do you think he is just soothing himself for these intervals, but never quite getting all the way to sleep? I can't seem to tell, since he does get quiet it's confusing. He used to just scream the whole way through and that was easier to tell! :) I can't seem to figure out what's going on with this 45-55 minute thing, he is quiet and then starts crying at this point through a couple naps per day. Without fail though it's this first morning nap.Last night he did the same thing- but he was quiet for 40 minutes after crying for 35. I went in and looked at him and he was laying there quiet, with his eyes closed and little mouth moving a lot.If he is actually asleep, is this part of the CIO process where they cry, fall asleep and then wake up and cry again? Is this something he'll grow out of? Or do you think he may just be soothed but not actually asleep?
    March 16, 2008 12:34 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    At his age, waketime should be more like one hour. I would start there. Don't try to extend his waketime beyond that, just let it naturally happen. Also, he is young enough to have very loud sleeping cycles. My guess is he was asleep. Newborns are restless sleepers.When he wakes up and it is a 2.5 hour interval, I would get him up.Most babies will cry once they wake up until they are around 5 months. Some continue beyond that. Also, it is normal to not have as long of naps at first while he is trying to learn to fall asleep on his own. He will learn.
    March 16, 2008 10:04 PM
  • Susanna said...
    Valerie-When you say that Brayden only napped for 45 minutes until 6.5 months, do you mean he would wake up happy and rested after such a short nap? My 8 week old son does only nap about 40 minutes or so (usually the duration of his womb noise cd! although that isn't always consistent) but he is not happy, just always crabby! Did you have your son just stay in the crib to teach him that it is still nap time? I've been reading Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and the author says that it is quite normal for a colicky/reflux baby to sleep for 30-40 minute spurts but I still get frustrated when all my mommy friends assure me their little ones slept all through their naps at my son's age!!! What do you think? I posted a comment under Waking Earlier than Waketime but I'm not sure you got it... Thank you!!
    March 17, 2008 10:01 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    He was okay, though he was much better once he started sleeping 2 hours instead. Mostly, he could go longer for waketimes once his naps got longer. I always just got him up and fed him--continued on with the schedule.Kaitlyn has reflux, and her sleep was not as good as I think it would have otherwise been without it. So I do think reflux can have an effect. You might find he meets sleeping milestones a little later than most. Not true for all reflux babies, but it is for many.
    March 17, 2008 11:17 AM
    Susanna said...
    Thank you, Valerie. I just want to clarify one thing. Do you mean that once he awoke after 45 minutes, you would immediately get him up for the next feeding or did you leave him in the crib until the appropriate time? Maybe I'm confused as to how to stay on a schedule. Currently we are on a 3 hour schedule and so if he wakes early from naptime, I am just waiting him out until feeding time (unless I think it is truly hunger). Please clarify. Thank you!
    March 17, 2008 12:42 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    I got him up right away, but I don't necessarily think that was the best thing to do. It is just what I did. With Kaitlyn, I always tried to move her to the swing first. If she fell asleep, good. If not, I fed her then (I gave it about 10 minutes). I also have a friend who got her son up and played with him until feeding time. I have another friend who got her daughter up and played with her until she got tired again. She then put her back down to finish off the nap. Others have had success with CIO, but those are usually 5 months or older.There are a lot of options. Test and see what works best for your son. Good luck!
    March 17, 2008 3:36 PM
  • Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie, Thanks so much for your time and help!This last week my son has been waking consistently from his naps around 1 hr. exactly. He will either: cry for 10 minutes then fall back to sleep, then cry intermittently and sleep intermittently until I get him up, cry softly for a few minutes then fall back asleep, or cry for 10 minutes, then fall back asleep. Is this a waketime amt. issue or a sleep training issue? Any suggestions?
    March 19, 2008 4:49 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    You are welcome!Keep in mind that for his age and schedule, 1 hour is an acceptable length of sleep. It sounds good to let him have 10-15 minutes to see if he will fall back asleep. Then if not, get him up and go along with the schedule.
    March 20, 2008 11:00 AM
    Catherine said...
    Thanks so much for your thoughts Valerie. As an experiment today I cut back his waketime by 5 minutes. His naps went up from 1 hour to 1.45- 2.5 hours. I am just wondering- he does not sleep the same amount of time each nap. This leaves us feeding anywhere in between 2 hours 20 minutes- 3 hours. Is this ok? I don't want to wait to feed him because it gives him too much waketime, so I can't think of any other alternative- but wanted to makes sure I wasn't messing up his metabolism. It also doesn't make for a super scheduled day, but oh well! Just wanted to see your thoughts.
    March 21, 2008 1:13 AM
    Catherine said...
    P.S. By 1.45 I mean 1 hour 45 minutes. His naps are anywhere from 1 hour 45 minutes to 2.5 hours.
    March 21, 2008 1:14 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Yes, a combo schedule is perfectly fine.If I were you, I would take notes on how long his waketimes are and naps are at different points in the day. Once you see a pattern, you can construct a schedule based on what he can do. Then you will have more predictability!
    March 21, 2008 10:11 AM
  • Susanna said...
    Valerie-Catherine's comments made me think of another nap question!:) We may have made a breakthrough with my son's napping this week. Once he goes down, he still catnaps for anywhere b/w 30-45 minutes but then just sort of whimpers and plays in the crib (instead of screaming the entire time...I think that is progress, don't you?:)) and may in fact fall back asleep for 5-10 minutes at a time. I've just left him in the crib until the next scheduled feeding; I hadn't thought about considering the amount of time he's awake in the crib as waketime. Oops! Would you suggest feeding once I think he's fully awake or waiting him out in the crib to see if he'll catch a few more ZZs? Or should I wait to see what napping pattern develops over the next week or so and go from there? Thank you SO much for your help!!
    March 21, 2008 11:23 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Susanna,Watching for patterns is always a good idea. I would give him time, but watch for that moment when you know he won't go back to sleep. I would get him up once he won't sleep anymore and continue on with your cycle. Things sound like they are improving!
    March 22, 2008 10:38 PM
  • momtobobby said...
    Hi! Me again:) I have a nap question. My 11 week old takes 3 naps a day, but he doesn't sleep solid the whole time. We are on a three hour schedule and his first two naps are 1 1/2 hours in length and he wakes periodically crying. His cry times last from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. His last nap is 1 1/2 hours and sometimes he doesn't sleep at all. He crys almost the whole time. Is his waketime too long? Thanks for the help!!
    April 1, 2008 4:58 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    I assume he has 1.5 hours of waketime? That is likely too long for an 11 week old. You could try moving it back bit by bit and see if you can figure out his right waketime length.
    April 2, 2008 10:33 PM
  • Catherine said...
    Hi Valerie,Thanks sooo much for all your energy and help! I am so thankful I found this blog. I am having serious napping issues the last two weeks. We were on a great schedule, he was napping great at day (anywhere from 2.5 hrs to 1 hr. 45 minutes) and sleeping anywhere from 6.5-8 hrs at night. Then Easter came. My son is very intense and easily overstimulated. He was worn out from church, then we had lunch with family. He was awake for 2.5 hours with everyone passing him around and playing with him. He napped extra when we got home and I thought everything would be fine. But then the next night (Mon night.) we had a horrible night and things have been off track ever since! I cannot get him to nap longer than 1 hour or 1 hr 10 minutes. He has not slept longer than 5 1/2 hrs at night.The ONLY time I have been able to get him to nap longer is when I got him up as soon as he woke up (after 1 hr 10 min) fed him, and put him down to bed without even a diaper change. He slept for 2 hours, but still woke up fussy and cranky.I thought it might be a growth spurt. (he was 9 weeks) I fed him and he would eat but fall asleep the whole time. Now I am positive he is not hungry. He falls asleep while nursing and eats slowly. (Very abnormal for him.)He just seems tired.I have tried the swing, I have tried getting him up and starting over with a feeding just to keep him from being OT, and I still can't get him to sleep longer. Now I have been letting him CIO to just get the time in between feeds but he just cries and cries and doesn't fall back asleep, he gets hysterical by the 2.5 hr mark.I am at the end of my rope and at a complete loss. Usually when this happens I cut waketime back and his naps are seamless. But it just seems I can't get him down fast enough! I don't know what to do. Do you have any thoughts for me? Thanks in advance for your time and help, I REALLY appreciate it!
    April 3, 2008 3:56 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Catherine,If your son is easily disrupted, then he might have a hard time getting back after disruptions. Check the troubleshooting naps post. Beyond that, I would say consistency is your best bet. Try to stay home and just get him back on track. Good luck!
    April 6, 2008 9:55 PM
  • hunter'smom said...
    I am still having problems with my 4 month old son napping. If he lays down for his morning nap at 9:00 am, doesn't that throw the whole day off because he won't sleep from 9-12 which is when his next feeding is. So, if he wakes at 10:30 then he should be laying down by 12. I'm confused on this. He will only nap for 1 hour at each nap. And can you give me a sample schedule for a 4 month old? Thank you!
    April 5, 2008 5:02 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Hunter's Mom, If your baby can't stay awake long enough and then nap long enough to make a four hour schedule, you don't really want to move to a four hour schedule for this reason. If he absolutely won't eat sooner than four hours, then you need to just basically be patient with the situation until he can stay up longer. The longest a nap would be is 2.5 hours. See this post:Sample Schedules : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/sample-schedules.html
    Also
    , this:When to Move to a 4 hour Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/when-to-move-to-4-hour-schedule.html
    April 6, 2008 10:05 PM
  • Rachel said...
    Hi there. My 5.5 week old will sometimes wake up about 30 minutes into her nap and not fall back to sleep. I let her CIO until the end of her naptime (sometimes about an hour). Is that ok? I will go in once, maybe twice and give her her pacifier, but she will SCREAM for a good hour to an hour and a half--what should I do??
    April 6, 2008 3:42 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Rachel,If it were me, I would only give her about 15-20 minutes to fall back asleep--whatever time period you know she won't fall asleep afterward. Then I would move on to some other method (as described in this post). Good luck!
    April 6, 2008 10:22 PM
    Rachel said...
    Im having such a hard time today. My baby is SCREAMING right now. We are 50 minutes into her nap and she hasnt stopped screaming. She has another 45 minutes to go. How long do I let her cry? She has been fed, changed and is fine in there. What do I do? I have been trying to let her CIO for about 2 weeks now, and these bad days make me feel like it isnt working. She is 6 weeks old.
    April 9, 2008 9:46 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Rachel,That is a normal thout process to have during sleep training. You have to decide what is best for your child. With Brayden, I had to just leave him in his bed. With Kaitlyn, I went in after 20-30 minutes to tell her to go to sleep and she would usually go to sleep within 5 minutes of me leaving. If not, I got her after 45-60 minutes and put her in the swing.
    April 9, 2008 10:24 PM
  • Life Glimpsed: The Denglers said...
    first - i'm so thankful for your blog. :) secondly - here is my question/scenario that i'm having trouble with. i have a 7 week old who won't nap long. she wakes and feeds, then plays before nap. but the time between feeding and nap can sometimes range between 45 min to an hour and then she yawns/ready for nap. she goes right down - normally without a fight at all. BUT, she almost always wakes up 30 minutes to an hour in her nap. this doesn't even allow me to reach a 2hr goal, let alone a 2.5 hour goal. (rarely i can let her cry it out and she'll soothe back to sleep - but she's a determined little lady and will most of the time NOT go back to sleep) she won't finish a nap in a swing or bouncy. once she's up - she's up. help. i want to get her to that 2.5 hour goal, at least.thanks! ashley
    April 9, 2008 12:31 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Denglers,Since she won't sleep in a swing or elsewhere, I would suggest you just try to entertain her until you reach the 2.5 hour mark (if she will make it that far). You will then train the metabolism. Hopefully by training the metabolism and her getting better at soothing herself through a transition, she will make it through the nap. Do you swaddle?
    April 9, 2008 10:40 PM
    Life Glimpsed: The Denglers said...
    you responded to my last comment, but i'm still perplexed. if i keep the baby up until her next feeding - 20-30 minutes after she wakes from nap - i have to account that time into her wake time. by doing this, i have to put her down early in order to get a nap out of her at all. and this leaves me with her now waking up about an hour before her next feeding. so i don't see how i'm to make it to the 2.5 hour mark without having an overly tired baby. help.. thanks :)
    April 10, 2008 9:02 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Denglers,It really isn't an easy answer. What you need to do is break it down into goals. You first want her to eat at 2.5 hour mark. If there is no way she will sleep after waking early, you want to stretch her to the 2.5 hour mark so her metabolism grows accustomed to that interval. You could start with just one interval per day to work on so the sleeping schedule doesn't get too far ahead of itself. Also, if you breastfeed, you will likely need a 2 hour interval between the evening feedings (like 6:30 and then feed again at 8:30). As they get older, this interval does lengthen. If she doesn't need it, you don' thave to do it, but if she does need it, that is completely normal.
    April 10, 2008 1:44 PM
  • susie said...
    Hi, I am having major nap issues at 7 1/2 months. She has slept thru the night since 6 wks old and she is currently on a 4 hour routine with 2 naps a day. However, after laying her down for a nap, she falls right to sleep but ALWAYS wakes up after 30-45 minutes and will NOT go back to sleep. We do this wih both naps, so in the afternoon she needs that catnap b/c she is so cranky. I have tried laying her down 15 minutes earlier and later. I feel she should of had napping down by now...Any suggestions?
    April 9, 2008 3:23 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Susie,One thing, I have found that 5 minutes makes a huge difference with Kaitlyn. Your daughter might be ready for an extended waketime. If her waketime is the same as it was before naps got short, I would try extending it, but by only 5 minutes at at time until you find that magic length. It takes time, but you will get it.
    April 9, 2008 10:47 PM
  • heather said...
    My 6 month old has been having trouble off/on with 30 minute naps. We're down to 3 naps a day, so at 30 minutes a piece...yikes. She's not all that fussy, but I know she should be sleeping more. I don't mind leaving her in her bed after she wakes, which I usually do, but how long should I leave her? She rarely goes back to sleep, but maybe I'm not leaving her long enough.
    April 26, 2008 7:46 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Heather, this is something for you to determine. I have found that baby's are better rested with at least rest time in the crib than they would be if out of the crib. You want to make sure she has enough time out of the crib to eat and play and have a normal waketime session, and that length will depend on how well she can stay up when she wakes early. See the recent Waketime When Baby Wakes Early post from last week for more help on calculating that. See also this post:Eat/Wake/Sleep Cycle: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/eatwakesleep-cycle.html
    April 28, 2008 9:43 AM
  • Charlotte said...
    My 11 week old has dropped his nap during the 5 pm to 8 pm window. If I put him down he screams until he vomits and doesn't fall asleep no matter what until 10 or 10:15. If I let him play then I can feed him at 5, 8 and again at 10:30 or 11 with a nap at 9:30. His daytime naps have shortened too with the first one ending 30-45 minutes early but he is perfectly content when he wakes up to just be awake without having to eat early. Should I let him get up and have wake time again or should I let him cry? What should I let him do during the 5-8 pm window?
    May 20, 2008 8:41 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Your son is early dropping a nap at that age, but if that is what he is ready for, he is ready for it :). For daytime naps, he is close to growth spurt age, so I would first feed him and see if he needs to eat. If not, I wouldn't CIO at with only 30 minutes left to eat. If he is content, I would leave him in the bed for a bit (they will wait longer to eat if you aren't holding them), then perhaps have him wait about 15 minutes after you get him up. See the eat/wake/sleep cycle post:Eat/Wake/Sleep Cycle: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/eatwakesleep-cycle.html
    May 21, 2008 11:25 PM
  • LEM said...
    This is such a helpful site! My son is 4-weeks old and we are now starting to have nap issues. We are on a 3-hour schedule so I out him down for his naps between 1 and 1.5 hours at the end of the cycle. Lately, as if he had an internal alarm, he wakes up 30 minutes into his nap crying. I'm debating whether or no to let him CIO or go sooth him to sleep. His pacifier usually woks but then I'm in there every 10 minutes when it falls out! What could be causing this and what should I do to solve this issue? I have no problems at night for some reason and I think it's because I don't keep him awake but let him sleep as soon as he's done feeding.
    June 16, 2008 9:32 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Wow, there are a lot of posts here I was never notified of! LEM, 4 weeks is a big growth spurt, so he is likely hungry. I would try feeding him and see what happens. He also could be overly tired. My guess is he needs 60 minutes or less of wake time.
    June 24, 2008 10:21 AM
  • Zasha said...
    LEM,I am in the exact situation as you are in. My son is 6 weeks old.Valerie,I am on Day-2 of Self-Settling/CIO training for my son but I am only doing it for his naps ( 3-4 times a day). I lay him down drowsy but awake. He cries a little and then goes down but wakes up each time after 30 minutes!It is impossible to get him back to sleep. The pacifier is more of a problem as I need to pick it up each time it falls. He also seems to fight the swaddle. So, I've been letting him CIO and checking on him every 10-15 minutes and patting him. He stops crying then 5 minutes later starts again.I don't have the courage to do his for his night sleep. Do you think this method works? i.e. self-settling/CIO for day naps first and then move on to night sleep?Thanks as always.Zasha,Tokyo,Japan
    June 18, 2008 2:16 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Zasha,6 weeks is also a growth spurt time, and a crucial time to the breastfeeding mom. I had the same plan as you only reverse; I was going to do night first, then day. But I quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't fair to do one and not the other. It is confusing. Consistency is key with CIO, so cutting out night or day removes consistency.Also, consider dropping that pacifier. You can keep it if you want to, but be aware that it might be the root cause for many problems until he can put it in himself (usually 6-8 months old). Some moms find no problems with the pacifier, and those moms usually have a "no re-insert" or "re-insert 1 time" policy. Check out the pacifier post: Pacifiers : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/pacifiers.html
    June 24, 2008 10:25 AM
  • Kim said...
    I have been attempting to use the feed/wake/sleep program since my son was born (5 weeks). He took to it in the beginning but has regressed. We've had to change his formula several times due to colic/acid reflux. For the past two weeks he doesn't want to take any day naps and falls asleep at the bottle. I have tried to maintain a 3 hour schedule but it's becoming very difficult. I've also tried to keep him awake after the bottle and that's difficult also. At night/firt morning feed he wakes at his exact feed times (12, 3, 6am). We tried CIO yesterday and he only got 3 hours of sleep during the day. His longest CIO was 58 minutes on/off. I tried moving him to the swing to hold him off but, it only worked for one period. Any suggestions on how to break the "sleep at the bottle habit"? Any suggestions on getting him to sleep during the day? Also, I'll be returning to work in 2 weeks how do you maintain a schedule if the child goes to daycare?
    June 24, 2008 6:26 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Kim,Good question. I will do a post on daycare, but will have to do some research since I stay home. To break the sleep at the bottle, you will just have to try to get some naps in there. Your lack of sleep and long crying sessions are normal for the beginning of CIO. Just stay consistent. Practice ideas on this post for helping to get some sleep in there, and hang in there!
    June 24, 2008 10:45 AM
  • Ashley & Rhett said...
    hi,i have a question about waking early from naps. my 15 week old son almost always wakes after napping for 45min.-1hour. he "rarely" sleeps longer than that. if i feed him, he won't eat because he's not hungry that soon. he's usually awake for about an hour. i put him right down as soon as i see his sleepy cues. he goes down great, just doesn't sleep long. i've tried putting him to sleep earlier, but the same thing happens. so, if he eats at 7:30, sleep at 8:30, wakes up at 9:30 (but won't eat that early), should i just play with him for an hour until it's time to eat? then, he's tired and ready for another nap right after he eats. i've tried the swing - he just stays awake or cries the whole hour. i've tried CIO, and he will cry the entire hour. what to do??
    July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Ashley, I would play with him until it is time to eat. The problem you are going to run in to is that he will start to shift patterns and eat right before naps because he has been up for a long time already. So I would continue to try to figure out why. Have you tried a longer waketime?
    July 14, 2008 10:32 AM
    Ashley & Rhett said...
    Yes - I have tried a longer waketime - which ends in the same results (45 min-1hr. nap). I guess I'm at a loss right now. I feel like I'm doing it all wrong. :(I know he's getting close to the age that they drop the 4th nap - should I just try that and see what happens with the other naps??ThanksAshley
    July 15, 2008 11:35 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Ashley, first, wait until the cold is gone. Then start working on it. You can try dropping the fourth nap. In the end, do what you can, but if he only sleeps that long, don't stress about it. One mom I know has a 1 year old who always took short naps. She did everything she could think of. She worked and worked, and her daughter just always took the short nap. So it happens to the best of moms. Just relax and enjoy your baby :)
    July 16, 2008 11:08 AM
  • LEM said...
    My almost 8-week old has been having this trouble with his naps since I can remember (basically since he out grew the "sleepy" phase of the first few weeks). We are on a 3hr schedule and he stays awake for about 1hr. I usually put him down as soon as I see him yawing which is always at the hour mark. I swaddle him and he goes down with no crying and falls asleep after maybe 5-10 minutes. The problem is he is waking in the middle of his naps at different times. He doesn't cry but I can tell he's awake through our video monitor. I think he ends up falling back asleep on and off until his next scheduled feeding. When I come to get him, he is always awake. My question is, is this an indication of anything? Does he need a longer/shorter waketime? Also, should I just leave him be or go get him? I feel bad because he's just laying there all swaddled up with nothing to do!On another note, since following BW I would like some confirmation that I am doing this right and he's doing OK for his age. Like I said, he is on a 3hr schedule starting our day at 7am and the last feeding being at 7pm. He goes to bed at 8pm and I wake him for a dreamfeed at 10pm. After this he wakes up anywhere between 3am an 5am. and then we start our day at 7am (which I usually have to wake him for). Does this sound OK as far as how he's doing with the STTN goal? I feel like he should be dropping that 3-5am feeding soon, it just seems like he'll never get there. Especially since he only tends to eat about 3 ounces of formula at each feeding and I can't get him to eat more. Thanks!
    July 11, 2008 1:35 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    LEM, You might try a shorter waketime. Sometimes even 5 minutes can do the trick. However, it sounds like he is doing fine for himself. I know it seems really borning, but babies are easily entertained. If he is happy, I wouldn't worry abou t it. Your schedule seems fine. Some BW babies don't sleep through until 12 weeks (or later!), so he is just fine. Just keep going. The day will come. :)
    July 14, 2008 10:36 AM
  • The Grewe Crew said...
    Hello! Thank you for your blog. I have checked in daily for your help and have found so much comfort in all of your posts. Here goes my question.I have a 12-week old baby and around 6 weeks she stopped napping in her crib and was only napping in swings, bouncy seats, etc. Now, I believe that it is time and that she CAN nap in her crib, and that I just need to be disciplined and consistent. So today is Day 1! She woke up at 5:40am (20 minutes early) and was back down at 6:20am. She went straight down with no problem. But then she woke up again after only 1.5hrs. So I fed her, she took in a full feeding and was falling asleep. I did about 10 minutes of play and then put her down. It's been an hour now and she is in and out of sleep with some crying. Is this normal? How long should I let her cry during these naps? I'm thinking that if I let her CIO that will eventually train her. I'm fine with that. But I just think I need some reassurance and guidance for my new plan. If she cries for an hour, is that too long? It's not because she is dirty, hurt or anything else. I know it's just fussiness. Any advice would help! I tried finding a comment or post but didn't have much luck. Thank you for your help!
    August 11, 2008 10:37 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Grewe Crew,First, 1.5 hours is a great nap length, so I wouldn't worry about that (if you were). Second, one thing to do is to try to get a total of about 1 hour of waketime from her (including feedings). She will only nap the right length is she has had the right length of waketime. There are many posts for you to check out. Optimal Waketime Lengths : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/07/optimal-waketime-lengths.html Waketime When Baby Wakes Early : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/04/waketime-when-baby-wakes-early.html Waketime When They Wake Early: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/waketime-when-they-wake-early.html 45 Minute Intruder: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/45-minute-intruder.html Nap Cues : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/03/nap-cues.html Naps: Troubleshooting: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/naps-troubleshooting.html
    August 12, 2008 2:31 PM
  • Beth said...
    Hi-My 2nd child is now 4 weeks old. I did babywise with my first and she was the babywise poster child!! This little boy has confounded me since he was born! He was very sleepy at first and it was very difficult to get a full feeding-thanks for your help on this. Now he is having trouble going to sleep for naps. At least one nap a day he cries the whole nap or either fusses and never settles down for it. At night especially he cries for at least 45 minutes, most of the time closer to an hour and a half. Please tell me if this is normal for anyone else. I think I just need some encouragement to continue with putting him down to go to sleep unassisted, because I am getting discouraged listening to him cry. I think I need to know that someone else has gone through the same thing and it is now over and the baby sleeps well! Thanks so much for your help!
    September 7, 2008 2:59 PM
    jencwu said...
    Hi Beth,I am by no means a BW expert--I have an almost 7 week old and I feel like I am just taking it one day at a time.I did want to let you know though that I've experienced the same thing as you. I started BW when he was about 2 weeks old, which the book says really not to implement it until then so I don't feel I started it late. But it wasn't until he was about 4 weeks when I found this website and realized I was doing some things wrong that have since been corrected (I was putting him down with a pacifier & keeping him up too long for waketime). At the beginning it seemed like almost every nap he would cry through and he was actually getting very little sleep. Luckily through all this he has done pretty well at night. I was getting soooo frustrated with the naps though and about ready to give up. I read the posts on here about when it gets better and a word to the weary and also talked to friends who have used BW. I decided to keep trying and things have gotten a lot better. He still has some difficult naps when he does not sleep at all or only sleeps like 20 mins, but those are getting fewer and farther between. Most naps he does still cry some for but his crying time is getting shorter.From what I've read on here and heard from friends, it really starts to get much better around 8 weeks, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I totally know how you feel though--there were days (and still are some!) that I was ready to pull my hair out and was in tears because of frustration and because I felt so bad that he was crying so much. There have been many times I've second guessed myself and thought, "maybe the 'experts' are right and letting them cry at this young age is wrong." But I know he feels loved and will continue feeling loved--he just started smiling at me and there are plenty of times outside of naps where we hold him, talk to him, sing to him, and love on him. Anyway, I hope this helps you to keep persevering! :)
    September 7, 2008 6:33 PM
    Beth said...
    Thank you so much for the encouragement. I will persevere and I feel much better knowing that others are doing the same! I definitely can tell a difference when I keep him up too long, and it seems that those are the times he wants a pacifier to go to sleep, which only adds to the problem. Thanks again! I hope all continues to go well with your little one!
    September 7, 2008 6:59 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Thanks for your thoughts jencwu! As I was reading that, I was reminded of when Kaitlyn was a newborn. It was hard, and she was a really easy baby. I remember thinking "Brayden was never this hard. It was never this bad with him." Then I read my journal from the time he was the same age. It was actually much worse! I just had selective memory I guess.
    September 11, 2008 1:41 PM
    Plowmanators said...
    Beth, one thing I would watch for is to be sure you aren't treating your son like your daughter. I think when we first get these second children home, we kind of expect them to be the same baby the older one was. You have to be sure to find out his specific sleep cues and his specific optimal waketime and his specific needs for CIO. When it comes to these items, you are like a first time mom all over again, though you do have experience troubleshooting all of that.See this post for guidance on figuring this out: CIO Bootcamp: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/11/cio-bootcamp.html
    September 11, 2008 1:38 PM
    Allison said...
    Beth and Jencwu-I've been reading posts on this board for about a week and a half now. I was ready to give up BW all together before I found this website! My daughter is seven weeks old and I have been trying to implement BW since two weeks, but have been consistent with CIO for about a week and a half. I feel as if we are all going through the same thing right now! My LO will not go down for some naps and I was nodding my head as I was reading jencwu's post about "maybe the experts are right", she is too young, blah,blah, I have thought that so many times in this process!! I also kept her up WAY too long in the beginning as well. So, it is nice to know that there are other moms having the same difficulties all going through this at the same time. She's sleeping now, but has been fussing on and off for about an hour. That's a huge improvement from about a week ago where she would totally scream through this whole nap. So progress will be slow from what I have been reading, but I hope it will all be worth it in the end.
    September 11, 2008 8:00 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Allison, it is definitely worth it. It takes time and work, but the more work you put in now, the easier things will be in the future.Another thing to remember is that in reality, implementing BW is much harder and requires a lot more effort than it seems it will while reading the book. When you read the book you think it will all be so easy, then you try it and it is hard and takes time and effort and you think you are doing something wrong. But if you look through this site and talk to other moms who have gone through it recently, you will see that difficulty is the norm rather than the exception. But it is worth it!
    September 11, 2008 1:44 PM
    Beth said...
    Allison-I can tell you from my first child that it is definitely worth it! This second baby has been much more difficult to get started with, but the reason I want to persevere is because I have seen the benefits in my little girl. She is now 2 and a half and lays down so easily for naps and bedtime. I don't have to fight to get her to go to sleep and she wakes up well rested. She isn't getting out of bed all night and is happy when she wakes in the morning. BW was so wonderful with her that my husband begged me when I got pregnant to do the same thing with the new baby as I did with her! I am happy to say that since I wrote my first post, my little boy is already doing better with naps! I know your little girl will settle in-it is worth it, keep going!
    September 11, 2008 8:37 AM
    jencwu said...
    Hi Allison, It is really nice to see others are experiencing the same things as me! I'm afraid things have taken a turn for the worse the past few days for me and my 7 week old :( He has hardly slept at all during the day for the past 3 days and so far today is not starting off too well either. At least his nights seem to be getting better and better. I'm hoping it's just a short phase and that we'll get back to progressing as he was before. I guess it just goes to show you progress is slow and up and down, as you're saying. It's soooo easy to get discouraged though. I know I was at my wit's end yesterday and got to the point that I couldn't stand it anymore and gave in--I rocked him to sleep for one nap and gave him the pacifier for another. I wish I would have been stronger because that will probably just slow down progress even more. Thanks for your post though :)
    September 11, 2008 9:48 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    jencwu, be sure to see this post if you haven't:Progress is a Spiral: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/progress-is-in-spiral.html%20and
    Progress is a Spiral, Again: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/progress-is-spiral-again.html
    September 11, 2008 1:46 PM
  • TBird said...
    Hi, I've been reading your blog and I'm addicted! I have a 6 week old daughter that does great with BW. She feeds every 3 hours(7a, 10a, 1p, 4p, 6:30p, 10p), usually sleeps until her next bottle, and wakes around 2am.My concern is, she very RARELY naps after her 4pm bottle. I lay her in her crib at 5p, eat supper, and she usually cries off and on until I go get her at 6:15 to start the bedtime routine. When she was first born, I didn't feel like it was right to put her to bed after the 4p bottle, but after a month of having her with the family at 5p, instead of napping, she'd cry. Then take until 7:15 or 7:30 to fall asleep because she was overtired. I was just afraid she would think it's bed time.Well, when I lay her down at 5, she usually cried anyway, no matter where she is(with the family, or in her crib.) And still take until 7:30p to settle.Any suggestions?Also, what would suggest I do if she happens to wake up at 5:45am, after waking at 2a when I don't want to start her day until 7a?
    January 15, 2009 8:36 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    TBird,For many babies, that is a hard time of day. If you need to, you can put her in a swing or vibrating seat or something if she will sleep there. This should be short lived. As she gets better at sleeping and over the younger age, she will be able to sleep in the evening as needed.

    See this post for the 5:45 feeding: Early Morning Feedings Before Waketime: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/01/early-morning-feedings-before-waketime.html
    January 22, 2009 1:19 PM

126 comments:

jencwu said...

Hi, I have a question related to both waking early and routine. My son just turned 6 months and had been doing great with his naps up until about 3 or so weeks ago. I was having to wake him for all naps pretty much every day, and he has gotten past the crying stage to where he would just fall asleep within 15 mins, little to no crying. Then I decided to start letting him sleep however long he wanted, trying to put him on a 4 hour schedule (from a 3hr one) but letting him do it himself. At the beginning he would sleep longer for one or both of his first 2 naps, but not so long later in the day. So we never did have a day where he was strictly 4 hours, and never have been able to drop a daytime feeding. Now though he is rarely stretching out any of his naps, and for most he now is even waking earlier than he used to. He is waking after sleeping anywhere from 30-60 mins. Sometimes he is poopy and will go back to sleep after getting changed, but other times there is no apparent reason and he won't go back to sleep, in his crib or swing. His waketime is 1.5 hrs, so he should be sleeping at least 1.5 hrs for the 3 hr schedule. I don't think the waketime is too long though since he did really well with it before.

Do you think he needs less sleep now? Should I drop a nap? I was waiting to do this until he went to a 4 hr schedule. Should I try to force the 4 hr schedule?

Plowmanators said...

jencwu,

I don't know how many naps he has in the day, but at 6 months he should have at most three naps.

6 months is a growth spurt time, so I would first be sure that is not the reason for his early waking. There are several other common causes for waking early at this age. See:

5-8 Month Sleep Disruptions : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/05/6-month-sleep-disruptions.html

jencwu said...

Since he hasn't gone to the 4 hour schedule yet, he is still taking 4 naps a day. I was under the impression that he should go to the 4 hour schedule before dropping a nap. It sounds like you are saying I should just drop the last nap right now anyway? Or should I just shorten all 4 of his naps until he gets on a 4 hour schedule? Will dropping 1 whole nap at the end of the day have enough of an impact to where his other naps during the day will start to go better?

Also, I know this isn't the routine forum but since it's related, should I just force the 4 hour schedule upon him since I've been waiting for him to do for a month or 2 now, to no avail?

Plowmanators said...

I would just drop the fourth nap and have two feedings without sleep in between. The impact isn't definite, but he is definitely at an age to go to 3 naps. Be sure to also see that other post I linked.

Don't force the 4 hour schedule. That will just end up stressing you out because he won't be able to stay asleep until the 4 hour mark. BW says to not worry about moving to the 4 hour--don't let it stress you.

See:

Dropping Naps: A Quick Reference : http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/11/dropping-naps-quick-reference.html

and

When to Move to a 4 hour Schedule: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2007/12/when-to-move-to-4-hour-schedule.html

C-lee said...

Hi my LO struggled with gas, and we took her to the Docter and she is doing much better :-) I keep a log on her daily routine: she is on a 4hour routine with 3 naps a day oh and she is 6months on 15Feb2009. I have found that in the morning she can only manage to stay awake for an hour that leaves her with 3 hour to her next feeding, only that she wakes after 1-1.5hours I leave her in her crib. But she doesn't seem to fall asleep, I usually rock her just to calm down and then she would sleep for the remainder of her nap. In the afternoon she is awake for 1.45-2hours and then there is 2 hours left until the next feeding, but she can go for up to 3hours sleep in the afternoon. and in the evening she takes an 1hour nap, sometimes only half an hour. You mentioned somewhere that you shortened the morning nap and extended Kaitlyn's waketime. How do I do that? Should I do a combo schedule so that if she wakes after her morning nap it can be feeding time???? I was also thinking because she can go for 3hours in the afternoon,and there is usually 2 hours until the next feeding should I get her up after she wakes from the morning nap and then feed her at her norma feeding and then put er down after she was awake for 2 hours and let her sleep until her next feeing? CAN I DO THAT? I hope this makes sense.

Plowmanators said...

C-lee,

I think the thing you are thinking about with Kaitlyn was when she was 14 months old. You have to be really careful when messing with a 6 month old waketime that you don't go too long. See this post:

Waketime: Length, Extending, and Calculating: http://babywisemom.blogspot.com/2008/02/waketime-length-extending-and.html

I like your last idea. I would feed her earlier in the morning, then let her go longer for a nap in the afternoon. I think that is just fine.

Danna said...

Okay, I'm desperate here. Not sure if I am putting this in the right place or not, but here it goes. My daugther is a BW baby and has been since birth. She is now almost 11 months old. She goes to daycare during the day, and up until about 2 months ago, was a great napper. She is a great night time sleeper still but has stopped taking naps during the week altogether. At home on the weekends, she still naps fine..most times in the swing. She has refused to nap at daycare for more than 2 months now and it's is causing huge problems at home. She will fall asleep as soon as I pick her up at 5:30, and I have to wake her up at 6:30 to eat dinner and she is miserable until she goes to bed at 7-7:30pm. Any ideas at all. They have tried the swing, cio, etc.

Plowmanators said...

Danna, it is hard to say since I don't know the exact conditions of daycare. I would look at the differences between home and daycare since she naps well at home on the weekends. My guess is that it is noisy and distracting at the daycare, which is the most likely problem in this situation. I don't know what if anything they can do about those differences...but if she will nap at home in a swing but not at daycare in a swing, then there is something there that is throwing her off.

Jennie said...

Your blog is so great! We teach the toddlerwise class and I reccomend it to everyone!
Okay I have tried everything, read your whole blog, etc. so I wanted to ask you. My 2nd little boy is 6 1/2 months old. He falls asleep great without crying and usually falls asleep within 1-2 minutes. He sleeps from 7pm-7am, but for the morning nap I put him down at 9:00 and he only sleeps until 10:00. When he wakes up he doesn't cry and I leave him in there until 10:30 and he just plays. (I have tried putting him down earlier, later, feeding him more, etc and nothing seems to work!) I put him back down at 1:00 and he sleeps until 2:30 (I leave him in there until 3:00). He usually won't take a cat nap...but this just doesn't seem like enough sleep to me (2 1/2 hours all day?!)! Any advice on how to "make" him sleep more? :) Oh, he really will only sleep in his crib, so the swing, etc wont work for him) (my first would sleep from 9-11 and 1-3 and still take a cat nap at this age!)
Thanks so much!
Jennie

Plowmanators said...

Jennie,

That doesn't seem like enough daytime sleep for a 6 month old, but if you have tried everything, there isn't much you can do :) My first was that way; short naps all day long. One day at 6.5 months old, he suddenly started sleeping two hours. I have several theories as to why, and those theories are all outlined in the short naps posts, but I don't know for sure. So once you have done all you can, I would just accept it. I would still pay attention to see if you can change something, but try to not stress about it, especially if he is happy.

Community Shares said...

My situation is similar to Jennie, but slightly different. I have a 6 month old baby. She has always slept from 8PM-7AM maybe 7:30AM (dreamfeed at 10PM) when she was younger, then I started moving back the dreamfeed and she was going to bed at 7PM-7AM. I finally cut that out and continued with 7PM- 7AM.

Well one week naps started getting crazy. She wanted to practice her new rolling over skill. So, I just let the phase be. But now she still only takes 1hr naps all day long. She has pretty consistently been a 2hr napper for awhile. Plus she can't make it to bedtime, she gets really tired and fussy. She is a sleepyhead with only about 1.25-1.30hr waketime.

So, I have tried to troubleshoot, read the 5-8 month sleep disruption blog, but can't figure it out. I would let it go, but she is too tired in the evening so it clearly is not enough sleep.

I have also noticed that a lot of mornings she will wake up as early as 6AM, but the problem is she doesn't cry for me, she will just lay in bed and wait until I come get her at 7AM.

So I thought maybe she needed to go to bed at 8PM like the original schedule, but she can't make it that long in the evening. I was thinking maybe she isn't a 12hr sleeper at night.

I don't want the start time earlier than 7AM but these 1hr naps all day aren't enough and I am thinking the issue might be she wakes up in the morning earlier than I know and is too tired for the first nap and this cycle only progresses all day long. She wakes up happy and cooing from her naps, but like I said she can barely make it to bedtime. This has been going on for about 3-4 weeks. What should I do?

pem said...

Hi - thank you for this blog, it is excellent and wish I had found it sooner! i have an 11 week old girl and am having napping issues - for approx. 6 weeks now she falls asleep fine but always wakes up early, very very rarely making it through 1hr uninterrupted...i've read through a lot of the posts and tried various things such as cutting back on waketime, increasing waketime, cio, etc. but nothing has worked...when she does wake early i try and get her back down but it does get frustrating at times...her nighttime sleep is pretty random as well - she's anywhere from 5-7rs, sometimes 8-8.5hrs, once 9.5hrs, then all of a sudden she went back down to 4-4.5hrs...is this normal? i just thought that eventually they would increase their time as they got older, but she's kind of all over the place still...i'd appreciate any tips/advice/insight you might have!

Plowmanators said...

Community Shares, I am sorry! I didn't see your comment until now. Please let me know if you are still having trouble.

Plowmanators said...

pem, did you ever treat it like a growth spurt? 6 weeks is a growth spurt age, and if she never got the extra food, she would still be asking for it. They have a growth spurt every 3-4 weeks.

For the nighttime, that is pretty normal. Some babies start STTN and never look back. Others (like my girls) sleep through a couple of nights, then don't, then do, then don't...

pem said...

Hi - thanks for responding!! She's at 16 weeks now and still working on her napping - I belive though I have figured out what the problem is - sleep transitions - when she's going from her deep sleep to her active sleep - she gets so active and wakes herself up...what I have done and which seems to work a lot is that when she starts entering her active sleep and starts moving, I will pat her bum to help her get through it - it works most times - but not sure if this is helping her or hurting her? any thoughts or comments?

Plowmanators said...

I have known a few moms to do that. I would say continue it for a while, but not forever. It is good to get her body used to sleeping the full time, and you patting her through a transition is preferable to something like a swing. But at some point (I don't know exactly when :) ), I would stop going in and see if she can get through them on her own. Perhaps around 5 months or so. Or sooner if you feel the time is right.

Community Shares said...

I am still having an issue with her napping. She has been sleeping 11.5 hours pretty consistently, waking up at 6:30AM.

Naps were an hour for SO long and then I kept her up a little longer and she seemed to sleep anywhere from 1.5-2hrs. It was great! Then she started the napping for only an hour thing again. I am trying to play with her waketime, thinking that could possibly be it.

She is 7.5 months and I keep her awake for 1hr30 minutes to 1hr45 minutes. I don't know what else to do because she wakes up still sleepy and yawning. And then next nap wants to go to sleep right after eating. Could it be something else?

stevenkarli said...

Hi I have a question regarding the implementation of Babywise with my 3 week old son. From birth he has had full feedings which worked into a 2 ½ hour schedule, but I have a problem getting him to sleep by himself. He has a lot of trouble falling asleep if someone isn’t holding him. I have left him to cry, which he will do his entire nap time if I leave him to. I have tried both comforting him after a period of time, and just leaving him to see if he will wear himself out. I haven’t found either to work. I have a hard time leaving my three week old to cry for an hour or more. Is this normal, and is there anything I can do to help him to sleep in his crib/cradle or to help him learn to soothe himself without having him cry for so long? Thank you for your time!

Beth said...

I've read a ton about naps and am still in need of help! I have a 9 week old who just does not like to sleep during the day. She is wonderful at night and will sleep 9 hours sraight. I'm on a 3 hour schedule and typically keep her awake for the first hour. At this point I often notice that she's getting sleepy, so I work on getting her to nap. If she falls asleep, it never lasts more than 30 minutes and then she's wide awake again. The few times we've tried CIO have been bad. She cries hard and cannot seem to calm down and console herself. We've let it go on for 40 minutes and after picking her up, she has continued to cry for the next hour. She gets more angry the longer we let her cry and is stubborn about napping. Any suggestions?

Plowmanators said...

Community Shares, I am so sorry! It seems you are someone I don't get notified of when you comment. I have noticed there are certain people who I consistently don't get notified about.

It sounds like you have tried everything. The only think I can think of is that you need to make sure you give every new thing long enough to see if it works. So if you change waketime length, give it a few days before messing with it again. Also, be sure to work with just one variable at a time. I am not sure if you are doing these things or not, but they are things that help.

Have you tried darkening her room? Using a fan or some sort of white noise?

Plowmanators said...

stevenkarli, see the blog label "Baby Whisperer" for ideas. You don't need to leave him to cry. One thing is to be sure his waketime isn't too long. For a three week old, that should be about 30-40 minutes including feeding time. As a 6 week old, it isn't much longer. Anywhere from 30-50 minutes--some might be able to do 60. See the blog label optimal waketime for more.

Your first goal would be having him sleep when he should sleep and try to have that be in his bed. As he gets older, you can work more on self-soothing if needed.

Plowmanators said...

Beth, my guess is that she is up too long. Work with waketimes. When a baby has a hard time falling asleep, it is usually because they are overly tired.

Becky said...

Here's a perplexing problem for anyone out there....My baby is 4 1/2 months old. I'd been putting off moving to a 4-hr feeding schedule, because I was worried about having "milk supply" issues. After measuring several weeks of her only taking 3 oz every 3 hours, I finally decided she wasn't hungry enough before meals and decided to move her to a 4 hour schedule. Now she's eating better and napping longer. I also read that many babies by 4 months are taking two significant (2-3 hour naps) early in the day with maybe a little catnap in the late afternoon. Since I was planning on going back to work as a teacher, this combination of a 4-hr feeding schedule and two long naps early in the day would be GREAT. She'd only need one feeding while I was gone (and I'd only need to find one opportunity a day to pump) and she'd rest while I was at work and be awake and happy when I was home. Previously, on the 3-hour schedule, she was still taking a 1 hour nap between every feeding (a total of 5) and was miserable in the evening. We felt it was the right time to make this adjustment to her schedule, since she recently discovered thumb-sucking and has now become an EXPERT at continuous sleep!

So we encouraged the new routine, and it worked BEAUTIFULLY for 3 or 4 days. Now she seems to be waking 45 minutes into the 1st nap...not crying or anything, but won't go back to sleep. So I basically leave her in her crib until it's time for the next feeding (which is a LONG time on a 4 hour schedule). Then she usually goes down very soon after the next feeding and ends up sleeping for 3 1/2 hours, but is still pretty cranky in the evening. I'm not sure if she's getting too much waketime before that first nap....I usually go walking with her in the morning and often she'll fall asleep in the stroller and when I get home I'll put her in bed, but I've also tried nixing the walk and scheduling just an hour or so of waketime so she won't be as sleepy going down for a nap and she still rises early.

This isn't a "life or death" situation and it's not making us miserable, but we know she's capable of taking a more significant first nap. Any suggestions?

Kim said...

Hello

i have a 4 week old, I did Babywise with my first and was very successful. THis time around we are living overseas, so we have grandparents staying with us who aren't fans of BW. As a result I have started the sleep, feed, wake cycle from day one, but CIO didn't start until a week ago, and even then not for every nap because of grandparent intervention. However we are getting at least on, usually 2 CIO naps per day now. In the middle of the night feeding she goes to bed awake, as with the early morning feeding, and doesn't cry and goes right to sleep. But for the other naps she will mostly cry the whole time, or cry for 20 minutes, then sleep for 10 or 15 then do this over again. My question is can we train this cat napping out of her, and is she getting enough sleep when she cries for over an hour until next feeding time? Of course when this happens it is extremely difficult to keep her awake for the feedings, and they end up taking nearly an hour for a full feeding, which I am sure tires her out even more. Up until I started CIO for naps at 3 weeks her naps were happening in her grama's arms, as Grama thinks she doesn't like her crib, and that she is just a cat napper and that is how it is!

Thanks for your help, the blog is great as are the BW books!!

Plowmanators said...

Becky, have you tried feeding her when she wakes early? It is possible she started a growth spurt after starting the 4 hour scehdule.

If waketime stayed the same and she then started waking early, try adding more waketime. Add it in five minute increments to see if that fixes it. If waketime got longer and then she started taking shorter naps, shorten waketime back up.

There is also the possibility of noises, light, hot/cold, etc.

Plowmanators said...

Kim,

It sounds like what first needs to happen is for your baby to be used to sleeping in a crib. She is used to sleeping in the arms of people. I would first help her to fall asleep and see if she will transfer into a crib. Chances are she might wake up once set down since she has spent her life sleeping in the arms of others.

This is what happened with my oldest, and it does take some time to break the habit of sleeping in the arms of people, but it can be done. Just realize she has spent 4 weeks living life this way, so it won't be fixed in a couple of days.

Once she can sleep in a crib, you can move on to CIO. Good luck!

Anne said...

My son is now 8 weeks old and weighs almost 11lbs. We have been doing BW since he was born and I have NEVER had consistent success with keeping him from waking early from naps. I have read this blog through and through and have tried the suggestions...earlier nap (at one point as early as eat-sleep no play), bringing him to swing, etc. He has enough to eat (4+oz), he just will sleep for 45 min, maybe an hour and then he's up and we have another hour to go before it's time to feed him. I feel like my son spends most of his life in his crib crying because of trying to implement bw and I hate it. I know no other way now because we've just been trying so hard to make this work. He just doesn't want to follow the cycles. If he does ever seem to sleep through it then he doesn't want to wake until 4 hours or more..during the day of course, night is consistently every 2.5 to 3 hours like clock work. I just feel like a horrible mom because I have this baby up in his crib (right now) constantly screaming because he doesn't want to be napping any more. I feel so bad because when I go change his diaper and re-wrap him every 10min or so he seems happy and then just starts screaming when I wrap and put him down. The swing sometimes works, but not consistently and I do not want him sleeping in his swing his whole life! Please help!! I feel like a horrible mom and I don't know what to do. Anybody...please help!

Steven & Karli said...

Anne,

For my son things didn’t really start clicking until he could soothe himself, and he didn’t seem to be able to do that until he hit 3 months. Then everything fell into place. But up until that point my son couldn’t sleep more than a half hour at a time, (I think his sleep cycle is a little shorter that 45 minutes) and then he would wake crying and screaming and would do so until I got him up or if I left him there, his next feeding. I realized I had to be kind of flexible with him and not be a rigid schedule keeper. If he woke up, I would let him cry for a bit to allow him time to try to soothe himself, (around 15 min) then if he couldn’t go back to sleep, which was almost always what happened before he turned 3 months, I would go in and help soothe him back to sleep because I knew he was so tired and he really needed his sleep, and it helped keep the schedule. Then if he woke up again I would give him time to go back to sleep again and if he didn’t, I would decide if it was just time to get him up anyways, and sometimes feed him early, or on time. Eventually, by allowing him this time to fall asleep on his own he learned how to soothe himself.
I also tried to keep a perspective that every cycle was a new start, and we could then try it all over again, and if we had a bad day, then the next day we would try again, babies have bad days just like us adults.

My son is four months old and he still isn’t on a 4 hour schedule, he was on a 2.5 hour schedule until around 3 months (after he started napping well), but I nurse him. I think that with formula you should be able to do between 3-4 hour schedule. But since he is waking up so much at night I’m guessing he may need more feedings? I think with all of this you just try to feel out what your baby needs and try to match the cycle with that. Also, I find that being consistent with when you schedule the first feeding really helps. I am not an expert at any of this, it is just what worked with my son…. who now takes around an hour and a half nap during his cycles, (which started immediately once he could soothe himself) except for his evening nap which is shorter. We are currently on a three hour schedule. He always slept well at night though. I hope this helps a little…. Good luck!

Heather said...

This site has been a true lifesaver for me and fills in the gaps of BW...so..thank you.
My son is 10 weeks old and has been doing well since birth on a 3 hr routine. (breastfed, still not STTN but will go 5.5 hrs in length). For the past 5 days he has been all over the board though...eating on more of a 2-2.5 hr schedule, waking 45 mintues into a nap, etc. I've followed the advice for the 45 min intruder and will feed him when necessary. He takes a full feeding but can barely stay awake afterwards. Could this be a growth spurt? His feedin is not as ferocious as the 6week growth spurt so that is why I am questioning whether it is a g/s. I feel like all the hard work I've done for the past two months is going away. CIO is really hard for me. I've tried keeping him up but he gets cranky...he hates the swing, can stand the bouncer for short periods, but does fine being held or sitting upright (even though he really can't at the moment). I feel really confused right now. Just when I thought things were going great.....Any advice??

Kynda said...

My 7 month baby isn't falling asleep until the very end of her two hour nap. I put her in bed on time, but I really don't know what to do. Should I wake her up at the end of the two hours even though she is only getting about 10 minutes of sleep or should I let her sleep and move her next feed and nap time?

sarahjane05 said...

My 10 week old baby is crying through all naps. The only nap he will ever take is the first after 50 minutes of wake time. He then wakes after 40 minutes and never goes back to sleep...not in a swing, bouncy, or if I let him CIO. Yesterday he was awake for 11 hours straight. I have done BW since his was 1 week old. I have tried everything you have suggested on your blog regarding naps and waking early. Nothing is working! I know consistency is the key and have remained consistent throughout and given any changes a week to two weeks. What am I doing wrong? How can I get my little one to take naps?

Plowmanators said...

Anne,

I don't do CIO when a baby wakes early from a nap until they are at least three months...I actually have never done it, but my personal policy is not until three months. If baby wakes early, I will often wait 5-10 minutes to see if it is just a rough transition, but then I just feed them.

When he wakes early, try feeding him first. Babies have growth spurts so often the first few months. It is at most every 4 weeks, some every three weeks. If it lasts one week, then you are only having two weeks off at a time...it is tiring, but it does get better. Try feeding him more at each feeding or more often and see if that helps.

Plowmanators said...

Heather, it sounds like a growth spurt. I know a sense of panic starts to arise, but if you feed him extra (more often) for several days, things will go back to normal.

Remember that BW says if your baby starts to suddenly wake when she was sleeping well, it is likely a growth spurt.

Plowmanators said...

Kynda,

I might give her an extra 30 minutes, but not much more than that.

I would try adding a bit of waketime before the nap. Try adding 5 minutes at a time and see if that helps.

Plowmanators said...

sarahjane05, it sounds like you have the same problem as Anne. See my advice to her (above)

Anne said...

I don't necessarily let him CIO. I go up when I hear him wake (cry) and re-wrap him, cuddle him a bit, tell him that it's still nap time and put him back down and let him fuss. Sometimes he goes back down...more often than not now. If not, after a few times of doing that I will bring him down to swing or I will try to feed him especially if it is near a growth spurt now that I know when he is having them...sort of! Do you think that is an ok policy? It's not really all out CIO I wouldn't say. ??? Thanks again!!

Lindsey said...

My 10 week old daughter has been waking in the middle of her naps quite frequently (for about the past 3 weeks). At first, she would just cry and cry, not falling back asleep. But now, she has found her hand to suck on. So this is occupying her and she doesn't cry as much. I usually hold her off a best I can until it is close to her regular feeding time.

My question is, if she wakes up 30 minutes before it is time to eat, and I wait until her regular time to eat, how long should I keep her up after she eats before her next nap time. It seems like her schedule gets thrown off because she has already been up for 30 minutes longer than usual. (By the way, she has pretty much dropped her sleepy cues).

Thanks so much for you help and wisdom!

Plowmanators said...

Anne, I think that sounds good. I like that you are going to him because you can see if he is hungry or not.

I think a short amount of time to allow for resettling is totally fine. That happened to McKenna sometimes just because I was in the middle of something with Brayden and Kaitlyn (like baths). She would go back to sleep before I could get to her. But I think it is very important to watch for growth spurts.

Plowmanators said...

Lindsey,

I have a post titled "waketime when they wake early" and one titled "waketime when baby wakes early."

Plowmanators said...

sorry! I pushed publish before I was done.

Those should answer your question :)

alexandoliviasmom said...

Hello!! Thanks for being so wonderful and patient and helping all of us moms out in the world!!
I have 3 questions. Question 1 with McKenna, when did you drop from 7 to 6 feedings? My daughter is 12 weeks old and yet to sttn. From 8-10 weeks she was consistently the same as your daughter McKenna (which was helpful as I checked your site) waking at 5-530 for an early morning feed from one breast. My optimal waketime is 7am. So a lot of times my day would start at 730 or 8 otherwise Olivia would not eat well at the early morning feeding. Naps are great I wake her for most except the late afternoon she wakes early. She also experiences the witching hour but after the 8pm feeding so 50% ofthe time she goes to bed in her crib with 5 minutes of fussing and the other 50% is sleeping in her swing. Here is my 2nd question, At 11 weeks she started waking everyday at a different time in the night 3, 4, 500, 530. I fed her because it was all over the place. I treated like a growth spurt. This week she is getting back to Monday waking at 450, Tues. 630, Wed 530... Is there a reason for these inconsitencies? When should I worry about getting her to go to 7am? Over the weekend she did sleep till 7 am or even 730 am, on those days I cluster feed t/o the daytime so she can get in a full 7 feedings.. but I always have at least one poor feeding when I have to wake her at 2.5 hours. Did you always feed 7 feeding when Mckenna was going back and forth or on some days go down to 6? Last question, is it normal for waketimes to be getting a bit longer at this age of 12 week ?? Here is our current schedule. With these crazy middle ofthe night waking I am trying to stay consitent.
730 wake nurse
0800 nap
1030 wake nurse
1135 nap
0130 wake nurse
0240 nap
0430 wake nurse
0530 nap
0700-0730 she wakes, nurse
07450815 bed/swing due to witching hour. We keep her up a shorter waketime due to my husband having a little one on one time with her.
1030 DF by my husband with a bottle of breastmilk (4oz she just went up from 3.5 oz)--I pump--then straight to bed
05-0530 nurse from one side
Thanks so much!!

JanessaPongi said...

Hi first of all I am so glad I found this site! I was given the Babywise book while I was pregnant, but unfortunately I didn't quite know how to enforce a schedule with my newborn. I hope it's not too late! He just reach 4 weeks old on February 10 and I want to know your suggestions on transitioning into a feeding schedule with him. He has been demand fed since he was born, and I basically fed him whenever he chose, whether that be 2 hours between feedings or 20 minutes. (I know now that this was a bad idea!)Another question I have would be about naptime. After he eats, how long should his wake time be before putting him down for a nap?

Also, I am trying the CIO method- usually when he cries I would bounce him or carry him around, but when he was still fussy I just fed him again! I'm wondering if I've now trained him to eat to be comforted? Anyways thank you so much for your blog, I'll definitely be following from now on!!

Plowmanators said...

Alexandoliviasmom,

I am unsure exactly...I believe it was sometime between 3-4 months? If you check the blog under "baby summary" I think you should find it. Just look in the sample schedules of each post. I might have it under its own heading as well in the post because it would have been exciting :)

2--my kids were all that way, also. I think for some, it is just part of the process. Some babise supposedly sleep until 5 and never look back...not mine :) The reason I guess would be they are just learning.

On days McKenna dropped her night feeding, I just did 6 feedings. At 12 weeks (now 14), you can do that for sure. 6 is enough.

Waketime is always increasing--especially in those early months. Things settle down more as they get older, but McKenna is still constantly adjusting her waketime. I don't really notice it much until I update our weekly schedule on my baby summary posts. I realize, "hey, McKenna lengthened that one waketime by 10 minutes this week." So that is normal.

JanessaPongi said...

Oops I left out some questions and info from my post last night! I forgot to mention that even though my son was being demand fed, he generally followed a 3 hour schedule. He usually begins his first feeding of the day at 5 am. (thought it would be helpful to know because of my first question)

And about CIO. Is it too early for him to start? I tried to do it yesterday and today and ever since he was born he's been held constantly. The moment we put him down he cries hysterically! Yesterday when I put him down while he was awake (after about 50 minutes of waketime including feeding), he cried for about 10 minutes off and on then eventually fell asleep. But today when I've been putting him down he cries for almost 25 minutes off and on! Then he just stays awake and cries here and there. I'm afraid he's not getting any rest because he's crying too much. What do you suggest I do? I hate hearing him cry because he's a screamer:(


Again thank you so much for you amazing blog!!

D & H said...

I read Babywise and Baby Whisperer before my son was born and am trying to implement them. My 2 1/2 week old boy has had breastfeeding difficulties due to being VERY sleepy while eating despite everything we do and so I have had to feed him and supplement with milk that I pump after each feeding. He is finally gaining weight well now, and I've been working with a lactation consultant to get through all this. My problem is that there are sometimes during the day when he does not take a nap after his feedings and other times when he goes to sleep almost immediately. I am feeding him every 2.5 hours during the day and every 3 hours tonight, and we have to wake him for nearly every feed (except for the ones following the periods where he won't sleep). The lactation consultant gave me permission today to let him go one four-hour stretch at night, which he will do fine since he goes to sleep right away after his night feedings and is sleeping well at nighttime. The times when he usually doesn't sleep are after his morning 7am feeding and after his dinnertime 5pm feeding. What do you suggest? Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

JanessaPongi, defnitely not too late :)

There are a couple of posts I would suggest for you getting started late. One is called "starting late" or "starting babywise late" and the other is "getting a consistent schedule"

He should be awake for about 45-60 minutes total, including feeding time.

See teh post "CIO bootcamp revised and updated" for help there. He will be used to the rocking and such, but he will learn the new way.

I don't think he is as a rule too young, but you definitely need to decide for him as an individual. See the post "CIO: When should you start". See also the post "Waking early from naps, won't fall asleep for naps"

Good luck!

Plowmanators said...

D&H,

I would definitely have him have that waketime after those two feedings, but after he has been awake anywhere from 30-60 minutes (for a 4 week old, most will be about 45), put him down for a nap. I don't know if you want to do CIO or whatever method you want to follow. Just put him down the way you want to do it. If you want to do CIO, see that label. If you want to try the 4 S's, see that label.

Aunt Kristen said...

If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it. How can I ever get past a 2 1/2hr schedule when I only have a 45min napper??? His awke time is right around 1hr. He is 9 weeks, and no matter what I do or have tried he will only make it 45 min. I think I have a Brayden. If someone has advice or a sample schedule I would really appreciate it.

Plowmanators said...

Aunt Kristen,

My advice would be to wait this out for a bit longer. He is still super young. I would put my efforts on trying to figure out the reasons for waking early. For this, see the blog label "45 minute intruder" and the post "naps: troubleshooting--revised and updated."

I wouldn't worry about extending the schedule yet. Just try to figure out naps without driving yourself crazy :)

Elena said...

I'm a first-time mom fairly new to BabyWise and have a couple issues I'm hoping you could help shed some light on. My 3-month old son is currently on a 4-hour schedule, and sleeps 3 hours for each of the first two naps, with an hour or so for the third nap. We follow the eat/wake/sleep routine. He takes a dreamfeed between 10:30-11 pm and then wakes around 2-3 am to eat. He sleeps swaddled in his crib. ISSUE 1: He has never slept through the night. What can I do to help him learn to STTN at this point? ISSUE 2: He wakes up an hour into each nap like clockwork. Each time if I pick him up and burp him and give him his pacifier (sometimes twice or three times in a 10-min window), he will go back to a sound sleep for another two hours. Any suggestions what I could do to help resolve this?

Thank you for sharing your insight in this wonderful blog. It's a great resource for moms like me.

Plowmanators said...

Elena,

It is possible he is napping too much in the day. A 3 hour nap is pretty long. If he can only stay up for 60 minutes at a time (which is fine), I would have him sleep for only 2.5 hours and do a 3.5 hour schedule instead of a 4.

Does he fall asleep on his own? He might be waking if he uses a pacifier to fall asleep. Around 3 months, many pacifier babies run into sleep issues. If so, see blog label "pacifier" to help you decide if you want to stick it out or get rid of it now.

Also, be sure he isn't waking due to hunger. Since he will go back to sleep, he probably isn't hungry. But it is always good to be aware of growth spurts.

As he is able to put himself asleep, he should sleep through those transitions better. See blog label "45 minute intruder" for more help.

Samantha said...

HELP!! I have a 9 month old little girl. She is a horrible napper it seems and we are struggling. She is on a 4 hour nursing schedule, goes to be at 7:30 p.m. and wakes at 6:00 a.m. which I want my wake time for her to be 7:30 a.m. but it is just NOT happening. I still do not nurse her until 7:00/7:30 a.m. She then will go down for her first nap at 8:45/9:00 a.m. and then only sleeps until 10:00 a.m. and is fussy the rest of the morning. I then feed her at 11:30/12:00 pm and she goes down then again at 1:00 and sleeps until 2:00 and if a good day 2:30 - we have had ONE day of sleeping until 3:00. Do I need to let her CIO at the morning nap? How long? Any suggestions would be helpful?

Samantha said...

HELP!! I have a 9 month old little girl. She is a horrible napper it seems and we are struggling. She is on a 4 hour nursing schedule, goes to be at 7:30 p.m. and wakes at 6:00 a.m. which I want my wake time for her to be 7:30 a.m. but it is just NOT happening. I still do not nurse her until 7:00/7:30 a.m. She then will go down for her first nap at 8:45/9:00 a.m. and then only sleeps until 10:00 a.m. and is fussy the rest of the morning. I then feed her at 11:30/12:00 pm and she goes down then again at 1:00 and sleeps until 2:00 and if a good day 2:30 - we have had ONE day of sleeping until 3:00. Do I need to let her CIO at the morning nap? How long? Any suggestions would be helpful?

Plowmanators said...

Samantha,

I would say she is having too long of waketime. At her age, she should only be awake for 2 hours until she goes back down for a nap. Plus, if you are feeding her in the morning between 7-7:30 then her next feeding should be between 11-11:30.

lolagassert said...

My daughter is 16mo old. When she was born I followed the baby wise techniques but I started the bad habit of rocking her to sleep with a bottle. It wasnt ever an issue because I enjoyed that cuddle time and we were the only two home. Things have changed... she has a brother that is due in 2 weeks and she is very spoiled when it comes to me rocking her to sleep. It takes me at least 20min usually more to put her to sleep and I know Im not going to have that much time to spare when the baby comes. I want to transition her to fall asleep on her own but I wanted some tips on how to make the transition without shocking her. Ideas?

Plowmanators said...

lolagassert, I haven't ever done any sleep training with a child that old, so I can't say for sure. I would say maybe start by rocking her for about 15 minutes for a few days, but her put her in bed awake. Then cut back to 10, then 5. See if that works. Good luck!

a political muscle said...

I have a question regarding naps: my 11 week old daughter has been sleeping through the night for 3 weeks now (just like my son, who started STTN at 8 weeks). Both of them will/would go from 9pm to 6:30-7am.

UNLIKE my son, my daughter does not nap well at all. It's a constant battle for her to fall asleep during nap time. She's on 2.5 hr schedule, breastfeeding, sometimes likes swaddling, sometimes not. I've been trying CIO but most days she will cry right through until her next feeding, then she's fussy and can't be put down again through her next period of waketime. She doesn't fall asleep at the breast, which is good. But, how the heck can I get her to sleep during naps!!?!? I've tried using our swing (she hates it), I've tried using the bouncy chair with the vibrate button on and off, and I've tried getting her to sleep in her crib. All to no avail. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting worn out with an entire day's worth of crying. Thank god I've got my nights.....

Oh, should mention, we've been doing BW since she was born, just like with my son (he's 2). My son now asks for naps and sleeps well with no problems, and doesn't fight bedtime. We really want the same for our daughter!

Plowmanators said...

It sounds like she might be one who hates to sleep. This is how Brayden was, and it was frustrating. He still doesn't like it, but he does it. We do have waves 1-4 times a year where we have to go through a bit of resistance. It isn't terrible; but I do wonder what he would be like if we hadn't ever done BW. Not a sleeper for sure!

Anyway, one thing to be sure of is that her waketime length is correct. See the optimal waketime blog label.

I also suggest you look at the newborn blog index: http://www.babywisemom.com/2010/04/blog-index-for-newborns.html

and read through all of the CIO posts.

You want to get some sort of consistency (I noticed you said she sometimes likes to be swaddled and sometimes doesn't--you need to either swaddle her or don't consistently).

Good luck! You can get there, but it will likely be more of a battle than it was with your son.

Oh, I should mention, do be sure there isn't reflux causing her dislike of sleep.

K. Camille Stevens said...

Hi there! I am hoping you can give me some help, or maybe some ideas. I have a 4 month old son who has been on Babywise since about 3 weeks old, and has pretty much done great on his sleeping schedule, naps, etc. However, over the past two weeks or so, the second half of every day has been a challenge. I will break it down for you a little bit with details. Please keep in mind that recently, he has not been taking his normal naps as they appear here:

7am- Wake, eat (BF)
8 or 8:15- Nap
10:30 or 11:00- Wake, eat (he's been sleeping longer at this nap only in the past few days, and I have been letting him)
12 or 12:30- Nap
1:30 or 2:00- Wake up (sometimes fussing), eat
3 or 3:15- Down for nap
5 or 5:30- Up, eat
6:15 or 6:45- Nap
8:30pm- Wake him, feed, then right to bed.

As you can see, there is a lot of variance in our current schedule, since I've been sensing he is ready for a transition and I've been trying to pay more attention to his cues than the clock. I just don't know why he is doing fine for his first two naps of the day, but poorly for the last two naps. As I write this, he just woke 30 minutes into his evening nap. Any suggestions?

Plowmanators said...

I would just drop the fourth nap. You also might want to move bedtime up. I would start bedtime around 7 PM since he is waking at 7 AM.

You also might want to check out the "4 month sleep problems" blog label.

K. Camille Stevens said...

Thanks so much! I will try that. I guess I've been afraid to put him to bed earlier because I worry that he'll wake up earlier in the morning or in the middle of the night. I guess there is only one way to find out... :)

destina23 said...

Any thoughts on when your little one is on one nap a day and wakes early (like an hour and a half in)? Normally he naps from 12:30-3:30 or 4...He's just about 17 months and just switched to one nap last week.

Plowmanators said...

Did he start sleeping longer and has now gone shorter?

If he slept well at first and is now taking short naps consistently, it is possible he wasn't really ready for two naps. Or he might just need the one nap moved to a bit earlier in the day.

As for what to do in general if they just strangely wake early one day, expect to put him down 30-60 minutes early for bed.

Piper said...

I am at a complete loss. My daughter is a little under 2.5 years old. She has always been an awesome sleeper with just a few issues here an there that we worked out. Until about a month ago she would do a nap from 1-3pm and she would go to bed at 8pm and get up sometime between 7-8am. All of a sudden she just stopped napping. She just sits in there awake and plays and digs around in the closet. I am not opposed to quiet time because she will stay in there and do quiet time, but I am pretty certain she needs her nap because she falls asleep in the car in the evening on the days she does not take a nap. I have tried being very strict about wake up times, up no later than 8am for the day and up at 3pm from her nap no matter what time she went to sleep (today that will mean a whopping 10 minute nap!) so that she is tired for bed time. I seriously have no idea what to do--do kids under 2.5 seriously not need a nap because I really have been unable to believe that she could be needing to go to quiet time--but maybe she does??? Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks!

Plowmanators said...

Piper, no, she still needs to nap.

One possibility is that she might need to go down just a bit later for her nap.

But it might also be her hitting the "two year sleep problems" a bit late. See that post for more on that.

Cielo said...

I was feeding my son all day without any type of routine, fed him to sleep and put him to bed only to have him wake right up and start over again. I was sleep deprived and desperate so I read the only baby book i had at home, Babywise. I had never read it before and didn't have a clue what to expect. It all makes sense!

I just started CIO 5 days ago and it worked wonderfully at night time after just the first night. However, my 5 month old isn't taking daytime naps after CIO. Most of the time he will cry until I get him 1 - 2 hours into CIO (since its time to eat again). When I feed him he falls asleep while eating and I cannot keep him awake during those 15 min or so. He has only cried himself to sleep less than a hand-ful of times during the day in the entire 5 days. He does take short naps while in the car if I go out or while feeding.

When he looks sleepy I change his diaper if needed, close the blinds, turn on the fan, turn on lullaby music and rock him until he looks sleepy. This can take up to 10min since he gets very upset while I'm holding him and he knows its bedtime. Then I hold him still until he starts to close his eyes. He will cry with his eyes shut. Should I put him down when he's crying or wait until he is calm and sleepy? I don't return once I'm gone unless I hear a distressed cry because he usually will get more upset after I leave a second time. He doesn't like swings so i don't have that option. Any help?

Lori said...

Hello,
I am having a hard time getting my 4 week old daughter to sleep through her naps. She is currently on a 3 hour schedule and I have been playing with her wakes times (adjusting from 40, 45, and 50 minutes) to see which will help her sleep through the entire nap. She will CIO for most naps(sometimes I go in after 7-10 minutes to resettle) and fall asleep. However, she wakes up around that 30-45 minutes for at least 1 nap a day (if not most). Sometimes I am able to help her fall asleep by rocking her, however she sometimes wakes up again right after or in another 30 minutes. I have read through all of the other wonderful posts to figure out why she does this but have come to no solution. Please help!:)

Plowmanators said...

Cielo,

I would say that he needs to go down earlier. He is probably overly tired. If you start the routine early enough, he most likely won't start crying during the nap routine.

Plowmanators said...

Lori, have you tried feeding her? 4 weeks is a typical growth spurt age, so she might be waking early because she is hungry.

Caitlin said...

Hi Val,

For several of my 9 week old son's naps, I'll put him down after about an hour and ten minutes (recently upped from fifty-sixty minutes) and he'll just lay in his crib for twenty-forty minutes, happily staring at the curtains (pretty plain curtains; not stimulating) or the wall. Before I lengthened his wake time, he would cry every few minutes during his entire nap after the first 30 or so, and I think this was because he was napping for a few minutes, but his waketime had been too short so he wasn't tired enough to sleep the whole time, and then would wake and get a second wind. Now that I moved it back, once he does fall asleep he'll stay asleep, but it'll take him staring at the wall for a half hour before he falls asleep. Is this an indication that I should move his waketime back even further? Maybe to an hour and a half?

Plowmanators said...

Caitlin, it might be that you moved it up too much. For a 9 week old, even 5 minutes can make the difference. So If you were doing 60 and are now doing 70, maybe 65 is just right.

He might also just need more stimulation while awake. Or he could be getting too much stimulation since he is awake longer.

Me! said...

Hi I need an advice. I have a 10 weeks old, she has a biological clock to wake up at 3.30am everyday so I decided to practice what babywise said, to let her cry a while hoping she can sleep through the night after that. For the first few days it seems to improve. She cried lesser and lesser before went back to sleep again, then after up close to wake time I want her to (7am).
However, it only last for 3-4 days. After that she started to wake up at 2ish crying which she normally last 10 min then when back to sleep again. But she will wake up crying again around 4-5am which most of the time she won't be able to sleep back again by herself. We either need to cuddle her to sleep or put the dummy on her. She is now 11 weeks still the same thing happen. I wonder what I have done wrong. It is very tiring have her wake up crying twice at night. Any advice?

Ida

Plowmanators said...

Ida, she might not be ready to sleep through the night without food yet. I would feed her at one of those times she wakes up.

galagirl77 said...

What should I do. I put my 6 week old son down for naps after approximately 80-90 mins of wake time (he yawns- after I swaddle him- he gets heavy eyes). I put him down awake but seemingly sleepy only to have him wake up and stay awake for 45-60 minutes- mostly quiet- very little fussing- some talking- but mainly he just lays there. He has done this conistantly for the past week- a few times even skipping the naps entirely and the naps he does get can be as little as 20 minutes but probably average 40-45 mins. He is not cranky but I just thought a newborn should sleep more. I guess I am complaining about a happy baby that doesn't sleep! ;-) Any suggestions??

Hannahlook said...

Hi I am Trying BW this week for the first time! My Daughter is 9 weeks old (I just got this book now)
It was very comforting to see other ppl have a baby like mine.
She is already sleeping through the night on her own Nap time is another issue though she does not like to sleep. Im going to try babywise and see how it goes! ;D

Plowmanators said...

galagirl77, you will want to cut waketime back to about 60 minutes.

Plowmanators said...

Good luck Hannahlook!

Bo said...

My 10 week old is on a 7AM wake up schedule, then feeds at 10AM, 1PM, 4PM, 7PM, 10:30PM (dreamfeed). Then he wakes up around 2-3AM to eat. He is taking a while to nurse at times so during his wake time (1 hour long) it is about 30min feeding (as I keep him up) and 30 min in a chair or being held, etc. (He tends to spit up if I lay him down after eating, so I try to keep him upright). Anyways, after he eats at 4PM, I lay him down at 5PM, but then he awakes at 6PM and on and on. I finally get him up at 6:30 (30 min earlier than scheduled). But it is obvious that he is tired and would keep sleeping. I do let him CIO but it just seems that he consistently wants a shorter nap at this time. Do you have any comments/suggestions on this? Sometimes I just feel like I'm not doing this thing right at all!

Me! said...

Since birth I set the morning wake up for my bb at 7am. She just started to sleep through the night about 3.2 months. However, since she started to sleep through the night she always wake up at 6.35am (10pm-6.30am). I try to let her CIO for 10 min or so hoping she will go back to sleep however,she will cry even louder and eventually wake her elder sister up (who's room just opposite hers). Once I pick her up she is more than happy to wake until 7am for the feed.
Any advice what should I do to make sure she can stick to 7am wake time that I want her to wake up?

Plowmanators said...

Bo,

That is totally normal for that 6 PM nap to be short. He might even need to eat at 6:30 then be in bed by 7-7:30.

Plowmanators said...

Me!

See the post "Early morning feedings before waketime" for my advice on that :)

Beth Weaver (Ramsey) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beth Weaver (Ramsey) said...

My baby will be 7 weeks on Monday and will not go to sleep for naps recently. We started babywise 3 days before she turned 6 weeks and did CIO which took about 5 days and she started sleeping 1.5-2 hrs but now nothing. She just kicks, talks, looks around, and stares in her room (I got a video monitor). I don't know what happened or is happening. I have noticed she might start to have reflux (this is new) and maybe this is the reason but we're doing everything to help with that. Also when they have sleep cues how quickly should they go down? We start seeing a yawn and an immediate fussiness and change her diaper, Swaddle, sing twinkle, twinkle, and in bed she goes. (5 min) to get her down. Then I watch her on monitor and no fussing and might be a lot of yawning later, but still no sleep. Its weird! Waketime is 30-35 min for morning nap, then 40-60 for other naps.

Plowmanators said...

Beth, Her waketime length seems okay. Typically if baby was sleeping well and then starts taking a long time to fall asleep, you need to add some waketime length. I add in five minute increments at that age. So that would be my first suggestion, but also be very watchful of the reflux. Good luck!

A Better No Tomorrow said...

Hi there,

I have found your blog very helpful. I really appreciate all of your advice. I was just wondering if you could clarify a few things. I have a 4 month old that sleeps like Brayden did (45 min naps) sometimes shorter. He is STTN about 10.5 hrs. Right now we are on a combo 3/3.5 hr schedule. He cries when he wakes up but once I have him out of the crib he is usually happy.

1- I seen somewhere that you recommend when waking from naps early, counting that time as waketime, and then trying to adjust the schedule throughout the day to get back on track. My question is what if he consistently never sleeps until the next feeding time?
Should I keep messing up the schedule each day or should i aim more for keeping feeding times consistent? Oh and he will never sleep in the swing.

2-Also, you mentioned to a reader that Brayden took an hour to get a full feeding? At 4 months, that is about where we are. My question is, we are starting to feed him rice cereal and are about to start feeding him 3 times per day. By the time I nurse for up to an hour, then feed him cereal for 20 mins or so, its nap time. I feel like he wouldnt be getting play/stimulation time. How did you do it with Brayden?

3-My last question is, I know you recommend waking from naps at feeding time as to stay consistent. Since my child rarely sleeps that long, the times that he does, would you let him sleep longer to get that rest? or still wake him up?

When Brayden started napping better at 6.5 months, did it just sort of happen? And since he didnt nap well, how did you know when to move him to a 4 hour schedule? Or did you just wait until he was older and slept better?

Sorry to throw so many questions at you. I really appreciate your time and advice!

Kandice

Plowmanators said...

A Better No Tomorrow,

1-I would either change your schedule to account for the 45 minute naps or just keep feeding times the same (which might be the same solution).

2-He took that long, but not at four months. At three months he cut it back...I can't remember if it was to 40 minutes or 30 at that point. But by four months he was at 30. Be really careful that your son is not getting little cat naps while he is "nursing." My guess is you think he is eating but he is taking little power naps.

3-You could let him go an extra 30 minutes but I wouldn't go more than that.

4-Yes, the napping really started all of a sudden, but he was finally in a room to sleep rather than just a "studio" apartment situation. Plus he was in a nice high chair and would eat more food at one sitting.

We moved to a four hour schedule after he started sleeping 2 hours. So he was up for two hours and slept for 2 hours.

Tim Brown said...

Hi,first of all I have found your blog to be a huge help and encouragment. There are many times where it has helped me get through a rough day, so many thanks for all the work you have put into.
We did Babywise with our first son starting at 6 weeks, and he caught on very well. With our second son we started from day one, but things with him have been very difficult. He is now 11 weeks old and does a decent job sleeping at night, usually waking up to eat once around 4am. He is still getting a dream feed between 10-11pm and we are on a 3hr schedule with him. The real issue we are having are with his naps. This has been an issue basically since he was two weeks old. I have gone over the nap posts many times, but I'm still not sure what to do. I have cut his waketime back to 40 minutes, elimiated him looking at any toys that blink, make music, or are overly stimulated, tried feeding him each time he woke up early. I put him down at the same times each day, swaddled in a dark room, with a fan going for white noise. He gets put down without a pacifer. He does a good job putting himself to sleep intiallly, but he often wakes after only 45min. to an hour and can't put himself back to sleep. He is still tired because if I give him a pacifer he closes his eyes and tries to go back to sleep. My real question is can you do CIO when they are still being fully swaddled? I'm to the point where I don't know what else to try, but wasn't sure if this was a good option. I've tried putting him in a swing, but he usually fights sleep there too, just looking around and finally maybe falling asleep for 15 to 20 more minutes, but this can take up to 30 minutes before this happens. I should also mention that he has reflux, and is on prilosec. He orginally was on Zantac, but we switched medications about two weeks ago and saw huge improvements in him. Any suggestions you have would be very much appreciated.

heatherbre said...

From birth with our 9 month baby we have followed baby-wise and she has followed the sleeping examples to a T! She is sleeping 12 hours at night, 2 naps during the day (just last week given up her 3rd nap), but since giving up her 3rd nap is only sleeping 1 hour and 15-20 minutes during her 2 naps. It doesn't seem to be a 45 minute intruder or hunger issue (tried feeding her and putting her back down, but she just talks to herself). Not sure if I should leave her for 1 1/2 - 2 hours (she is relatively happy in her bed) and see if she's just in the habbit of waking up or if she just won't be a long napper. I just don't feel that less than 1 1/2 hours is a long enough nap...but maybe I'm wrong!

Enjoy your blog so much and it is such a blessing!!!

Plowmanators said...

Tim Brown, before you mentioned reflux, I was going to suggest you look into possible pain.

Unfortunately, reflux really makes sleep more difficult for baby. Reflux babies do not sleep as well as babies without reflux. Once you get meds down, things should get a lot better. Kaitlyn had reflux and stayed on a 3 hour schedule until 7 months and dropped the dreamfeed at 7 months also.

katie092306 said...

Hi,

My daughter will be six weeks old tomorrow. She has done really well adjusting to the schedule I have set up for her, but I have one little concern and was wanting to seek some advice. She sleeps so well in the mornings into the afternoons... as evening rolls around, she seems to sleep less and less. Between her 7 and 10 o'clock feedings, she doesn't ever seem to want to sleep. Most evenings when we try to put her down, she fusses until we decide to pick her up again... it's not a huge deal for us to just hang out with her during this time because our son is already asleep and it actually gives us some one on one time with her. She then sleeps so well during the night, normally only waking once and then needing to be woken up around 7 a.m. After her 7 a.m. feeding, it's as if she wants to go right back to sleep... I have to really work to get her to stay awake for even 45 minutes. She will then sleep for a couple hours and I normally always have to wake her up for her next feeding. It seems like she has things a little mixed up-- what I mean is that she doesn't want to go to sleep between 7 and 10 in the evening, but then wants to keep on sleeping between 7 and 10 in the morning. Is there anything that I can be doing differently to help adjust this? I'm not overly concerned because I sometimes enjoy this time in the evening with her and I know that she will eventually drop that late evening feeding, which will get rid of the problem all together. I remember my son having this same issue! He would struggle to sleep between 7 and 10 in the evening as well. My other question-- Do you think it's okay if this is just what my little one does? Do you think I should work that hard to correct it-- possibly by working harder to keep her awake in the mornings?

Thanks so much! Appreciate using this blog as a resource for implementing babywise!

KimcheeMac said...

I have a seven-week old who is now sleeping better at night -- about 4.5 hours between feedings. The problem now is that she's been sleeping less well for naps, either having a difficult time falling asleep or waking early. I have also resorted to feeding her when she starts to fuss when I try to put her down since I can't determine whether she's going through a growth spurt or just being fussy. I'm trying to establish the eat, play, nap routine but when she appears tired, I swaddle her and her eyes grow wide again. If I wait for her to become drowsy again after swaddling, she inevitably just become fussy, at which point I try feeding her, in case she may be hungry. She usually eats about 5 minutes at this point then falls asleep at the breast. Can you help me determine whether she's going through a growth spurt or whether she's using the breast as a sleep prop? I've tried a pacifier several times but she just hasn't gotten the hang of that yet.

Thank you!

KimcheeMac said...

By the way (if relevant), a full feeding for her is usually ten minutes per side with ten minutes of burping after each side.

Thanks, again, for the guidance!

Plowmanators said...

Heatherbre, I would leave her for all of nap time since she is happy. It could be she is learning a new skill, teething, etc. It could also be that she needs her waketime length adjusted.

Plowmanators said...

Katie,

It might be witching hour--see my post on that. If it is witching hour, I wouldn't worry about it.

It is totally normal for her be sleepy in the morning. My kids all had their shortest waketime of the day in the morning.

If the evening thing isn't due to witching hour, I personally would make sure bedtime is where I wanted it to be by 3 months old. Sleep prior to midnight is superior to sleep afer midnight--so I do think it is important to have an early bedtime.

Plowmanators said...

KimCheemac,

It sounds like it is not a growth spurt. It sounds to me like she is using nursing as her sleep prop. During a growth spurt, she should still take a nap between feedings--it would just be short.

Amanda said...

My baby just woke up from a nap crying 45 minutes early before the next feeding time. We are currently in the CIO learning process. I was not sure what I was supposed to do so I let him cry for 15 minutes then I caved and went in there. He didn't seem to be hungry or need to burp, but just content once he was picked up. At the time I did not know this. Should I have let him cry longer and how much longer? At what point do I go get him? What if he only woke say 30 or even 15 minutes early? I am trying to do the CIO method correctly, and I really am unsure what I'm supposed to do when he wakes early from naps. I want to be consistent and not confuse him into thinking he'll be picked up sometimes and other times not. If I get him out of his crib from a nap, there is no napping the rest of it in a swing or any place else. He's wide awake. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Virginia said...

Hi, I am doing babywise, my girl is 11 weeks old and she started having issues a few weeks ago sleeping longer the 45 min through her naps. I tried CIO and she just got worse! I didn't know what to do! At the same time she was having pollen allergies and fussing while eating which she had never done before. I got some gripe water and it did the trick. What I am assuming is that she was having acid reflux and that was waking her up and she couldn't transition because she was uncomfortable. So for those who have the problem of them waking up early you can try gripe water and see if it helps. I use mommy bliss< really any gripe water with sodium bicarbonate, it neutralizes the acid in the stomach. If it doesn't work at least you know its not because of pain or discomfort due to mild acid reflux.

Matt, Jennie, and Noelle Ours said...

Hi - We did bbw with first child, but with second one - a boy - things are already much different at two weeks =) He was so sleepy the first two weeks he went to bed after feedings or would even go to sleep drowsy but awake - just nod off as newborns do. But the past two days I feel we are already starting not good habits. I'm looking for drowsy cues and will put him down for nap - drowsy but awake. He cries - he still needs help and we try a couple of more times. By then he's overtired. He's rooting like he's hungry. I give him pacifier but then every time it falls out he's awake and crying again. Then by the time all that's over it's been 2 hrs so I feed him cause he's probably legitimatley hungry by now and overtired. Then he sleeps. So it's working against Eat - Wake - Sleep. Our daughter was more "textbook" per se. Any advice on how to help these first few weeks without starting habits we want to later break, but also make sure he gets sufficient rest. Thanks!

Kristin Marie said...

My daughter is approaching 12 weeks in a couple of days, and at 9 weeks I began training her to sleep past 5:30 a.m. (that's the time she was consistently waking every day). For about 10-12 days she was doing great, sleeping until I woke her up at 7:30 or 8:00 a.m., with her late evening feeding happening between 10:30 and 11:00, so I know she's capable of going that long at night. All of a sudden this week for the last 3 nights she started waking at 5:30 again. If I go in there and put her pacifier in, she usually goes back to sleep, but will wake at 6:30 and then again at her breakfast time. What do you suggest? I don't want to feed her at 5:30 anymore, as I know she doesn't truly need it.

Also, she still wakes about 30-45 minutes into her naps whether I do a 3 or a 3.5 hour schedule. She does usually go back to sleep and some days she does perfect (not waking at all), but I would say more often than not she's doing this. AHHHH! I just want to have more predictable days. I want to cry sometimes. I know that progress is a spiral and I know she's still a newborn, but I just need to know that it's going to get better.

Babywise says to not lengthen the times between feedings until they are sleeping 9-10 hours at night, so I'm just going to stick with a basic 3 hour routine until this happens. Technically she sleeps through the night, I just want it to be until her first morning feeding.

Thanks!

ElyseBanks said...

I have just recently found your blog and I have been reading it like a maniac! Thank you so much for taking the time to write all these helpful blogs and taking precious time out of your day to respond to questions!
My son just turned 7 weeks and I feel like I have been doing most things right, but we can't seem to put him on a schedule.
He wakes up early from his nap a lot. Recently, I discovered that I have been doing wake time way to long (thanks to your blog), so he has wake time (including feeding) for 60 minutes. After I did that one time, he slept for 2 hours and it was wonderfully because he NEVER sleeps that long. I thought I figured it out, but at the next feeding, I did the same thing, but he woke up after only sleeping for 1 hour (which put him on a 2 hour schedule). For the rest of the day/night he did the same thing... Kept waking up after one hour. And he acts like he is starving. One feeding, I was able to hold him off for 30 minutes by putting him in his swing.
I exclusively pump, since I had issues where he would want to nurse for over an hour and a half. I just couldn't do that. So I give him pumped breast milk during the day and formula at night. I believe I give him full feelings because I feed him until he refuses to eat anymore.
With all that said, I don't know what to do since he is unpredictable In waking up.
Do I let him cry until 2.5 hours? And then I have no idea how to get him on a 3 hour schedule which is basically what I want.
Honestly, I just want to know what you would do. Would you let him CIO?
I don't have problems putting him down. He always falls asleep on his own, but it's the waking up early and pushing for a 2 hour schedule.
Thanks for reading!

ElyseBanks said...

Again.. :)
This morning I fed him and put him down by 45 minutes, then he woke up AGAIN after 1 hour. I don't want him on a 2 hour schedule. I don't want to it him in the swing every time or feed him before 3 hours (although I'd be willing to except 2.5 hours at this point).

HELP! :)

Plus, on a side note, during your middle of the night feelings, do you burp your baby and/or change him/her or just put him/her down?

Julie said...

I have been letting my 2 month old cry it out and he rarely gets more than an hour of sleep during his naps and will sometimes cry for the duration of his nap. I am just wondering how long it has taken other moms for their babies to start sleeping longer/better during their naps. I have been at this for over 2 weeks and am worried he won't be able to self-soothe during his naps.

diana said...

I have tried to read through the comments to see if anyone else has the same question, but there are a lot!! My 9 week old daughter frequently has short naps. I work really hard to try to get her down in time, but sometimes she has a hard time settling down, gets overtired, then takes a long time to fall asleep or awakens early. If after 15 minutes she hasn't fallen asleep, I go in and help her because I'm not die-hard sleep training and I want her to get rest since she is still really young. Sometimes, I try to feed her if she seems hungry, so my question is this - if baby wakes early from a nap and I feed her, do I put her back down to finish the nap, or do I consider that as a feeding and start the cycle over? I realize this would depend on how close to feeding time we are anyway, but sometimes it can be an hour away and I am unsure with how to proceed. Often, I put her back down because she seems so sleepy and then adjust the next feeding back a bit. Would you agree with this solution? Thanks.

Brian and Beth Jones said...

I have a 11 day old and we have started babywise pretty much from the 3rd day on. He is really well, but I find that he wakes 1 hour or 45 min before his next feed in the later evenings. Sometimes after his "bed time" sleep and right before his dream feed. If my husband tries to sooth him, it doesn't work for long because my little guy starts looking to eat and will not calm down. This then pushes the dream feed too early and I end up waking up twice in the middle of the night for a feeding, instead of once. Any ideas or suggestions?

KarveYourBody said...

As I write this my 12 week old son is sitting in his swing screaming his head off. He does NOT sleep for naps. He will sometimes go down and not cry, but he won't sleep either. Then, after about an hour, he starts to scream, but he still hasn't slept at all for his nap. Even if he does sleep, it is only for 30 to 45 minutes max. I think he slept for 55 minutes ONCE for a nap, but I can tell that by the end of the day (closer to 6pm or so) he is extremely overtired. I have tried putting him down for naps when he shows sleep cues, I have tried putting him down for a nap after he's been up for 90 minutes even if he isn't showing sleep cues, but either way he just won't sleep for nap times during the day! I follow the "wake/feed/sleep" schedule, but I feel like it's a futile attempt since he's just going through the motions for naptime and not actually getting any sleep!!!!!

Mary Abbott said...

Thanks so much for your websitw my first was a babywise success. I am now trying to train my 4 wek old. He goes down for some naps like a dream abd I often have to wake him for feeds. But lately he has started to refuse to go to sleep for some naps. He will start off happy and awake. I put him down after his awake time ( usually 30 mins) and he will lie there awake for about 15 mins. Then he will start to whimper on and off leading to full on screaming til his next feed and this sometimes continues for the next cycle or two. He gets himself so overtired yesterday he didnt sleep from 3pm til 1am! I tried pacifier, holing him etc after letting him cio for a while which calms him but he still doesnt sleep! Should i try jst leaving him? He has started again today and im so exhausted! Please help!

Mia Jeannine said...

I have a 2 1/2 week old little boy (our first) and my husband and I have heard so many success stories about BabyWise we decided to use it in our home. He sleeps great at night, wakes up for his feedings and is usually not drowsy while nursing - he basically nurses for a full 25 minutes every time. But, he seems to really hate naps.

He will cry and cry for the entire nap and if we check on him things just get worse. (We make sure he has a clean diaper, is not hungry, and nothing is wrong) Since we focused more on full feedings for the first 2 weeks those are going smoothly but now we are trying to get him to fall asleep, stay asleep and self sooth.

I have seen most of your nap and wake time posts and I have tried to shorten his wake time, keep him less stimulated and leave him to CIO but he doesn't seem to be getting the hang of it and still seems very alert when we put him down even though he has been yawning. The book makes it seem as if this is an easier task than we have been dealing with.

Is it normal for them to cry through entire naps while sleep training? And how long does sleep training take for the average BW baby?

MiaJeannine

Jacqueline Vandenberg said...

I have a 3 month old boy, who's naps have become a nightmare. I first started sleep training at 6 week,i swaddled him and let him cry, within 2 days he would only cry max 10min.and then sleeping 2 1\2-3 hrs. When he was 9 weeks he slept through the night (10-12hrs) and still does. But the last 2 week's his naps r getting worse. At first he would wake up but with patting him circa,few min he would go back to sleep till he wasn't tired, a few days later he would only go back to sleep for another 1/2-1 he but still be tired. But then he would have a good afternoon nap.it kept getting worse unroll the last couple days I can barely get him to sleep, he is still swaddled but often when I check on him before I go to bed he no longer is but still sleeps till morning. I have tried crying it out, and by today he cries for an he, I do go in a few times to calm him down but after an hr I'll take him out because I can. Only hear him cry for so long. I don't think anything is,wrong because as soon as he realizes I am there he instantly stops and will smile until I leave then cry again. If I take him out he'll play perfectly unfilled he realizes that he is actually quiet tired. What do I do... I have tried everything I can think of..

Bridget Lolli said...

My husband and I have heard many success stories about Babywise so we decided to do it ourselves. So far our 3 week old has been doing pretty well with it. The past few days she seems to wake early only from one of her afternoon naps at exactly 3:00 on the dot. We started CIO this week because we realized if you check on her, she cries more. All of her other naps she doesn't have a problem with. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to why she would wake at 3:00 after only napping for 20-30 minutes? For our schedule, she eats at 4:00 and she seems to do fine with the schedule throughout the rest of the day.

corrielin said...

My little guy turns 3 mo tomorrow and he has always had a hard time staying asleep for naps. I've played with shorter awake times, longer awake times, more stimulation, less, warmer clothes, cooler clothes...and nothing seems to really make a difference. We've been doing CIO since 3 weeks and he started doing better for a while, then the past month he seems to be crying more again when I put him down (off and on) and almost always wakes after 35-45 minutes. If I put him in the swing for a nap (if I just really need a break) he will often sleep 2+ hours, and usually I have to wake him. But when I put him in bed he almost always wakes early and won't settle himself down. Any ideas? I am going crazy with this

Lsn said...

My little guy is 8weeks old. He is generally a great sleeper and eater. His routine is fairly good. But lately he has been having a hard time staying down for his two early naps. He wakes up with some crying. We have done CIO and he never seems to settled and trust me he's done it for a LONG time over multiple days

His normal routine is wake 6 am feed then back down by 7:30-8. He would be up by 10 am feed and back down by 11:30-12. Up again at 2 feed then back down by 3:30. He will have. A big sleep now until almost 6 pm feed bath then bed by 7:30. Dream feed at 11 pm then hopefully stay asleep until 6 am.
Currently he has been having a hard time making until 6 am he wakes up between 4:30-5:30. We can usually soothe him back down with soother and shhh. His morning nap at 7:30 has been getting shorter and he wakes up early. Again crying and not wanting to go back to sleep. If I get him up he is pleasant and calm. Just NOT tired. He is not looking to eat until his regular time. He does te same when I out him down at 11:30. The rest of the day and night are fine.
He's eating fine pleasant attitude etc. pee and poop normal.
My concern is that according to baby wise he should be waking up at feeding time. And not having wake time before and after his feeding.
I've tried keeping him up little longer and he still wakes up early. Sometimes after 1/2 hr or 1 hr. other days he falls into his routine great! But it's not as often as it should be.
Help am I doing something wrong? I just would like him to sleep eat wake. NOT sleep wake eat wake sleep.
Thankyou!
Lsn

Lsn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lsn said...

Oh I should mention that the routine he's in was something he fell into so we kept it going.
Lsn

Valerie Plowman said...

Lsn, His waketime length is quite long for an 8 week old--even now at 10-11 weeks, he should be up for 60-90 minutes before his first nap. The first waketime is the shortest of the day. See my post on optimal waketime length and try changing that to see if it fixes it. Good luck!

Valerie Plowman said...

corrielin,

It might be that he is a chronic short napper. See my posts on the 45 minute intruder. Also see the posts on Naps: Troubleshooting.

Lsn said...

Thankyou for your advice. We have changed him back to a 3 hr routine starting st 6 am and last feed at 6 pm. We dream feed at 10:30 pm. He does much better on this routine:)! Although he doesn't quite make it to 6 am. Sometimes he's up at 4:30 am. I usually give him. Few ounces and then back to bed. We then start our day At 6:30 and adjust to finish at 6 pm.
Also if he wakes early from his naps and is wide awake. I put him in his swing lights out and quiet until next feed time. He seems content and occasionally falls back to sleep.
Does this sound ok?
Also the last two nights he's woken fully when I get him up for DF but settles during the feed and goes back to sleep. Is this ok? We were feeding at 8:30 pm then again at 10:30 but he would never wake for 8:30 and was eating te same amount of ounces in two feeds as in te one at 10:30. So I dropped te 8:30.

Ms. Freeman said...

Hi I have a question about naps. Is it more important to stay on schedule with feedings. Reading baby wise they suggest don't let your baby get into a wake feed sleep routine so if he wakes early from his nap should I feed him so he is on a feed wake sleep schedule or wait the 30 minutes to his next feeding to stay on that schedule?

Valerie Plowman said...

It depends on why baby woke early. If baby woke early due to hunger, feed. If baby woke early for a reason other than hunger, it is good to wait until as close to feeding time as possible so baby's metabolism gets used to eating at the same times each day.

You can see my post eat/wake/sleep schedule for more.

Mrs. Jirschele said...

Hi Val. First, I would like to say thank you so much for your blog. It has been a lifesaver! I am a first time mom at my wit’s end. My son is four months old today and we have been following Babywise since birth. Naps are an issue. He has been waking early from naps since he was three weeks old. Every day, without fail, he wakes from his naps within 20-45 minutes (usually 30). At this point he appears to be wide awake and has trouble falling back to sleep, although I know he is still tired. The only nap he will sometimes sleep through is the final nap of the day. I’m almost certain that he just can’t make it through the transition. I put him to bed in his crib where he falls asleep on his own, still with some protest. When he wakes, I give him 10-15 minutes to see if there is any chance he’ll fall back to sleep. When he doesn’t, I move him to the swing to finish his nap. Once in the swing he will usually fall asleep in 10-20 minutes and sleep for the remainder of his nap. I almost always have to wake him for the next feeding. I feel like I have exhausted every option to get him to sleep past 40 minutes. I have attempted longer waketime, shorter waketime, wake-to-sleep, repeating his bedtime routine, CIO, etc. He has cried until the next feeding. Very rarely he will fall back asleep after CIO but will only sleep for about 10 minutes before waking again, even more agitated than before. I know he is still tired but can’t seem to calm down. Also, optimal waketimes never seem to be consistent. What works one day will crash and burn the next. With possible teething and four month sleep problems on top of his normal napping issues, I’m not sure where to go from here. Do I keep going as I am? What do you suggest? I know you say 3-4 months is a bit young for CIO after waking early. I am afraid to compromise his nighttime sleep by letting him take 30 minute naps during the day, but I also don’t want him reliant on the swing. This is a frustrating situation for a schedule-oriented person.

Mrs. Jirschele said...

Update to my 2/10/14 post
Hi Val. I know we’ve all experienced a time when you have an illness or injury, and you just know you’re sick, but hem and haw about going to the doctor because you’re not sure if it’s really something that needs a doctor or if it will run its course if given time. Finally, you decide to make an appointment to see the doctor, and the minute you step into the examining room the symptoms have all but disappeared and you feel silly for even being there. Well that is how I feel right now. My son struggled with waking early from naps since he was three weeks old. I kept thinking he would outgrow them, but at 18 weeks he was still taking short naps so I decided to write to you for help.

The day after I wrote my post, my son slept for 1 hour, 15 min. in his own crib for his first nap. This was unheard of for him! I couldn’t believe it. But the success was short-lived because the next day and a half he continued his short naps and I moved him to the swing to finish them out. Sometimes he went back to sleep, sometimes not. At this point the swing was even starting to lose its effectiveness. The second day, naps one and two were short, even with the swing. I was so fed up at this point. I decided for his third nap to quit the swing cold turkey, and we haven’t looked back since.

Since I stopped using the swing, my son’s naps have been progressively spiraling in the right direction. I simply stopped interfering, and let him CIO/talk/work through transitions. He has taken several naps longer than an hour. He has fallen back to sleep, and stayed asleep, after waking early. At first, it was only the first nap and the fourth nap of the day. Now, his second or third naps are also getting longer occasionally. He still has plenty of bad naps, but is slowly moving toward the better. Also, during this time he also learned to roll from back to tummy and found his thumb. I think this really helps him self-soothe at transitions. The idea of him sleeping on his tummy really makes me uneasy, but every time I flip him he just rolls right back to his tummy and pops his thumb in his mouth. I have to admit that this has helped him sleep better. I am also trying to drop the fourth nap, but am struggling because this is his longest/best nap of the day. He’s so tired but I know it’s disrupting his other naps.

Thank you so much for your blog. I feel like my son is finally heading in the right direction thanks to the many resources you offer.

Valerie Plowman said...

I am glad you are seeing success! And I am glad you shared what worked for you. It is helpful to others.

Sarah Dai said...

Hi! Thank you so much for having this blog! My son is 9 weeks old and we've been having sleep problems lately. For the first six weeks, he was great and slept through the night with no problems. We just woke him up for night feedings and he went right to bed! From weeks 6 to 8, we realized he was having a growth spurt, and became a totally different baby. He forgot how to fall asleep by himself for both naps and at night. Since we experienced the 45-minute intruder, we just adjusted his feeding times. Now it's week 9 and it's hit or miss with the naps and sleep times. My son will rarely fall asleep immediately at his bed time, and most nights he will cry from 7 to 10pm and then finally get knocked out until 7am. We tried the CIO method to help him fall asleep by himself between the hours of 7 to 10pm, but it's been going on for about 8 days and he'll still cry several times between those hours off and on. Sometimes we have to intervene and comfort him before the 15 minute mark because we noticed his cries are more hysterical or we think something is wrong. We comfort him and put him back to bed, and most of the time, he starts to cry again if he wakes up. We also noticed he has a difficult time falling asleep for his afternoon naps. He does well with his morning naps though!~ He takes a total of 4 naps per day, but the afternoon naps are a lot shorter because he seems to wake up earlier from them.

We know that if our son naps well, he'll sleep well at night, but we don't know how to help him nap better in the afternoon. Any advice would be helpful!~

Sarah Dai said...

Hi! Thank you so much for having this blog! My son is 9 weeks old and we've been having sleep problems lately. For the first six weeks, he was great and slept through the night with no problems. We just woke him up for night feedings and he went right to bed! From weeks 6 to 8, we realized he was having a growth spurt, and became a totally different baby. He forgot how to fall asleep by himself for both naps and at night. Since we experienced the 45-minute intruder, we just adjusted his feeding times. Now it's week 9 and it's hit or miss with the naps and sleep times. My son will rarely fall asleep immediately at his bed time, and most nights he will cry from 7 to 10pm and then finally get knocked out until 7am. We tried the CIO method to help him fall asleep by himself between the hours of 7 to 10pm, but it's been going on for about 8 days and he'll still cry several times between those hours off and on. Sometimes we have to intervene and comfort him before the 15 minute mark because we noticed his cries are more hysterical or we think something is wrong. We comfort him and put him back to bed, and most of the time, he starts to cry again if he wakes up. We also noticed he has a difficult time falling asleep for his afternoon naps. He does well with his morning naps though!~ He takes a total of 4 naps per day, but the afternoon naps are a lot shorter because he seems to wake up earlier from them.

We know that if our son naps well, he'll sleep well at night, but we don't know how to help him nap better in the afternoon. Any advice would be helpful!~

Valerie Plowman said...

Are you doing sleep training in the day naps also or just at night?

Sarah Dai said...

We just recently started day time sleep training, too, last week. Any suggestions on how to help our son?

Valerie Plowman said...

I have many posts with general directions. If you are just starting bw

LinkWithin

Related Posts with Thumbnails

blog advertising is good for you